Marvel Media (This is the spoiler thread, Q-Stone - You're welcome)

Possibly but if fan sites, which are generally more positive, are saying it's at best 'just ok' then it's not a good sign. I'll still watch it but my excitement is a little deflated.

On another note, Legion is absolutely awesome. It's done by one of the guys from Fargo and kind of shares that shows quirky but well filmed style. Also I had no idea that was Matthew from Downton Abbey. He's great as David.

Stengah wrote:

Might be a case of simply not meeting incredibly high expectations, so an average show gets painted as terrible.

Who has incredibly high expectations for Iron Fist?

Demyx wrote:
Stengah wrote:

Might be a case of simply not meeting incredibly high expectations, so an average show gets painted as terrible.

Who has incredibly high expectations for Iron Fist?

Just cartoonin.

Waaaay back in junior high I played the old 1980's Marvel pen & paper RPG with friends. We decided to go with teams of pairs and my friend got Powerman and I got stuck with Ironfist. I was so sad. Luckily for me we hated the system and switched to Champions not long after.

RooksGambit wrote:

Waaaay back in junior high I played the old 1980's Marvel pen & paper RPG with friends. We decided to go with teams of pairs and my friend got Powerman and I got stuck with Ironfist. I was so sad. Luckily for me we hated the system and switched to Champions not long after.

Man. Switching TO Champions. That's a damning indictment of the Marvel system.

RooksGambit wrote:

Possibly but if fan sites, which are generally more positive,

More easily hyped and more positive are two very different things.

bnpederson wrote:
RooksGambit wrote:

Waaaay back in junior high I played the old 1980's Marvel pen & paper RPG with friends. We decided to go with teams of pairs and my friend got Powerman and I got stuck with Ironfist. I was so sad. Luckily for me we hated the system and switched to Champions not long after.

Man. Switching TO Champions. That's a damning indictment of the Marvel system.

Haha yeah. I think we did Champions for a few months then got stuck on all things GURPS from wild west to scifi to cthulhu. Good times but a story for another thread lol

farley3k wrote:

IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/UYXyCnb.gif)

Continuity error.

RooksGambit wrote:

On another note, Legion is absolutely awesome. It's done by one of the guys from Fargo and kind of shares that shows quirky but well filmed style. Also I had no idea that was Matthew from Downton Abbey. He's great as David.

Wait, what? No way..

Ho. Lee. Sheeit.

And he's the new Beast?

I know. I'm equally austanded.
Pretty sure that's still not enough to get my wife to watch an episode of Legion.

Alz wrote:

And he's the new Beast?

That confused me for a second in the Marvel thread.

Demyx wrote:
Stengah wrote:

Might be a case of simply not meeting incredibly high expectations, so an average show gets painted as terrible.

Who has incredibly high expectations for Iron Fist?

Not so much for Iron Fist, just for Netflix's Marvel shows in general. I'm not entirely surprised that it's not good considering that they won't have the Luke Cage / Iron Fist bromance to play up and are keeping his origin "mysterious" for at least the first few episodes.

ClockworkHouse wrote:
RooksGambit wrote:

Polygon straight up called it terrible

IMAGE(http://riffsy.com/image/vh9V_tinygif.gif)

Normally I'd agree with you, but I tend to get behind Susana Polo's opinions on comic things in general, personally. I'm still looking forward to watching Iron Fist, but I have to admit my excitement is somewhat tempered now.

pyxistyx wrote:
Polygon wrote:

Sure, this is a show where a white male character explains how to punch to an Asian-American, female head of her own dojo, in her own dojo — wait, let me be painfully specific. A white male character explains his martial art — which was made up by white men in the 1970s as a nonspecifically Asian but definitionally more powerful technique than those invented by actual Asian cultures — to an Asian-American, female expert in actual martial arts developed by actual Asian cultures.

Yeah...I'll stop you there, I'll pass, thanks.

So basically, according to the reviewer, Asians are magic.

f*ck that review.

cube wrote:
pyxistyx wrote:
Polygon wrote:

Sure, this is a show where a white male character explains how to punch to an Asian-American, female head of her own dojo, in her own dojo — wait, let me be painfully specific. A white male character explains his martial art — which was made up by white men in the 1970s as a nonspecifically Asian but definitionally more powerful technique than those invented by actual Asian cultures — to an Asian-American, female expert in actual martial arts developed by actual Asian cultures.

Yeah...I'll stop you there, I'll pass, thanks.

So basically, according to the reviewer, Asians are magic.

f*ck that review.

PROVE THAT YOU'RE NOT MAGIC.

YOU'VE SEEN MY STREET FIGHTER SKILLS.

cube wrote:
pyxistyx wrote:
Polygon wrote:

Sure, this is a show where a white male character explains how to punch to an Asian-American, female head of her own dojo, in her own dojo — wait, let me be painfully specific. A white male character explains his martial art — which was made up by white men in the 1970s as a nonspecifically Asian but definitionally more powerful technique than those invented by actual Asian cultures — to an Asian-American, female expert in actual martial arts developed by actual Asian cultures.

Yeah...I'll stop you there, I'll pass, thanks.

So basically, according to the reviewer, Asians are magic.

f*ck that review.

That review sounds an awful lot like people complaining that the laws of physics aren't working right in D&D.

mudbunny wrote:
cube wrote:
pyxistyx wrote:
Polygon wrote:

Sure, this is a show where a white male character explains how to punch to an Asian-American, female head of her own dojo, in her own dojo — wait, let me be painfully specific. A white male character explains his martial art — which was made up by white men in the 1970s as a nonspecifically Asian but definitionally more powerful technique than those invented by actual Asian cultures — to an Asian-American, female expert in actual martial arts developed by actual Asian cultures.

Yeah...I'll stop you there, I'll pass, thanks.

So basically, according to the reviewer, Asians are magic.

f*ck that review.

That review sounds an awful lot like people complaining that the laws of physics aren't working right in D&D.

And then arguing that their character should punch better because they're Asian.

cube wrote:
pyxistyx wrote:
Polygon wrote:

Sure, this is a show where a white male character explains how to punch to an Asian-American, female head of her own dojo, in her own dojo — wait, let me be painfully specific. A white male character explains his martial art — which was made up by white men in the 1970s as a nonspecifically Asian but definitionally more powerful technique than those invented by actual Asian cultures — to an Asian-American, female expert in actual martial arts developed by actual Asian cultures.

Yeah...I'll stop you there, I'll pass, thanks.

So basically, according to the reviewer, Asians are magic.

f*ck that review.

That's what you got out of that? Because it read to me as if the show is hamfistedly claiming that white men are better at developing Asian martial arts than Asian people.

cube wrote:

And then arguing that their character should punch better because they're Asian.

As well as if a culture invented something, they're inherently better at it than everybody.

As we know from MOBA's, that must be true.

Oh wait.

This might truly be a bad show. I haven't seen it. But I have felt since it was announced that it was going to review poorly because of the controversy around the character, whatever the quality.

WipEout wrote:
cube wrote:
pyxistyx wrote:
Polygon wrote:

Sure, this is a show where a white male character explains how to punch to an Asian-American, female head of her own dojo, in her own dojo — wait, let me be painfully specific. A white male character explains his martial art — which was made up by white men in the 1970s as a nonspecifically Asian but definitionally more powerful technique than those invented by actual Asian cultures — to an Asian-American, female expert in actual martial arts developed by actual Asian cultures.

Yeah...I'll stop you there, I'll pass, thanks.

So basically, according to the reviewer, Asians are magic.

f*ck that review.

That's what you got out of that? Because it read to me as if the show is hamfistedly claiming that white men are better at developing Asian martial arts than Asian people.

Define "Asian martial arts".

Now tell me what part of that definition makes Asians automatically better at them than anyone else.

Bonus points if you can explain how, as that quote attempts to state, "actual Asian cultures" result in better punching.

Then tell me how any part of that answer isn't racist.

It also looks like (as usual) they know f*ck all about the source material.

cube wrote:
mudbunny wrote:
cube wrote:
pyxistyx wrote:
Polygon wrote:

Sure, this is a show where a white male character explains how to punch to an Asian-American, female head of her own dojo, in her own dojo — wait, let me be painfully specific. A white male character explains his martial art — which was made up by white men in the 1970s as a nonspecifically Asian but definitionally more powerful technique than those invented by actual Asian cultures — to an Asian-American, female expert in actual martial arts developed by actual Asian cultures.

Yeah...I'll stop you there, I'll pass, thanks.

So basically, according to the reviewer, Asians are magic.

f*ck that review.

That review sounds an awful lot like people complaining that the laws of physics aren't working right in D&D.

And then arguing that their character should punch better because they're Asian.

It's an extension of the hubbub about keeping Danny as IF and keeping Danny white. This probably isn't the thread to get into that but that's the point of view that polygon article is coming from: That it was wrong to bring the character to TV as originally written.

As far as I'm concerned that's a valid opinion that I'd happily discuss but again, this isn't the thread to get into it. But there is a thread for that.

My concern as a fan is that he's man-splaining punching to Colleen mother f*cking Wing in her own dojo and ok, he's supposedly the best kung fu person in the world (which I contest that he's not but then cartoonin will fight me) but come on, lady knows how to throw a punch. Hell, on the right day Danny would be lucky to leave that dojo alive. That scene sounds like it might be indicative of the whole series.

We'll see.

Here's our official photo from Thor: Ragnarok. Makes the last post-credits scene all the more mysterious...

Mantid wrote:

Here's our official photo from Thor: Ragnarok. Makes the last post-credits scene all the more mysterious...

It looks like a Power Rangers movie.

ClockworkHouse wrote:
Alz wrote:

Before I watched it, I had a friend describe it as "if Christopher Nolan made an MCU movie"

Well, I was almost willing to check it out. Now I'm not.

As someone who hates Nolan I don't see much of him in it really but that may be willful blocking. I saw someone describe it as David Lynch meets Wes Anderson which I love but realize is a weird blend.

cube wrote:
WipEout wrote:
cube wrote:
pyxistyx wrote:
Polygon wrote:

Sure, this is a show where a white male character explains how to punch to an Asian-American, female head of her own dojo, in her own dojo — wait, let me be painfully specific. A white male character explains his martial art — which was made up by white men in the 1970s as a nonspecifically Asian but definitionally more powerful technique than those invented by actual Asian cultures — to an Asian-American, female expert in actual martial arts developed by actual Asian cultures.

Yeah...I'll stop you there, I'll pass, thanks.

So basically, according to the reviewer, Asians are magic.

f*ck that review.

That's what you got out of that? Because it read to me as if the show is hamfistedly claiming that white men are better at developing Asian martial arts than Asian people.

Define "Asian martial arts".

Now tell me what part of that definition makes Asians automatically better at them than anyone else.

Bonus points if you can explain how, as that quote attempts to state, "actual Asian cultures" result in better punching.

Then tell me how any part of that answer isn't racist.

So... what? You're arguing that it's fair for, say, a Baptist to tell the Pope that he came up with a better form of Catholicism? Not just a better religion, but a better Catholicism?

It's one thing to say one fighting style is somehow better or more powerful than another. It's even fair, I'd think, to say that someone has built upon the product of another culture and maybe even surpassed aspects of it in some ways (or for a story's sake, in every way-- and maybe that's how it actually goes down in the show, but I'm going off the Polygon quote).

I find it problematic for someone to come into a culture entirely different from their own, develop a product based entirely on that culture, then claim that it is their own, better version of that culture's product. It's not. It might be a better variation on that culture's product, but the creator should admit as much. At the very least, the creator/master (Danny Rand, in this case), would do well to at least be respectful of the giants whose backs he was able to build upon. And again, maybe he actually does. But from the quote, it doesn't really sound like it.

Like I said-- what I got from the Polygon quote was that a white guy walks into a martial arts master's house, and basically says "my made-up Asian martial art is better than your Asian martial art, in spite of the fact that my made-up martial art is based on Asian stereotypes from the 70s while yours is based on a rich cultural history of a particular Asian nationality."

Like Oily said, though, this isn't the thread for this so I'll leave it at that.

oilypenguin wrote:

My concern as a fan is that he's man-splaining punching to Colleen mother f*cking Wing in her own dojo and ok, he's supposedly the best kung fu person in the world (which I contest that he's not but then cartoonin will fight me) but come on, lady knows how to throw a punch. Hell, on the right day Danny would be lucky to leave that dojo alive. That scene sounds like it might be indicative of the whole series.

We'll see.

Does the article go into any further context as to what he's explaining? Is he discussing how his Iron Fist ability works? Or is he literally telling her how to fight? They put an emphasis in that quote on a made up white people martial art so it gives me the impression he's explaining his "super secret magic man technique" or something.

Or it could just him man-splaining to a character. Which one could still try and "defend" as necessary exposition for the audience, but let's be honest if that's the end result then you need to step up your writing game.

I'm neutral on the matter until I see it in the context, though. I've both gotten in a rage over something that, in context, was nothing, or defended something that, in context, was pretty horrible and in the end I only have so much of a horse in this race.

Wipeout, continuing the argument and then agreeing that this isn't the thread strikes me as disingenuous. I'm actually more inclined to continue the argument since I talked with cube so I'd be happy to engage if you were to take that to D&D.

As cces pointed out, we have no context for anything, just Susana Polo's hot takes. Though she has watched the first 6 episodes and if she says there are writing problems, I believe her and those problems could show themselves in ways like one martial arts master showing another how to punch.

Here's the review.

I am looking forward to this show less now in spite of my love of IF and my burning need for a Luke and Danny team up to be as great as it can be in comics.

Those Thor pictures....

Another damning review of Ironfist from someone who liked the other Netflix offerings.

The action scenes throughout the first six episodes are few and far between, and when they come, they’re filmed and edited in a manner where it becomes hard to tell what Danny is doing, or if he’s remotely the brilliant fighter he’s being sold as. The first few fights have all the actors, Jones in particular, moving so slowly and tentatively, it feels like they filmed the first rehearsal and moved on. I wanted to write that off as the show’s way of demonstrating that Danny is so good, he barely needs to make an effort against civilians — an approach that served Luke Cage well at times — but later fights aren’t any more impressive, even if Danny is moving slightly faster. (He’s not even involved in a long and elaborate combat sequence until late in the fourth episode.) Colleen’s fights look a bit better in comparison, but are also edited so aggressively that it’s all but impossible to tell.

It would be easy to blame the choppiness of the action on the fact that so few modern filmmakers understand how to shoot and edit this stuff anymore. (One of the reasons John Wick struck a chord with the audience was that its directors knew that less is often more in the genre, and focused on making sure we could easily follow everything Keanu Reeves was doing.) But Iron Fist comes out of the Netflix/Marvel factory, where Daredevil features some of the most exciting — and most classically composed — fight scenes in all of television, as the camera just hangs back and lets us watch the Man Without Fear kick and flip his way through one army of bad guys after another(*). The skimpiness and infrequency of the Iron Fist fight scenes suggest a production doing whatever it can to keep you from noticing that the greatest warrior ever produced by the Seven Capital Cities of Heaven, who should be able to cut his way through men like in the comics page below, instead moves like a guy who can’t wait to get his green belt at the strip mall dojo.

So, a martial art super hero show with crappy martial arts.