Conference Call

GWJ Conference Call Episode 421

Sunset Overdrive, Civilization: Beyond Earth, Lords of The Fallen, Evolve Alpha, Games That Play For You, Your Emails and More!

This week Shawn, Julian and Elysium talk about games that play themselves for you. Shawn also reveals that he's the worst.

To contact us, email [email protected]! Send us your thoughts on the show, pressing issues you want to talk about or whatever else is on your mind. You can even send a 30 second audio question or comment (MP3 format please) if you're so inclined.

Chairman_Mao's Timestamps
00.04.24 Evolve Alpha
00.11.01 Civilization: Beyond Earth
00.20.34 Sunset Overdrive
00.31.35 Lords of the Fallen
00.34.50 This week's topic: Games that go on autopilot!
00.50.58 Your emails!

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Show credits

Music credits: 

Intro/Outtro Music - Ian Dorsch, Willowtree Audioworks

Comments

This week Shawn, Julian and Elysium talk about games that play themselves for you. Shawn also reveals that he's the worst.

So why is he Elysium and not Sean?

Prozac wrote:
This week Shawn, Julian and Elysium talk about games that play themselves for you. Shawn also reveals that he's the worst.

So why is he Elysium and not Sean?

Because he's a cool-cyber-internet guy like from Hackers, so he has to use his handle. This is my theory.

I don't know if you know this but I am cubs1917, I just became an intern at GWJ. Google me - I'm kind of a big deal haha.

On a serious note - as someone who recently became a dad (6months ago) I'd like to hear more about how you play your games with kids.

I don't know how that niche topic would manifest - whether it'd be a stream of you playing with your kids; or a segment on a podcast - it would be great to hear you explore more about that relationship. You could even call it Gamers w/ Kids hah.

I guess I'm the list guy then I'm sure there are people out there with lists.

'Games that play themselves' feels a little too reductive to me. Early on the Batman Arkham fights can be won with hitting x over and over again but as soon as you add in thugs with knives, thugs with shields and a machine gun that random thugs keep picking up then they do become fights where you have to prioritise and react.

Fighting games have always been open to abuse by spamming a single button. I remember one fighting game (possibly Soul Calibre) where I found I could consistently win bouts by performing the same kick endlessly.

Sleeping Dogs is a great example of a fighting system were, once you are past the early fights, you aren't going to win by just pressing one button. If you like that style of combat but want a meatier, more challenging experience I'd recommend it to everyone but Rabbit's son.

The Assassin's Creed combat has become too simple and easy. I have high hopes that AC:Unity will be tougher. I've never understood the criticism of the traversal mechanic in AC. Running across rooftops is the equivalent of driving in a racing game. The faster and more fluid the better. I'm not sure what having to press extra buttons to swop from wall to roof top or to jump from chimney to tree branch would add to the game.

Higgledy wrote:

Sleeping Dogs is a great example of a fighting system were, once you are past the early fights, you aren't going to win by just pressing one button. If you like that style of combat but want a meatier, more challenging experience I'd recommend it to everyone but Rabbit's son.

I'd also throw in Jade Empire there.

I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one with a moleskin notebook filled with lists of games I "need" to buy, games I'll buy when they drop to <$40, and previously purchased games in my queue that I "must" play before I allow myself to drop $60 on a new title.

That said, this year's "need" list is looking a bit malnourished; I'm a console gamer so that limits my selection but this holiday release schedule still feels scant. I'm legitimately excited for AC: Unity but even that is tempered with some pouting over the fact that I won't get more ship-to-ship combat unless I also pick up AC: Rogue. Telltale's GoT game will likely get my dollar but that feels more like an XBLA game than a AAA title.

Adding cheese to my whine, I wasn't a huge fan of the first few Dragon Age games so I'm hesitant to buy Inquisition on release day, the console version of ESO seems like it will ship DOA, and The Witcher III feels like it is eons away. I suppose I'll play some more Destiny and get really well acquainted with my Netflix queue.

TheCatsJaguar wrote:

I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one with a moleskin notebook filled with lists of games I "need" to buy, games I'll buy when they drop to <$40, and previously purchased games in my queue that I "must" play before I allow myself to drop $60 on a new title.

Yay! Sensible man

One of the big reasons I tend to prefer turn based over real time with pause RPG mechanics is because turn based actually makes me feel like I'm more in control of what happens. Though I do love a number of RTwP games, so there is certainly something satisfying about games "playing themself."

I think sports games play themselves really well and end up being a ton of fun. Baseball in particular. I forget the name of it, but there was a baseball game not too long ago that essentially focused on managing rosters, developing a farm team, and handling the "macro" level while the games were simulated. You could dive into "manager mode" and handle the strategy of each individual game, but it never let you control the players. It just told you the outcome of the plays.

The earliest example I can think of for a game that "plays itself" is the original Dungeon Siege. For those that didn't play it: it's a party-based, isometric ARPG similar to Diablo 2. Anyway, in single-player mode you could set the behavior of your party with the UI.

Here's an image of the UI from the manual:

IMAGE(http://s8.postimg.org/673jvn8lh/image.jpg)

If you set the movement and attack orders to "freely" and your party was strong enough (or the difficulty was low enough), you could let go of the mouse and keyboard when you come upon an area of mobs, and the game would play itself for as long as there were monsters to aggro as your characters moved freely around the vicinity. Then you'd have to manually pick up all the loot that dropped and move on to the next mob.

Woo! Shout out for our GWJ crew at PAXAus!
Thanks Rabbit.

(And APErebus for the thread and MermaidPirate for the flag)

It was pretty great this year, getting bigger and better every time. Come visit us next year!

The games that play themselves topic is something I have struggled with a lot the last few years. I used to enjoy some of those games, and there are still some that I like, but more often than not lately, I feel like I'm doing a lot more watching than playing.

The mental shift happened around the time I got deep into (ready your beverages) the Souls series, and I haven't been able to get past it unless a game is doing something else noteworthy besides that basic gameplay.

Even the recent Shadows of Mordor is falling into this trap for me. I'm still playing because I'm fascinated by the Nemesis system and want to see where it goes, but if it weren't for that, I would have already put it down for something else.

I have a similar issue with the Batman games, now that I think about it. I sure do look cool while I'm fighting things, but most of the combat makes it seem like I'm just watching for prompts and pressing an occasional button in between. It really feels like I'm playing a slightly more interactive quick time event, and that is not a particularly rewarding feeling.

Great show this week guys.

I not only have a list, but I have a spreadsheet.

The first tab is my currently playing list with priorities and systems. The following tabs are for game types (RPG, RTS, Adventure, etc) which has a column for 'owned.' I used keep a list in Evernote, but it got too cumbersome to maintain.

So sounds like you guys though Civ was underwhelming. What do you think is the best alternative available right now?

Argh! Of course the only game I'm actually interested in this console generation Sunset Overdrive. It's just in keeping with my track record of desperately wanting the console performing worst in sales.

Too bad my wife won't have a Microsoft console in the house.

samoht9 wrote:

So sounds like you guys though Civ was underwhelming. What do you think is the best alternative available right now?

Assuming you mean alternative to a modern Alpha Centauri-like game, if you have Civ V with the G&K expansion, I would recommend getting the following mods and setting the starting era to at least Industrial, or even Modern:

Alpha Centauri Civilizations
Alpha Centauri Policies
Alpha Centauri Maps
Centauri City States
Beyond the future

Of course, you can always play SMAC itself ($6 at GOG) if you don't mind the antiquated UI. It holds up really well for a 15-year old game.

Also, there's Pandora: First Contact, but I haven't played it, so I can't say if it's good or not.

troubleshot wrote:

Woo! Shout out for our GWJ crew at PAXAus!
Thanks Rabbit.

(And APErebus for the thread and MermaidPirate for the flag)

It was pretty great this year, getting bigger and better every time. Come visit us next year!

Indeed, thanks for the mention guys. Would love to have one of the Conference Call crew - or any of the international GWJers - come to visit one year!

Thanks for the explanation on iRacing. (This is Robey...rhymes with Toby)

I agree with your insight that their marketing isn't up to par. Which is too bad really. I heard you mention that the game is not "Forza level" visually. Which is totally true, but I understand that the team at iRacing is moving to update their engine to DirectX11, which I hope would improve the games graphical fidelity. I never thought I'd be the guy to say graphics aren't important to me, because they totally are, but that's not what makes iRacing so fun.

Oh, and the guy's name is Michael Conti...the 17 year old that defeated the 2 time Champ Ray Alfalla...who is transitioning to that "real racing" thing, with real cars on real tracks. There are several NASCAR drivers that started out in iRacing and have moved into the sport. The whole thing is fascinating to me, and that's why I ramble so much.

I gotta say, if you're tempted to try the game DO IT! You won't be disappointed. Subs for new players are 50% off (and expect a sale during black friday deals perhaps? they've done it before). And they're always throwing out promotions. You DO have to purchase content as you progress, but that makes me really think about what I'm going to race in a given season (12 weeks) and focus on that content. If you automatically had every car and every track, sensory overload. You have to start in the rookie cars and build your knowledge as you move up (well, you don't HAVE to, but it's a good idea)

The community is great for the most part (a lot of retired guys that just love runnin around the tracks). I've had a few people yell at me for making rookie mistakes, to the which I reply "hey, i'm new here...trying to learn how this thing works" and they often apologize and tell me to keep practicing. lol

There are only 2 games I've ever paid subscription for, iRacing, and EVE online (though I quit playing EVE because I knew it would sooner become a ball and chain than a fun evening venture)

I've rambled enough about my "game of the year" I love it, and I really wish it got the attention it deserves.

I am always looking for a reason to bring up the old PS2 game "Carnage Heart". Talk about games playing themselves for you. If you haven't heard of it, you design your own mechs from the ground up, hardware AND software. Then you wind 'em up and let 'em battle it out. Their software controls how they engage with each other. I think this would be a great re-boot.

\o/

Shoutouts on the podcast!

Visit Australia!!!!!!!!!!!!

IMAGE(http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u440/Pants11/changinghuts_zps429cfb9f.jpg)

And Higgledy, I too have a notebook with "Games I want", written exclusively in mechanical pencil. I haven't updated it in a long time though, for various reasons (none of which are "I don't want any upcoming games" ;))

And I also have a spreadsheet of all ones I own, with filters and everything >_>

MeatMan wrote:
samoht9 wrote:

So sounds like you guys though Civ was underwhelming. What do you think is the best alternative available right now?

Assuming you mean alternative to a modern Alpha Centauri-like game, if you have Civ V with the G&K expansion, I would recommend getting the following mods and setting the starting era to at least Industrial, or even Modern:

Alpha Centauri Civilizations
Alpha Centauri Policies
Alpha Centauri Maps
Centauri City States
Beyond the future

Of course, you can always play SMAC itself ($6 at GOG) if you don't mind the antiquated UI. It holds up really well for a 15-year old game.

Also, there's Pandora: First Contact, but I haven't played it, so I can't say if it's good or not.

Wasn't aware of those mods. Will definitely need to grab those. Added Pandora: First Contact to my wish list as soon the sales gods will shine on us. I generally can't get over old UI systems unfortunately, but for $6 bucks it may be worth a shot. I unfortunately missed out on Alpha Centauri and honestly it feels like a bit of a hole.

Thanks for the info!

Weirdest picture to advertise Australia with there MermaidPirate...

Yeah yeah, melbourne has sh*t beaches, and you might mistake it for somewhere else, but I thought the huts were cool anyway. There's a space invader in there if you look hard enough

Put up your own Mr photographer ^_____^

Sean Sands should do an EU4 podcast. I'd totally listen to it every week. I would love to hear his thoughts on The Art of War expansion next time he is on.

Something he said in the "games that play themselves" discussion triggered a flash of a thought. I think I play EU and CK2 similar to a tower defense game. You set a goal, set things up, watch how it plays out, react when things deviate from the plan until the goal is achieved or utter disaster happens. Rinse and repeat. A lot of those games is spent waiting on things to happen. In fact, in almost all circumstances, doing nothing is not the worst thing you could do and frequently the best.

samoht9 wrote:

So sounds like you guys though Civ was underwhelming. What do you think is the best alternative available right now?

In my opinion, Endless Legend is the best Civ-like currently going. Better than Civ 5 even.

IMAGE(http://www.sunshinecoast.qld.gov.au/addfiles/documents/parks/mooloolaba_beach2.jpg)

IMAGE(http://www.mooloolabatourism.com.au/sites/default/files/nature_06c.jpg)

This is my local beach in Mooloolaba. The bench on the far right is where I proposed to my wife.

What I'm saying is more Goodjers need to come to the Sunshine Coast.

Glad to see the love for Sunset Overdrive. The game is really pretty entertaining but I wish there were more GWJers playing online.

Prozac wrote:

What I'm saying is more Goodjers need to come to the Sunshine Coast. :)

You heard the man, you're almost guaranteed to get a marriage proposal out of it!

(Gorgeous shots btw and nice spot to pop the question.)

I spent (checking calendar) from January 8th 1997 to something like July 1998 living in an apartment in Sydney on a silly corporate expense account, spending my weekends surfing and drinking and golfing and diving, with the occasional conjugal visit from my wife (whom I married on January 4th 1997).

I freaking LOVE Australia. I would move there for the right gig, and if I could afford the several thou it would take between airfare and whatnot, I'd be there for next year in a heartbeat.

rabbit wrote:

*Brag, brag, brag.*

The best "game that plays itself" I've ever played was Evil Genius.

I've literally set my guys up in that game and left it running for eight hours unattended while I went to work. When I came back, I had so much cash I didn't need to worry about base building ever again.

I need to go play that game again.

I keep a list of games to get, as well as a few albums, I recently added movies too.

Games that play themselves and no one mentions Progress Quest? For shame!