Marvel Media

Just seen Black Panther. I was bored during the first part up until the james bond type scene. Car chase was pretty good. The middle was pretty good over all.

I liked the motivation behind Killmonger but wish he was toned down a bit and less destructive to his own people. I was rather put off by the last part of this because of this.

Spoiler:

I would rather have a traditional enemy rather than black people fighting black people. I found this rather sad and depressing.

The movie looked great and the acting was good. Nice to see ladies getting a bigger role in a movie like this. I can see why people love this movie. Maybe I'll like it more on a second watch but for now it was just ok for me.

SpacePPoliceman wrote:
BadKen wrote:

Does this mean Killmonger was being repressed?

Spoiler:

Yes, though not by Wakanda.

Spoiler:

No, he had his father killed by the Wakandan King, his Uncle, and then he was abandoned, by Wakandans, with no attempt at helping him, an 11 year old kid, deal with a truly wretched tragedy. His Uncle could have (maybe) mind-wiped him and given him to a Wakandan family or at least the King could have pulled some strings so he ended up with, say an Upper-Middle Class Black American family with a background in dealing with trauma, but he was just tossed to fend for himself. And in that context he did pretty good in America, in non-moral terms. He was part of the US Special Forces which is an extremely high skilled profession with pretty good compensation once you take in all the benefits.

jrralls wrote:
SpacePPoliceman wrote:
BadKen wrote:

Does this mean Killmonger was being repressed?

Spoiler:

Yes, though not by Wakanda.

Spoiler:

No, he had his father killed by the Wakandan King, his Uncle, and then he was abandoned, by Wakandans, with no attempt at helping him, an 11 year old kid, deal with a truly wretched tragedy. His Uncle could have (maybe) mind-wiped him and given him to a Wakandan family or at least the King could have pulled some strings so he ended up with, say an Upper-Middle Class Black American family with a background in dealing with trauma, but he was just tossed to fend for himself. And in that context he did pretty good in America, in non-moral terms. He was part of the US Special Forces which is an extremely high skilled profession with pretty good compensation once you take in all the benefits.

Your point not lost on exactly how he got where he is I would note that its still really possible to be successful by all measures and still feel oppressed in the US by simply being black. I feel this is a casual talking point by many people when trying to dismiss and minimize what "successful" Black Americans try to accomplish by speaking out against oppression.

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/z3w2K75.jpg)

That would probably be the single greatest thing ever.

TheGameguru wrote:
jrralls wrote:
SpacePPoliceman wrote:
BadKen wrote:

Does this mean Killmonger was being repressed?

Spoiler:

Yes, though not by Wakanda.

Spoiler:

No, he had his father killed by the Wakandan King, his Uncle, and then he was abandoned, by Wakandans, with no attempt at helping him, an 11 year old kid, deal with a truly wretched tragedy. His Uncle could have (maybe) mind-wiped him and given him to a Wakandan family or at least the King could have pulled some strings so he ended up with, say an Upper-Middle Class Black American family with a background in dealing with trauma, but he was just tossed to fend for himself. And in that context he did pretty good in America, in non-moral terms. He was part of the US Special Forces which is an extremely high skilled profession with pretty good compensation once you take in all the benefits.

Your point not lost on exactly how he got where he is I would note that its still really possible to be successful by all measures and still feel oppressed in the US by simply being black. I feel this is a casual talking point by many people when trying to dismiss and minimize what "successful" Black Americans try to accomplish by speaking out against oppression.

And also when he got to Wakanda, he saw the violence inherent to the system firsthand.

cube wrote:
TheGameguru wrote:
jrralls wrote:
SpacePPoliceman wrote:
BadKen wrote:

Does this mean Killmonger was being repressed?

Spoiler:

Yes, though not by Wakanda.

Spoiler:

No, he had his father killed by the Wakandan King, his Uncle, and then he was abandoned, by Wakandans, with no attempt at helping him, an 11 year old kid, deal with a truly wretched tragedy. His Uncle could have (maybe) mind-wiped him and given him to a Wakandan family or at least the King could have pulled some strings so he ended up with, say an Upper-Middle Class Black American family with a background in dealing with trauma, but he was just tossed to fend for himself. And in that context he did pretty good in America, in non-moral terms. He was part of the US Special Forces which is an extremely high skilled profession with pretty good compensation once you take in all the benefits.

Your point not lost on exactly how he got where he is I would note that its still really possible to be successful by all measures and still feel oppressed in the US by simply being black. I feel this is a casual talking point by many people when trying to dismiss and minimize what "successful" Black Americans try to accomplish by speaking out against oppression.

And also when he got to Wakanda, he saw the violence inherent to the system firsthand.

Killmonger, as presented in the movies, is a man who has ZERO problems with violence in the system, so long as he is the one doing the violence. The very first scene in the museum cemented him rather clearly in villain territory, with the cruel murder of relative innocents when a heist or even a smash-and-grab would have netted the same result. And all those scars he gave himself for each kill? Yea, he took too much joy in those and liked killing for killings sake. It's a very common pattern for people to hear people's words (and believe them) while seeing their actions (and not believing those, which speak so much louder...)

Also, Killmonger managed to 1) Rise to a highly decorated and valued solider in the US Special Forces while hiding his dishonorable nature from his superiors who would not have let him in their (elite) units if they had known his true nature and 2) Not pick up any honorable traits of any the most minimal type (not even value those who fight with you, which is pretty basic) from his time in service. Both feats that strongly suggest he was an evil man.

I can't find any hard numbers on the total number of special forces vets arrested or in prison, but from google search it appears to be a pretty small number (drunk driving, a family stabbing and fraud is all I could find) The fact that it makes the news when a special forces vet goes bad, and given that there are around 100,000+ special forces/special forces vets who are males-skilled-in-violence this strongly suggests a high coloration away from criminal activity/mindset among that group, something Killmonger was an outlier of.

And the US Army is probably the most desegregated large institution in American society in terms of US citizens of different races interacting with each other day in day out; churches, schools, and large corporations all tend (on average) to have a far higher de facto level of segregation than the US Army does. "A visitor to a military installation will witness a degree and a quality of racial integration that are rarely encountered elsewhere. ..... Observation of any dining facility (as the mess hall has been renamed) reveals little informal racial separation. A rule of thumb is that the more military the environment, the more effective the integration. Interracial comity is stronger in the field than in the garrison, stronger on duty than off, and stronger on post than in the world beyond the base."

Killmonger would have been fighting for years with Hispanics, Whites, and Asians in a situation that usually creates a spirit of cooperation in people (team solidarity is HUGE in the military, and in fighting special forces it's intense to a level hard to put into words), but it him it produced .... nothing, apparently.

I would guess that a large number of former SOCOM troops can find lucrative jobs in security, where they may or may exercise their dark natures (Blackwater for instance).

Also, I've spoken with a retired Ranger MSgt who said that there is still a lot of racism in the miliary. Now he came up in the late 80s and said that things are getting better but it is still there.

Nevin73 wrote:

I would guess that a large number of former SOCOM troops can find lucrative jobs in security, where they may or may exercise their dark natures (Blackwater for instance).

Also, I've spoken with a retired Ranger MSgt who said that there is still a lot of racism in the miliary. Now he came up in the late 80s and said that things are getting better but it is still there.

Of course, but it's a relative thing; having the least amount of racial problems of any large segment of society doesn't mean _no_ problems. But to go through a bonding experience and leave that unchanged? He was broken by his depravation, blinded by hate. Driven by a thirst for power, collecting followers who, like most human beings listen to what is said instead of watching what is done. Behavior is truth.

And of course, the late 80's were 30 years ago and a lot can change in society in that amount of time. In the late 80's the majority would not say they approve of Black-White marriages, now it's in the 90's - http://news.gallup.com/poll/163697/a...

Nevin73 wrote:

I would guess that a large number of former SOCOM troops can find lucrative jobs in security, where they may or may exercise their dark natures (Blackwater for instance).

Also, I've spoken with a retired Ranger MSgt who said that there is still a lot of racism in the miliary. Now he came up in the late 80s and said that things are getting better but it is still there.

Actually the numbers are quite small in some of the security companies. And those that actually deploy vice provide training (in the US to US customers) are even smaller. I believe it is still against US law to act as a mercenary or the new term PMC, private military contractor. And there is a broad spectrum of Special Operations troops, not everyone is a SEAL or Delta. The Rangers, Marine Force Recon, and Air Force pararescue teams are considered Special Operations personnel.

As someone who spent 20+ years in the military I would say the reality is close to the item highlighted by jrralls as opposed to the single MSGT whose experience is 20 years old. By no means is there not racism, but I would argue that it is less prevalent in the military than elsewhere and that it is something that is actively stamped out and educated to across a service members professional development.

There is something about being broken down into the very basis of your nature and sharing blood, sweat, and tears with someone that makes you look far beyond skin color. Being completely bare in the field just trying to keep the fungus off your toes, vomiting and slobbering on yourselves during tear gas training, and pissing and sh*tting yourself during 24 hour road marches and operations that really bring you together. We all bleed red was one of my company's frequent sayings.

But also in saying that, there are always those outliers that don't want to or believe in camaraderie or are just broken inside for whatever reason. We need to do a better job at identifying these issues early on and giving them support and diverting their issues/anger to something else.

Sydhart wrote:

There is something about being broken down into the very basis of your nature and sharing blood, sweat, and tears with someone that makes you look far beyond skin color. Being completely bare in the field just trying to keep the fungus off your toes, vomiting and slobbering on yourselves during tear gas training, and pissing and sh*tting yourself during 24 hour road marches and operations that really bring you together. We all bleed red was one of my company's frequent sayings.

But also in saying that, there are always those outliers that don't want to or believe in camaraderie or are just broken inside for whatever reason. We need to do a better job at identifying these issues early on and giving them support and diverting their issues/anger to something else.

+1

Captain America: Civil War - How It All Started
*I laughed

I'm heading out to my first viewing of Black Panther right now!

I missed the window to see it on the nearby IMAX screen. They're showing Red Sparrow there now.

BadKen wrote:

I'm heading out to my first viewing of Black Panther right now!

I missed the window to see it on the nearby IMAX screen. They're showing Red Sparrow Black Widow there now. :(

Fixed it

Given what I've read about Red Sparrow... well, it ain't no Marvel movie.

bnpederson wrote:

Given what I've read about Red Sparrow... well, it ain't no Marvel movie.

Because the lead is a woman?

Jayhawker wrote:
bnpederson wrote:

Given what I've read about Red Sparrow... well, it ain't no Marvel movie.

Because the lead is a woman?

I’m guessing because it’s rated: “R (for strong violence, torture, sexual content, language and some graphic nudity)”

Wow. Black Panther is something else. Definitely in my top 3 MCU movies.

It was so cool to see a story about a black nation written by black people, directed by a black person, starring black people (except the Tolkien whites), with original music by a black guy, production designed by a black woman...

They had a cracker female DP though.

Usually while thinking about a great movie on the way home from the theater I can think of a thing or two I didn't like about it, but not Black Panther. Maybe some of the action scenes felt a little too CGI-ish, but not even to the minor extent of physics-defying action in Wonder Woman, which was my main gripe about that movie.

Everyone kicked ass making this movie. The music is incredible, the production design is incredible, the design of Wakanda, the costumes, the crazy tech, every single actor, every single stunt person, did I mention the music... all of it.

Spoiler:

Oh, and War Rhinos! Hell yeah!

I saw it in 2D in an "AMC Prime" theater, which has reclining rumble seats, Dolby Vision and enhanced surround sound. All of that enhanced the experience, but there was a thin vertical black line about 1/3 of the way from the left of the screen that was mostly only visible in bright scenes. Once I noticed it, though, it got rather distracting. I informed the management and hinted that people might be disinclined to pay a premium price to watch something on a damaged screen. Really it was only a minor distraction, as a lot of the movie is dark. Still, premium price.

Looking forward to watching Black Panther again.

With regards to Killmonger's military background doing anything to redirect his hate, maybe he was just a part of SEAL Team 6. So long as his dishonorable actions were directed towards the enemy, he could find a lot of leeway given from superior officers, if not outright encouragement.

Stengah wrote:

With regards to Killmonger's military background doing anything to redirect his hate, maybe he was just a part of SEAL Team 6. So long as his dishonorable actions were directed towards the enemy, he could find a lot of leeway given from superior officers, if not outright encouragement.

Judging by what Secret Agent Baggins was saying this is probably pretty accurate. Killmonger was a psychopath, but he was their psychopath.

I find the idea of Killmonger as a sympathetic villain a bit hollow.

Spoiler:

While he talks a good game, and Michael B Jordan brings a ton of charisma, the second he has power he goes full despot. To get to Wakanda he murders his own girlfriend, he doesn't offer T'Challa the opportunity to yield. He turns the Wakandans against each other like the colonial powers he hates and wishes to colonise the world like the British Empire did.

The two authentic moments he showed were 1) calling Ramonda "Auntie" which had our audience laughing, (it's a cultural thing) and 2) the "Bury me at sea" line.

I think he's sympathetic in that his anger at Wakanda is very justified, but his goals and actions aren't sympathetic at all.

One thing that struck me was how easily W'Kabi (the border tribe leader) could have been brough back to T'Challa's side by telling him how Killmonger didn't merely kill Klaue where T'Challa had let him escape, he's the reason Klaue escaped in the first place, and he tried to kill Nakia in the process. I doubt he'd have been willing to fight the Dora Milaje for Killmonger had he known that.

Yeah, killmonger's pain and anger are real and sympathetic. His actions are not.

Stengah wrote:

I think he's sympathetic in that his anger at Wakanda is very justified, but his goals and actions aren't sympathetic at all.

One thing that struck me was how easily W'Kabi (the border tribe leader) could have been brough back to T'Challa's side by telling him how Killmonger didn't merely kill Klaue where T'Challa had let him escape, he's the reason Klaue escaped in the first place, and he tried to kill Nakia in the process. I doubt he'd have been willing to fight the Dora Milaje for Killmonger had he known that.

In fairness, they cut all the scenes with Killmonger tapping his teacup.

Do you guys think it was good or bad idea to remove the lesbian relationship in Black Panther? I don't know why it was removed.

Baron Of Hell wrote:

I don't know why it was removed.

Cold feet.

I imagine cold feet played a role, but they already had Okoye (who was supposed to be the one Ayo was flirting with) in a relationship with W’Kabi, which played a big part in ending the final battle. At one point the rough cut was 4 hours long, so if they filmed the flirting scene like the actress that played Ayo said they did, I wouldn't be surprised if it shows up in the deleted scenes.

Baron Of Hell wrote:

Do you guys think it was good or bad idea to remove the lesbian relationship in Black Panther? I don't know why it was removed.

The what now? I missed this, so who was supposed to be in the relationship?
Regardless, one part cold feet, one part may not have fit well into the movie in the end.

I read a thing basically saying if the queer overtones were what's was reported (flirting and mentions like the one cut in Thor Ragnarok, basically) then fine, because at this point there should be an out and out queer character rather than ambiguous teases. Much like with a woman lead, Marvel needs to write a character as unambiguously queer.

steinkrug wrote:
Jayhawker wrote:
bnpederson wrote:

Given what I've read about Red Sparrow... well, it ain't no Marvel movie.

Because the lead is a woman?

I’m guessing because it’s rated: “R (for strong violence, torture, sexual content, language and some graphic nudity)”

Yes, the review I read said it was Verhoeven levels of physical, mental, and sexual violence.