Marvel Media (Spoiler Thread)

WipEout wrote:
cube wrote:
WipEout wrote:
cube wrote:
pyxistyx wrote:
Polygon wrote:

Sure, this is a show where a white male character explains how to punch to an Asian-American, female head of her own dojo, in her own dojo — wait, let me be painfully specific. A white male character explains his martial art — which was made up by white men in the 1970s as a nonspecifically Asian but definitionally more powerful technique than those invented by actual Asian cultures — to an Asian-American, female expert in actual martial arts developed by actual Asian cultures.

Yeah...I'll stop you there, I'll pass, thanks.

So basically, according to the reviewer, Asians are magic.

f*ck that review.

That's what you got out of that? Because it read to me as if the show is hamfistedly claiming that white men are better at developing Asian martial arts than Asian people.

Define "Asian martial arts".

Now tell me what part of that definition makes Asians automatically better at them than anyone else.

Bonus points if you can explain how, as that quote attempts to state, "actual Asian cultures" result in better punching.

Then tell me how any part of that answer isn't racist.

So... what? You're arguing that it's fair for, say, a Baptist to tell the Pope that he came up with a better form of Catholicism? Not just a better religion, but a better Catholicism?

You realize that the way the Baptist became a Baptist is because a whole bunch of people(most notably Martin Luther) did exactly that?

WipEout wrote:

It's one thing to say one fighting style is somehow better or more powerful than another. It's even fair, I'd think, to say that someone has built upon the product of another culture and maybe even surpassed aspects of it in some ways (or for a story's sake, in every way-- and maybe that's how it actually goes down in the show, but I'm going off the Polygon quote).

I find it problematic for someone to come into a culture entirely different from their own, develop a product based entirely on that culture, then claim that it is their own, better version of that culture's product. It's not. It might be a better variation on that culture's product, but the creator should admit as much. At the very least, the creator/master (Danny Rand, in this case), would do well to at least be respectful of the giants whose backs he was able to build upon. And again, maybe he actually does. But from the quote, it doesn't really sound like it.

I agree with the 3rd to last sentence. That is true.

But everything else, I don't agree at all. Martial arts aren't some mystical thing that's a distilled version of a culture. Often, they have rituals and practices that are separate from the culture that they came from. They're a part of the culture, but not necessarily a product.

And finding better ways to punch people isn't just for Asians. It's a pastime for pretty much the entire planet.

WipEout wrote:

Like I said-- what I got from the Polygon quote was that a white guy walks into a martial arts master's house, and basically says "my made-up Asian martial art is better than your Asian martial art, in spite of the fact that my made-up martial art is based on Asian stereotypes from the 70s while yours is based on a rich cultural history of a particular Asian nationality."

And this is exactly the point of my question. Explain in a non-racist way how real Asian cultures produce better martial arts. Bonus points if you can actually point out which cultures are involved.

oilypenguin wrote:

Wipeout, continuing the argument and then agreeing that this isn't the thread strikes me as disingenuous. I'm actually more inclined to continue the argument since I talked with cube so I'd be happy to engage if you were to take that to D&D.

Sorry, didn't mean to sound disingenuous. Was in a rush to hit post and get home. I'll be happy to continue the conversation in the appropriate thread, when I have a chance.

Cube, I continued the conversation here, if you care to join me.

...so if I don't finish Iron Fist (assuming I don't bounce off it quicker than one can say "The OA") before Mass Effect Andromeda releases, I shouldn't feel too bad.

EW has some pictures of Thor Ragnarok.

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Ragnarok sure looks festive.

Clock was right. It does look like a Power Rangers movie.

And it still looks better than the actual Power Rangers movie we're getting.

The Thor movie is meant to be utterly ridiculous so it looks like it's shaping up well.

Except the new hair. Ugh.

The new hair makes sense for a gladiator Thor. And Loki there looks like he is lounging in the VIP section of the arena.

I think Chris Hemsworth just got sick of wearing a wig all the time.

Mantid wrote:

Here's our official photo from Thor: Ragnarok. Makes the last post-credits scene all the more mysterious...

Are you not entertained?

A few pages back, someone mentioned that Legion is like Christopher Nolan's take on a Marvel property. After the last two episodes, that's like saying that Event Horizon is like Dr. Suess' take on Apollo 13. I have no clue how you get Nolan from this. This show may be the most bugnuts insane thing I've seen since Twin Peaks, and last night's episode was pure nightmare fuel. I am LOVING it.

trichy wrote:

A few pages back, someone mentioned that Legion is like Christopher Nolan's take on a Marvel property. After the last two episodes, that's like saying that Event Horizon is like Dr. Suess' take on Apollo 13. I have no clue how you get Nolan from this. This show may be the most bugnuts insane thing I've seen since Twin Peaks, and last night's episode was pure nightmare fuel. I am LOVING it.

I assumed the Nolan's reference was an Inception reference. Which I can kind of see, if only due to much of the world being in his dreams/altered realities.

But tone wise, it's not really that close. It only lines up superficially.

trichy wrote:

A few pages back, someone mentioned that Legion is like Christopher Nolan's take on a Marvel property. After the last two episodes, that's like saying that Event Horizon is like Dr. Suess' take on Apollo 13. I have no clue how you get Nolan from this. This show may be the most bugnuts insane thing I've seen since Twin Peaks, and last night's episode was pure nightmare fuel. I am LOVING it.

Best simile EVER… can't… stop… laughing…

Nuts to this Legion show, now all I want is to see Dr. Seuss' take on Apollo 13.

BadKen wrote:
trichy wrote:

A few pages back, someone mentioned that Legion is like Christopher Nolan's take on a Marvel property. After the last two episodes, that's like saying that Event Horizon is like Dr. Suess' take on Apollo 13. I have no clue how you get Nolan from this. This show may be the most bugnuts insane thing I've seen since Twin Peaks, and last night's episode was pure nightmare fuel. I am LOVING it.

Best simile EVER… can't… stop… laughing…

I'd love to see Suess' Apollo 13. And also that makes me want to watch Legion even more.

oilypenguin wrote:
Demyx wrote:
Stengah wrote:

Might be a case of simply not meeting incredibly high expectations, so an average show gets painted as terrible.

Who has incredibly high expectations for Iron Fist?

Just cartoonin.

...yep

I am going into this incredibly reserved.

I couldn't care less on the ethnicity of IF to be honest. If they are trying to maintain the original story with him being Caucasian, I get it. They could have replaced Danny with a feral badger supporting a coke habit as long as the story and martial arts were up to snuff and I would have been ecstatic. Hell, the story could be lackluster and as long as the martial arts were solid I would have been happy.

All of the reviews I have seen so far have been on just the first 6 episodes that were given out to be reviewed, so I am grasping onto whatever I can that they manage to finish up the latter just over half with a more solid wrap-up.

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trichy wrote:

A few pages back, someone mentioned that Legion is like Christopher Nolan's take on a Marvel property. After the last two episodes, that's like saying that Event Horizon is like Dr. Suess' take on Apollo 13. I have no clue how you get Nolan from this. This show may be the most bugnuts insane thing I've seen since Twin Peaks, and last night's episode was pure nightmare fuel. I am LOVING it.

MannishBoy wrote:

I assumed the Nolan's reference was an Inception reference. Which I can kind of see, if only due to much of the world being in his dreams/altered realities.

But tone wise, it's not really that close. It only lines up superficially.

That was the way it was described to me, which was indeed a reference to Inception and Memento. I said that I could sense the thematic similarities, up until the Bollywood dance number, which is about the most un-Nolan thing you could possibly imagine.

It wasn't a reference to the Batman/Man of Steel movies, which I realize now is what most people here would infer.

Besides, everyone knows that Event Horizon would be Sam Raimi's take on Apollo 13.

I think IF as a badger with a coke addition was in the Tales of the Iron Fist series. I believe he teamed up with Rocket Raccoon.

I would pick up that Trade!

BadKen wrote:

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I've been playing so much Zelda lately that it took me way too long to realize this was a reference to an Internet joke and not something to do with checking every tree for things to cook.

ccesarano wrote:
BadKen wrote:

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I've been playing so much Zelda lately that it took me way too long to realize this was a reference to an Internet joke and not something to do with checking every tree for things to cook.

That reference is at least a decade
old at this point

farley3k wrote:

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She needs to stop being so adorable and awesome.

ccesarano wrote:
BadKen wrote:

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I've been playing so much Zelda lately that it took me way too long to realize this was a reference to an Internet joke and not something to do with checking every tree for things to cook.

That's it! I've come up with a new recipe!

Spoiler:

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Veloxi wrote:
farley3k wrote:

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She needs to stop being so adorable and awesome.

And stop using Wolverine's claws. X-23 only has two blades.

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Alz wrote:
Veloxi wrote:
farley3k wrote:

She needs to stop being so adorable and awesome.

And stop using Wolverine's claws. X-23 only has two blades.

MannishBoy wrote:
farley3k wrote:

Continuity error.

Veloxi wrote:
farley3k wrote:

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She needs to stop being so adorable and awesome.

And she needs to stop playing around with Logan's claws. Those things are not a child's toy, she needs to stick to her own implanted claws. Kids these days.

Daredevil's original costume at the end of season one was one of the worst I've seen. It had NOTHING on Diamondback's at the end of Luke Cage. Ugh.

Okay. So, the second theme song animation. When Wolverine slashes and it fades into Jean, Cyclops, and then Jean, Cyclops and Wolverine...

That's just such a cliche'd anime theme opening that it's perfect. Perfect.

Mother f*cking perfect.

Thank you for that, Oily.