Trouble at the Koolaid Point

Andre Norton (Alice Mary Norton), who also wrote under Andrew North and Allen Weston, used male names for greater marketability.

garion333 wrote:

My favorite quote:

Upon her return to science fiction she took on her male pen name. Bradley Sheldon later stated in an interview with Asimov’s Science Fiction magazine that ‘a male name seemed like good camouflage. I had the feeling that a man would slip by less observed. I’ve had too many experiences in my life of being the first woman in some damned occupation.’

That'd be James Tiptree Jr. (aka Dr. Alice Bradley Sheldon), who won a Hugo while most of the SF community assumed she was male.

Both Sheldon and Norton have awards named after them: the Tiptree Award and the Norton Award.

I actually didn't realize that's where the Tiptree award came from. Shows what I know.

ClockworkHouse wrote:
WizKid wrote:
Gravey wrote:

Yup. C. J. Cherryh is actually a pen name.
J.K. Rowling—boys won't read a book written by a woman. The list goes on and on and on and on and on.

But you know, meritocracy!

Like C.S Lewis and J.R.R Tolkien?

More like George Eliot.

Or Curer, Acton, and Ellis Bell, aka Charlotte, Anne, and Emily Bronte.

boogle wrote:

Last I checked Liu Cixin's a dude so that kills the puppies -> affirmative action for women hypothesis.
Puppies -> hugo's going to non puppies.

You forgot about the affirmative action for minorities portion.

Premise: Female authors often use gender neutral or male pseudonyms abbreviations in order to improve sales.

Test: Amazon top 100 best seller in Science Fiction

I'm too lazy to to research for pseudonyms but I'd be interested to see if anyone else see any female writers on the list under a male pseudonyms. But abbreviations should be easy to check.

Results:
Male names: 69
Female Names: 12
Gender Neutral names: 13ish

Abbreviations: 6 total, 3 males 3 females
- A.G. Riddle
- Male
- N. K. Jemisin
-Female
- M.R. Forbes
- Male
- K.D. Kinney
-Female
- J.A. Sutherland
-Male
- P.A. GLASPY
- Female

My Interpretation:
Male writers dominated this list, I'm not debating this point and I think that female writers should have more representation on this list

I didn't see much of, if any, of a correlation with abbreviated female writers being higher on the list. The in fact the top female writer, Katie Hamstead was listed at #13 while N. K. Jemisin came in 3 spots down at #16, and #61. The next female writers Mandy M. Roth came in at #25, Isabel Wroth at #26, Lindsay Buroker at #36, #43, #60. Rachel Aukes at #62. Then the second abbreviated female writer K.D. Kinney came in at #72. The 3rd abbreviated female P.A. GLASPY was at #100 but seems to have dropped off the list during the writing of this.

In fairness 20% of female writers used a abbreviated name compared to to just 4% of male writers, so from this data set it does seem to be a far more common practice, but it's efficaciousness still seems questionable. JK Rowling probably would have been fine publishing under as Joanne Rowling.

Now this is not to say that agents aren't pressuring female writers more then male writers to use a pen name or an abbreviation. It's hardly contained to the writing industry there is a famous story about a musician (I forget his name) who first found out that his agent had changed his name without telling him, when he saw his first album.

I'll go back to listening now as this is more effort then I like to put into these P&C forums.

That is a lot of effort to completely miss the point.

Whether you think it's efficacious or not, is it not significant than a number of women have felt that this was necessary and have kept up the practice for decades?

ClockworkHouse wrote:

That is a lot of effort to completely miss the point.

Whether you think it's efficacious or not, is it not significant than a number of women have felt that this was necessary and have kept up the practice for decades?

Or have been told it was necessary by publishers, which I actually thought was the point of J.K. Rowling's story... Hey, I was right.

WizKid wrote:

I'll go back to listening now as this is more effort then I like to put into these P&C forums.

Listening can be effortful too, and it's frequently rewarding as such.

Thank you all for fostering a discussion.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

That is a lot of effort to completely miss the point.

Whether you think it's efficacious or not, is it not significant than a number of women have felt that this was necessary and have kept up the practice for decades?

Well, you know, us womens, being as regularly overcome by feelings as we are, can't help but behave irrationally under such circumstances. We need someone to come set us straight with facts and reason so that we don't need to worry our little heads about it anymore. *leans forward for head to be patted*

Just to spell it out for the oblivious: women use initials or pen names to hide that they're women. Men use initials or pen names to hide embarrassing first names or because the initials looked cool.

Counting up the numbers is irrelevant. Looking for men publishing under female pen names is closer, but is also more likely to be associated with genres like romance, where the perception is that it's beneath the dignity of a man to write them.

Leslie Jones was horrifically hacked. Not that it's a revelation that the alt-right is pathetic and evil, but it still fills me with an uncharitable rage to see how pathetic they are.

Vice gaming talks with Zoe Quinn, addresses Gamergate and OH BY THE WAY SHE'S MAKING A CHUCK TINGLE FMV DATING SIM. :O

pyxistyx wrote:

OH BY THE WAY SHE'S MAKING A CHUCK TINGLE DATING SIM. :O

Yeah, I'm in on that. It is the "most ridiculous bullsh*t" premise I've seen and I am totally for it. I also just love the fact that GG (and other detractors who may not be 100% in that camp) are losing their minds over this.

Interesting that four of five of Wizkid's example names are late 19th/early 20th century. Is it possible the social norms, or perhaps printing norms, encouraged the use of initials? Or is it simply the tedium of constantly writing one's full name in copperplate that led to it?

Ralph, of the sh*thole site The Ralph Retort, apparently arrested for drunkenly attacked a sheriff deputy.

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/09/lead...

Tangentially related to Whizkid's post, the most recent episode of the Not Your Mama's Gamer podcast discusses what it's like for women in games studies academia, and how their experience differs from their male counterparts. They touch on everything in their field, but the section where they address how they get much more flak for articles they publish (or none at all, as in ignored outright) was pretty interesting to me.

http://www.nymgamer.com/?p=14716

Throw the book at him.

A big one, with metal bits in the spine.

Bonus points if it's from one of this year's Hugo winners.

pyxistyx wrote:

Throw the book at him.

A big one, with metal bits in the spine.

Bonus points if it's from one of this year's Hugo winners.

All the points if it's "Slammed in the Butt by My Drunken Attack on a Sheriff's Deputy," by Chuck Tingle, narrated by Zoe Quinn.

sometimesdee wrote:

"Slammed in the Butt by My Drunken Attack on a Sheriff's Deputy," by Chuck Tingle, narrated by Zoe Quinn.

This needs to freaking happen.

nel e nel wrote:

Tangentially related to Whizkid's post, the most recent episode of the Not Your Mama's Gamer podcast discusses what it's like for women in games studies academia, and how their experience differs from their male counterparts. They touch on everything in their field, but the section where they address how they get much more flak for articles they publish (or none at all, as in ignored outright) was pretty interesting to me.

http://www.nymgamer.com/?p=14716

I've learned so much from those folks over the years.