Blizzard's Overwatch Catch-All

Also, role lock works swimmingly in QP, IMO. We had plenty of opportunity to counterpick and react to the opponents. Even got to play the same, closely matched team a couple games in a row. Ton of fun without the character pressure. Heck, I even played Mei for the first time voluntarily (not Mystery/random) in a year or two, because the Genji was a royal PITA. I wasn't good, but perhaps effective enough that they eventually swapped off.

bhchrist wrote:

Also, role lock works swimmingly in QP, IMO. We had plenty of opportunity to counterpick and react to the opponents. Even got to play the same, closely matched team a couple games in a row. Ton of fun without the character pressure. Heck, I even played Mei for the first time voluntarily (not Mystery/random) in a year or two, because the Genji was a royal PITA. I wasn't good, but perhaps effective enough that they eventually swapped off.

I still think it should be 1+:1+:1+, but I do like the general ease of the role chosing.

I'm really enjoying role queue for Competitive (as a solo it really seems to help because everyone knows what they are signing up for). I'm finding it less good for QP where i find myself wanting to swap role to cover a weakpoint. Often it's a lack of effective DPS and normally I'd swap to DPS to add some firepower but can't do that anymore

EvilDolphin wrote:

I'm really enjoying role queue for Competitive (as a solo it really seems to help because everyone knows what they are signing up for). I'm finding it less good for QP where i find myself wanting to swap role to cover a weakpoint. Often it's a lack of effective DPS and normally I'd swap to DPS to add some firepower but can't do that anymore :)

Just switch to Sigma. He is basically DPS. Or Zen//Moira if you're healing.

Overwatch Season 2 playoffs are going on this weekend

Blizzard has made a series of animated shorts for each team which has made it to the playoffs.

Although I've never really watched much anime, someone stitched all of the videos together into an awesome anime-style intro

I've actually enjoyed role queue. I now find myself queuing for comp almost as default rather than QP, which is a true change for me who usually could only be bothered to complete placements if anything in previous seasons.

I got placed quite low in support and tank -- silver -- and haven't bothered with my DPS placements yet. I've actually had decent success off-tanking as Zarya. With the damage calculation change on the beam for Zarya and Sym they're pretty strong feeling to me. Had a run of 4 straight tank wins yesterday bringing me to the cusp of gold by running mostly Zarya and a bit of D.Va late in one. I still need to work on my bubble management to stop with some useless ones, but even with imperfect bubbles I keep decent energy and finished all 4 of those games with at least 3 golds and usually 4.

I plan to add some Doomfist into my DPS roster given how suffocating he can be in the right hands and against the right comps.

Oof. Sorry for coming with such negativity last night. I was just in a bad mood. Thanks for being understanding with me.

I've found a new awful trolling trend in Overwatch since role queue started. Because you can't flex into another role, I've seen a few duo's easily throwing games by both going healer and not healing.

It sucks.

hbi2k wrote:

Oof. Sorry for coming with such negativity last night. I was just in a bad mood. Thanks for being understanding with me.

All good.

Valmorian wrote:

I've found a new awful trolling trend in Overwatch since role queue started. Because you can't flex into another role, I've seen a few duo's easily throwing games by both going healer and not healing.

It sucks.

I hope folks are reporting people who behave like this.

I usually put a polite message in chat asking the other team to report them as well. It seems to work, I often get those "action was taken against someone you reported" messages

More teleport flank BS on Anubis

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/XbjQvjo.png)

Took to a private mach for some Yo Ho Hoverwatch.

I did not get a screenie of the Wrecking Ball/Roadhog/Torbjorn/Junkrat/Ana/Baptiste pirate themed crew that we took to RQ (we were destroyed), but maybe someone else did.

So I kind of ignored role queue during all of the betas, so my first chance to play in RQ happened a couple of nights ago. I wasn't a fan of the idea when all the YouTube "professional" meta commentators were begging for it over a year ago and I have to admit, I'm still really not much of a fan of it now. I'll try to give it another chance, but one of the biggest problems that I suddenly realized is that I can no longer pick my character based on the map anymore, which is what I used to do in regular QP.

So a lot of times it would go like this, if the map was control I would almost always pick Mei or Sym, because they're super strong on those maps for various reasons. I could use my Mei shortcuts on Oasis, or set up turrets high up above the point in Nepal. Adversely, on maps like Dorado or Numbani I'm generally going to go something like Moira because long distances there are bad for my damage favorites, and her healing can be really strong there. And now, I just can't do that. If I'm queued as healer and Oasis (one of my favorite map sets) comes up, too bad I'm healing.

Likewise, I'm starting to feel a bit of "tryhard" anxiety with RQ. Like, if I pick damage I feel like I NEED to be a master of ALL damage characters, which I'm not. I hate hitscan. I have never been good at headshots. But when I queued for damage, and I picked Mei, and we got a map that favored hitscan, I felt like I wasn't pulling my weight. It felt awful. So I then queued for healing the rest of the night since those characters are slightly less map dependent.

But like, I don't know, it didn't feel good. I feel good with only a handful of characters and I'm worried that if I choose the wrong role and none of those characters are viable for the maps played, I'm just going to bring everyone else down. That's a little too much pressure for what's supposed to be the "casual" mode of the game.

Like I said, I'm going to give it another shot, but so far I'm not a fan of Role Queue. Hopefully, I can find my groove with it, but so far I am not liking it. It's likely, I may take a break from Overwatch after Borderlands 3 comes out.

Either way, I've been dealing with these issues for a bit and I wanted to give my two cents. Everyone can now go back to posting videos and talking smack.

How does roll queue work? Do you select that role you want to play then search for a game or is it a mad scramble once the character select loads? I assume it's the former, if so, has that increased queue times?

^^

Yeah, I'm having the same problems, especially when it comes to DPS selection. It's stressful queuing as DPS knowing that I can't just ask a teammate to switch to hitscan if one is needed and flex to cover whatever role they're abandoning to do so. Likewise, if our main tank is playing Rein but it turns out what we REALLY need is a Winston to shut down the enemy snipers, I can't offer to switch from healer or DPS if they'll take over what I'm doing.

I get the advantages to the role queue system, and I certainly don't miss trying to solo tank or heal when asshole pubbies go quad DPS and everybody refuses to switch, but considering that I usually only play QP with Goodjers who are friendly and willing to swap around anyway, I'm really not feeling the lack of flexibility.

What it comes down to is that there's no particular correlation in the skills required to play characters within a given role. Baptiste has more in common mechanically with Soldier than with Mercy or Moira, and being able to swap mid-match to one but not the other is very limiting.

Some kind of system where you can swap roles with another player mid-match while both of you are in spawn would do a lot to address the drawbacks of the system while keeping the advantages. It would probably make calculating role-specific SR a pain for the game, but there have to be solutions to that.

hbi2k wrote:

^^
Some kind of system where you can swap roles with another player mid-match while both of you are in spawn would do a lot to address the drawbacks of the system while keeping the advantages. It would probably make calculating role-specific SR a pain for the game, but there have to be solutions to that.

That would be fine in QP but absolutely awful in comp. Role lock has cut down toxicity in comp quite a lot for me. Before, whenever things weren't going well someone would complain and tell the dps they were taking dps. Then we'd have 2 people arguing and 3 dps. People are still asked to swap to a different dps but that's it. It's decreased toxicity quite a bit and increased teamwork as well. DPS still get a lot of undeserved blame but it is so much more enjoyable overall compared to what was there before.

Bonus for me. I can play DPS every single game if I want. Which, despite not playing much during comp, is my highest SR role.

Crimeny wrote:

...Likewise, I'm starting to feel a bit of "tryhard" anxiety with RQ. Like, if I pick damage I feel like I NEED to be a master of ALL damage characters, which I'm not. I hate hitscan. I have never been good at headshots. But when I queued for damage, and I picked Mei, and we got a map that favored hitscan, I felt like I wasn't pulling my weight. It felt awful. So I then queued for healing the rest of the night since those characters are slightly less map dependent....

I (and others) are a lot like you in the characters we play, with a heavy focus on non-hit scan, and a support and tank emphasis. I get everything you are saying, though I don't hate hit scan, I am just not particularly good at it. I would rarely play damage as I always figured there was someone better at it than me. That is still true, but RQ has actually been freeing for my rather than anxiety producing. I'm going to play this role for the game, so might as well try things rather than feel the stress of asking someone to switch with me.

It has gotten me to play characters I haven't played in a long time. Had a great first map on McCree (followed by two atrocious maps). It has been rediscovering OW from a different positional and play perspective. I think part of it is knowing that others are doing the same. Hell, Ranalin has been playing Rein! Personally, I think that is kinda cool. Sure, we will have some games that our comp is just not cut out for the map or the opponent, but so be it. I have enjoyed looking at the line-ups and finding a character that will compliment (just not Ball or Fist - pretty my only two can't plays at this point).

It was good playing Mei and asking others for advice while in game. I know your Mei is solid and I tried to do similar things to worse ends, but it seemed to help more than hurt and that felt good.

In the end, we will all have our own reactions. I think Homer and mine are pretty similar and I have viewed it as a very good thing overall, the same way I viewed the limitation to a single hero when they changed that. I think as they have more time and data to analyze, it will continue to improve.

EvilHomer3k wrote:

Before, whenever things weren't going well someone would complain and tell the dps they were taking dps. Then we'd have 2 people arguing and 3 dps. People are still asked to swap to a different dps but that's it. It's decreased toxicity quite a bit and increased teamwork as well.

It would have to require both parties to consent to the swap of course; if I can just "take" dps from you, then we're right back where we started.

It's just frustrating if I queue DPS intending to play Mei / Reaper / Sym / Junk / whatever and wind up on a map that heavily favors Widow. I would like nothing more than to yield the DPS slot to someone with better sniping skills than I have, but I'm artificially prevented from doing so because some asshole in some other match might be slightly more of an asshole if that feature were present.

Feels like a bad reason to prevent those of us who want to play the game the way it was intended to be played-- with hero swaps when necessary-- from doing so.

hbi2k wrote:
EvilHomer3k wrote:

Before, whenever things weren't going well someone would complain and tell the dps they were taking dps. Then we'd have 2 people arguing and 3 dps. People are still asked to swap to a different dps but that's it. It's decreased toxicity quite a bit and increased teamwork as well.

It would have to require both parties to consent to the swap of course; if I can just "take" dps from you, then we're right back where we started.

It's just frustrating if I queue DPS intending to play Mei / Reaper / Sym / Junk / whatever and wind up on a map that heavily favors Widow. I would like nothing more than to yield the DPS slot to someone with better sniping skills than I have, but I'm artificially prevented from doing so because some asshole in some other match might be slightly more of an asshole if that feature were present.

Feels like a bad reason to prevent those of us who want to play the game the way it was intended to be played-- with hero swaps when necessary-- from doing so.

The cynic would say you can still do so in Arcade. The fact that we often are in 6 stacks playing creates a different dynamic than the majority who play solo or duo queue. I also think there are a couple of reasons that they don't want to allow role swapping mid-game. One, you touched on: assholes. Someone harping on another player to switch roles with them. Same toxic crap that happened before the change. The other is skill swapping and match making. If the game made the match based on the skill in tank but you are a better DPS and you then switch mid game, it could be prone to negatively affecting competitive balance either unintentionally or via manipulation.

Now for custom games? Absolutely you should be able to tweak it however you want (I think we can, I just never set those up 'cause I am too lazy to learn how they work).

I think what is intended is sometimes independent of the rules. Kinda like RAW vs RAI. They also intended the game to have the freedom to select any character, even if a teammate was playing the same character. Can anyone claim that the game is less enjoyable with that taken away? I think there is a lot more good so far than bad, but there certainly are negatives that impact us as a group more than it does the solos out there.

Like I said, i'm still willing to give it another shot it's just that first experience gave me more anxiety than I was expecting for the "casual" mode of the game.

So, here's the thing with me, I do not do well with competitive "This is for serious" PVP game modes. I usually find myself falling too far into a spiral of getting too involved in the game, then fretting when things go wrong, which make me push further involved, which raises my anxiety because I'm fretting EVEN MORE about not doing well and in the end I'm left having an awful experience overall. I do not like that experience, which is why I spotted playing comp well after season 2. Hell, I can't play games like Hearthstone against other people without getting over invested into it, which is why I avoid those games.

Quick Play has been, up to this point, casual enough for my over-invested spirals to not trigger. For all intents and purposes I'm just playing a silly cooperative game with some friends where we need to get to some objective and push back some rando mooks who are trying to stop us. It's nothing serious and it's for fun.

But somehow... role queue... I dunno, I feel like adding that is giving the game just that extra layer of "this is totally super serious stuff and you better take it serious" that is enough to actually give me anxiety. Like the second I choose that role I feel like I'm saying "I am committing to being the best at this and I will not let anyone down" and that's just... too much. I want to have fun with my games, not have panic attacks about them.

But, like I said, this was just from one night. I'm willing to give it another try. It's just as likely that I won't spiral. We'll see what happens.

I totally get that Crimeny, it's why I'm reluctant to queue for "Just DPS" even though that's more fun for me. I enjoy playing the non-meta characters, and when you're restricted so heavily it means you're more of a burden for the other players.

I mean, tbh, I always missed the craziness of knowing that you COULD go sextuple Mei if you really wanted to ever since that was removed too. I know that No Limits does get cycled into Arcade every so often, but then all you get is people who want to do crazy stupid comps every time. I liked knowing that it wouldn't happen OFTEN... but it COULD happen.

Now, I totally get why that had to get taken away for balance reasons, just like I get why forced 2-2-2 is preferable to balance for even though stuff like Goats was never actually that oppressive at the levels I (and most of us here) tend to play at.

I just don't think the ability for two consenting adults to swap roles mid-match fits in that same category of "stuff that's fun at low levels, but would be unmanageable at high levels."

Crimeny wrote:

Quick Play has been, up to this point, casual enough for my over-invested spirals to not trigger. For all intents and purposes I'm just playing a silly cooperative game with some friends where we need to get to some objective and push back some rando mooks who are trying to stop us. It's nothing serious and it's for fun.

I'll call it out. This isn't just something that's triggered by roll lock, some of us in the Overwatch channel have a problem too. I know I've had many a night where I get overly invested in the game, shot call too aggressively, complain ad nausea about an opponent, make a passive aggressive, unintentional comment about our DPS, tanks, or healers, and that's totally on me for putting micro-aggressions out there and diminishing the fun experience of others. While I agree there are times where I feel inadequate as a DPS I think a decent portion of this general hesitance and change in mood around role lock has been from our slow drift over time away from "silly cooperative game" to a "win at all costs" mindset. Now I don't think anyone is intentionally going into a game or night thinking they'll win every game, but there have been several occasions where we lose that "fun" spirit and someone ends up saying something that really would have best been left unsaid. And I'll be the first to raise my hand as a culprit, it is something I am working on and have been for a while.

I don't know what the solution is. Some will say "go to competitive", but I enjoy hanging out and playing with friends, and maybe it's on us to do a better job of self policing when people are getting too intense in a gentle and constructive reminder that we're here for fun. Hoping the wisdom of others will provide some insight.

Some people want to have fun and screw around. Some people have fun by winning. We don't usually have enough to have a team of each. You shouldn't feel bad because your enjoyment of the game is different than others. Perhaps changing the discord channels to casual, serious, competitive would help.

EvilHomer3k wrote:

Some people want to have fun and screw around. Some people have fun by winning. We don't usually have enough to have a team of each. You shouldn't feel bad because your enjoyment of the game is different than others. Perhaps changing the discord channels to casual, serious, competitive would help.

I like to play to win, but I like to play the characters I enjoy as well. They might not be optimal, but I still try to win.

Last night was just one of those nights...

Mantid wrote:

Last night was just one of those nights...

I remember you saying how you thought you were shot through a shield. Now I see why. I wonder if the one pixel of Soldier that was in front of the shield was hit by the random-ass D'Va bullet. That was crazy.

I really thought I would hate RQ because it blocked my standard Roadhog -> Bastion mid map switch. But it has forced me to try some different characters (I don't totally suck as Rein, who knew?) and in general helped me stay focused on my "job" in the team structure (I do need to do less flanking as Brig though)

But at the end of the day I play Overwatch to hang out with friends, so I'm not the one they need to please with this change, it is all of you, so that I can keep playing with you

I used to think that they'd eventually allow some sort of role swap with role queue. I may have even mentioned it in here. I think that idea won't come to fruition, though, primarily due to the separate ranks per role. You just know there would be a way to game the system so that a gold support/diamond DPS player queues as support and gets a gold DPS to swap. Poof, now you've got a ringer DPS one-clipping your supports every 20 seconds.

In other news I've almost dug out of silver on tanks behind a 77% win rate on the Russian Lady of Destruction... sitting at 1960 after last night. I'm really concentrating on improving with her, especially with bubbles. After every match and especially after losses I go through the replay and step through at 0.25 speed and critique my play, especially around useless bubbles.