Marvel Media (Spoiler Thread)

I think Echo did a great job with it, it referenced stuff about Kingpin that was already explored in Netflix's Daredevil without rehashing it, and assumed you had already watched Hawkeye so you didn't need to be told why he killed her father. I think the Marvels did a good job with it too, I don't really care if someone who didn't see Ms Marvel doesn't feel like they got enough of an explainer about Kamala's family. It worked well for me to just hit the ground running with the assumption I knew her backstory. The only thing I felt it didn't do great with storywise was the villain, which is a recurring problem for Marvel movies, and not something affected by the thing we're talking about.

lunchbox12682 wrote:

I give it even odds the whole TVA thing is a misdirect and they are 5 minutes of the movie.

A lot of the preview stuff for the last movie focused on Deadpool building the X-Force superteam and they killed off all but like two of the characters within minutes of introducing them.

The Deadpool trailer didn't assuage or heighten my already grave concerns, but I will say there's a world of difference between "Assemble X-Force, then Kill Them Instantly" meta, and "Say You're Owned By Disney, Look into the Camera" meta.

hbi2k wrote:

The "continuity lockout" problem is a bit of a catch-22. If the movies didn't integrate with the TV / streaming stuff, you wind up with a bunch of severely constrained "midquels" that can't actually do much of anything so that people who skipped it can watch the next movie unencumbered. But if they integrate too much, you wind up with moviegoers confused and/or angry that they're expected to do "homework."

Or, like, Wanda and Vision went from being in the same movie but barely interacting to apparently dating to I guess they were the loves of each other's lives when we weren't looking? But it leads into a pretty good little story about grief and sitcoms so I guess I'll go with it.

Back in 90's comics, this same exact problem was happening. Readers couldn't get involved in a title because too much lore, or you were jumping in to a story mid-stream.

You'd buy Amazing Spiderman #432 because the cover looked cool but you'd have no idea what was going on because you hadn't been reading (see: asking Comic Book Guy behind the counter to put holds on) Amazing since #427.

Marvel started to get around this based on some suggestions (I think) from the comic book press. I don't remember who was EIC at the time, but they started doing these recap things at the start of each book. The first page (or maybe the inside cover? I'd have to go back and look) would do some panels telling you why MJ was stuck on a boat while Venom was driving the boat and Petey was stuck on the dock unconscious. Or whatever.

This is exactly what TV shows (also serials!), have been doing for decades and we're all used to it via "Previously, on Dexter/MacGuyver/Highlander/Bosch/Shield/SonsOfAnarchy/GoT/Succession/Supernatural..."

And why the Arrested Development joke of, "Next time on Arrested Development..." at the end of episodes as showing things you'd never see happen worked so well.

Marvel needs a, "Previously on..." at the start of their movies. They're already breaking all the walls (even in the last Deadpool trailer they did it!) so you could even do it with comic book captions/readers or even a regular recurring omnipotent- and/or ironic character doing it as an intro.

Watcher (Jeffrey Wright?)
Fury (but Hasselhoff to really lean into the multiverse!)
Dr Strange

Or probably just Deadpool.

Top_Shelf wrote:

Dr Strange

But with Jeffrey Combs as Doctor Mordrid.

Top_Shelf wrote:
hbi2k wrote:

The "continuity lockout" problem is a bit of a catch-22. If the movies didn't integrate with the TV / streaming stuff, you wind up with a bunch of severely constrained "midquels" that can't actually do much of anything so that people who skipped it can watch the next movie unencumbered. But if they integrate too much, you wind up with moviegoers confused and/or angry that they're expected to do "homework."

Or, like, Wanda and Vision went from being in the same movie but barely interacting to apparently dating to I guess they were the loves of each other's lives when we weren't looking? But it leads into a pretty good little story about grief and sitcoms so I guess I'll go with it.

Back in 90's comics, this same exact problem was happening. Readers couldn't get involved in a title because too much lore, or you were jumping in to a story mid-stream.

You'd buy Amazing Spiderman #432 because the cover looked cool but you'd have no idea what was going on because you hadn't been reading (see: asking Comic Book Guy behind the counter to put holds on) Amazing since #427.

Marvel started to get around this based on some suggestions (I think) from the comic book press. I don't remember who was EIC at the time, but they started doing these recap things at the start of each book. The first page (or maybe the inside cover? I'd have to go back and look) would do some panels telling you why MJ was stuck on a boat while Venom was driving the boat and Petey was stuck on the dock unconscious. Or whatever.

This is exactly what TV shows (also serials!), have been doing for decades and we're all used to it via "Previously, on Dexter/MacGuyver/Highlander/Bosch/Shield/SonsOfAnarchy/GoT/Succession/Supernatural..."

And why the Arrested Development joke of, "Next time on Arrested Development..." at the end of episodes as showing things you'd never see happen worked so well.

Marvel needs a, "Previously on..." at the start of their movies. They're already breaking all the walls (even in the last Deadpool trailer they did it!) so you could even do it with comic book captions/readers or even a regular recurring omnipotent- and/or ironic character doing it as an intro.

Watcher (Jeffrey Wright?)
Fury (but Hasselhoff to really lean into the multiverse!)
Dr Strange

Or probably just Deadpool.

His name is Luis and he should summarize everything in the MCU. EVERYTHING!

Hell yeah.

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/0ALWHsY.png)

Rat Boy wrote:

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/0ALWHsY.png)

Eh, fine. I don't think Quinn is pretty enough for Johnny.
I'm not sure why they recast Krasinski, I thought he fit perfectly. But whatever, I like Pedro.

lunchbox12682 wrote:

I'm not sure why they recast Krasinski,

Silver Surfer: BEHOLD, MORTALS OF EARTH, I AM THE HERALD OF GALACTUS! THE TIME OF YOUR DESTRUCTION HAS COME!

Reed looks to camera, makes Office Jim face.

While I do love Krasinski, Pedro Pascal is demonstrably a better actor.

That an Apollo moon landing space suit in that pic? Confirm this is set in the past?

Ebon seems a weird choice but The Bear is the only thing I’ve seen him in.

ruhk wrote:

Ebon seems a weird choice but The Bear is the only thing I’ve seen him in.

He was also in Girls and Andor. Still neither of those performances make me think Ben Grimm.

He's also played another Marvel character already, joining the likes of:

Chris Evans
Josh Brolin

Am I in for X-Men '97? Does a mall baby eat chili fries?

I just think it's a ill omen that the first thing the Mouse does with the X-Men is say "We're bringing that thing from thirty years ago back in a form that sort of looks and sounds like you maybe remember it, but just a little bit off!" Frankly, I don't want an X-Men aimed mainly at flattering and mollifying my old ass demographic.

Though admittedly, when asked "What fresh ideas do we have?" someone at the table chimed in with "What if we gave Magneto his ugliest outfit?"
IMAGE(https://i.ibb.co/FDdSHrK/20240215-084956.jpg)

I just want to know if they have the guts to do the Cyclops the Dead-beat Dad storyline.

Rat Boy wrote:

I just want to know if they have the guts to do the Cyclops the Dead-beat Dad storyline.

Are they doing a few dozen more seasons? Deadbeat Cyclops leads to Maddie Pryor and Jean's resurrection and Cable and then the whole spiraling Summers family tree, and good lord, will that take a while. The Summers family tree is up there with the Magneto/Wanda/Pietro family tree as the most confusing stuff in all of Marvel comics.

How about the Cyke-Jean-Logan throuple from the Hickman run?!

I guarantee the Mouse loathes that currently the only cis het monogamous mutants are Rogue and Gambit.

Also, Imma go off on this a bit, and fandom's whole "Dead Beat Dad" thing. First off, let's allow Scott to maybe make some rash choices when he gets called up and told "Hey, man, remember that love of your life who died? Well, she's walking around here again," and then further finds out it's true. When he tried to contact Madelyn later, and the line had been disconnected, should he have perhaps rushed to check? Perhaps, but this was the pre-cellphone era, and honestly my omnibus of Fall of the Mutants doesn't cover those events, it's entirely likely that Apocalypse attacked him by the time he heard "disconnected." And then he's told that Maddie is dead, and again in this pre-cellphone era, there are a lot of missed connections for a while, and also, dude's been through a lot, he's not entirely sure Jean and Maddie weren't somehow the same person, and given the crazy circumstances, know what? Fair. People say "Oh, he abandoned her for Jean!" but, again "Your dead love is walking around again" is something you check up on, and then Sinister's goons messed everyone up for a few years. I say, bring back all of Wolverine's old-timey bigoted and chauvinistic nicknames, see how that goes over.

Rat Boy wrote:

I don't know how many of these I used as Windows sounds back in the day:

Watched The Marvels yesterday. Overall a good time.

The performances were a delight.
I'd have liked more time spent on the relationships, Carol's guilt and loneliness, Monica's sense of abandonment.
I liked that the direction trusted the audience to follow what was going on rather than needing to over-explain everything.

The main techno-babbly storyline was such pure nonsense. I realise all comic stories are, but this felt egregious, like there's

Spoiler:

no reason destroying an AI would kill the sun!

I can't stand when galaxy and universe are used essentially interchangeably.

Spoiler:

In the space of a sentence Carol is talking about the Kree having jump points or something in 95% of the galaxy so of course she's been to Aladna in the Magellanic Galaxy.

We just finished watching The Marvels. Ya'll right, Iman Vellani is a joy.

My wife and I thoroughly enjoyed it, I would say more than any other Marvel property that we've seen in recent memory. I was just fun.

But I may be reading too much into it, but I did kinda have issue with

Spoiler:

saving the Kree homeworld.
They waged wars of conquest, then broke into civil war when their leadership was removed, then murdered other peoples to steal their natural resources. Their situation was simply the natural consequences of their actions. She should've let them die out. And the throwaway line that the other planets would be just fine?
Meh.

Yeah, thinking about it, it seems that your spoilered section was more about assuaging Carol's guilt than some heroic act.

I don't think she felt guilty at all about destroying the Supreme Intelligence, or that she felt she bore any real responsiblity for what the Kree did to their own planet and sun during their civil war. I think her only guilt there came from them targeting other planets as a way to get to her. I don't think she saved Hala's sun to make up for any guilt, but to show to them that she's not the Annihilator boogeyman the zealots made her out to be in order to consolidate their power.

All her guilt came from the chaos from the collapse that was happening on formerly subjected worlds, not Hala itself.

Yes, I felt the film (which I also liked) suffered from that character motivation not really making sense to me. I think we were meant to believe she felt remorse for it, when I didn't really feel like she had anything to feel guilty for - she decapitated the leadership of an aggressive enemy hegemony and their resulting civil war caused all the bad things to happen to them. This meant the film was muddled thematically. I smell rewrites or something.

I think the first Captain Marvel movie had a similar issue - it sort of flirted with the subtext of a woman fighting against a misogynistic society (the angry 90's female vocalists in the soundtrack, the Jude Law character, the biker, the father) but didn't really follow through on that concept (the Kree society doesn't actually seem to be sexist, and the evil AI was represented by Annette Bening), which meant Carol was rebelling against people generally trying to stifle her, and not a really strong concept, which felt like a copout.

You’re all dancing around the fact the plot wasn’t really very good. That’s all.

I'm a bit weirded out by anyone being okay with the population of a planet being wiped out because of the actions of the dictators and despots that are in charge of the society.