Crusader Kings II Sparkle Pony-all

hbi2k wrote:

So I caved an snagged the game through the Amazon sale. Apologies for being a filthy skimmer, but given that this sort of game can have kind of a steep learning curve and I don't have any experience with Paradox games (closest I've come has been the Civ series, which I've been playing since II), does anyone have any "I wish I'd known that when I started playing" style protips for me?

Went through the tutorials this afternoon, probably start up my first real game this evening.

Pro Tip: Trust No One.

hbi2k wrote:

So I caved an snagged the game through the Amazon sale. Apologies for being a filthy skimmer, but given that this sort of game can have kind of a steep learning curve and I don't have any experience with Paradox games (closest I've come has been the Civ series, which I've been playing since II), does anyone have any "I wish I'd known that when I started playing" style protips for me?

Went through the tutorials this afternoon, probably start up my first real game this evening.

The biggest one, that has applied to every Paradox game I've played, is that it's ok to go months of game-time without doing anything at all. These games aren't like Civ where you have stuff to do every turn.

billt721 wrote:
hbi2k wrote:

So I caved an snagged the game through the Amazon sale. Apologies for being a filthy skimmer, but given that this sort of game can have kind of a steep learning curve and I don't have any experience with Paradox games (closest I've come has been the Civ series, which I've been playing since II), does anyone have any "I wish I'd known that when I started playing" style protips for me?

Went through the tutorials this afternoon, probably start up my first real game this evening.

The biggest one, that has applied to every Paradox game I've played, is that it's ok to go months of game-time without doing anything at all. These games aren't like Civ where you have stuff to do every turn.

Hell, even years. This is definitely about the long game, and making no move is better than making a bad one.

Maybe I just have a weird play style, but I find that not to be the case very often with CK II.

absurddoctor wrote:

Maybe I just have a weird play style, but I find that not to be the case very often with CK II.

This is definitely not Europa Universalis III. There are a lot of things to be done in CK2. You will not find yourself just aimlessly waiting for something to happen. You exert far more control.

Woo hoo! Early birthday present for me! Thanks, Easter Amazon!

[strong][size=20]Antoon I "The Cruel", Duke of Flanders[/size][/strong]


[strong]Antoon I, Duke of Flanders[/strong] (20 March 1105 - 20 July 1157) was Duke of Orleans from 1132 until his death and Duke of Flanders from 1147 until his death.

He was the second son Bartolomeus I of Flanders and Duchess Ide or Orleans.

[strong][size=16]History[/size][/strong]


As Count of Amiens, Antoon purportedly imprisoned and executed the leaders of a peasant uprising, earning him the epithet "The Cruel". His actions throughout most of his life appears to support this soubriquet. Scholars have surmised that he may have suffered a form of megalomania perhaps exacerbated by the purported onset of syphilis. In any case, there are many reports in the historical record of his use of torture and arbitrary execution against those that he felt stood against his will.

Antoon's duel reigns of Orleans and later Flanders were marred by vassal revolts and peasant unrest. As Duke of Orleans, Antoon had to put down rebellions by the County of Blois (1136) and the County of Vendome (1141) along with many peasant uprisings.

Shortly after being crowned Duke of Flanders, the County of Hainaut rose in rebellion in early 1147. Later in 1147, Chartres also rebelled. In late 1147, the County of Reims rebelled as well. Despite almost over a third of his holding being in rebellion, Antoon was able to crush each rebellion thanks to the liberal use of the treasury his father, Bartolomeus I, left behind. The leaders of each rebellion were either executed or banished.

Antoon, having seemingly cowed his vassals, took eight years to recoup his treasury. During this time, the landscape in France changed. The Emirate of Toledo, in Iberia, began pushing across the Pyrenees during the early 1150's, invading the duchy of Aquitaine. Some of the independent dukes saw the need for a stronger central authority in France. The days of the Capetians were long gone. In 1155, the Duke of Champagne swore fealty to King Jaspert I of France. The Count of Limousin followed suit that year as well, with the Duke of Toulouse following in early 1157.

Antoon failed to see the change in the geopolitical landscape. Having come across a claim for the Duchy of Champagne, and judging the KIng of France to still be weak and ineffectual, he declared war on March of 1157. After some initial success in pushing the French forces back into Dijon, he was killed during the Battle of Pontigay on 20 July 1157.

[strong][size=16]Family[/size][/strong]


Antoon I was of the House of Flanders (van Vlanderren). In 1121, he married Gerda van Soissons, a courtier in Orleans. Gerda died in 1134 during childbirth of Belleassez. Antoon married Elisabeth de Bachaumont in 1135.

[strong]Father:[/strong] Bartolomeus I, Duke of Flanders
[strong]Mother:[/strong] Ide I, Duchess of Orleans
Antoon had three children with Gerda van Soissons:

  • Theodolf - Bishop of Christ CHhrch
  • Yolande - Queen of Denmark, married to King Ingolf I
  • Belleassez - stillborn

Antoon had four more children by Elisabeth de Bachaumont:

  • Ogier - Count of Amiens, later Duke of Flanders, Orleans, and Valois
  • Elisabeth - Queen of Brittany, married to King Budic I
  • Bouchard - Count of Blois, later Duke of Orleans
  • Eglantine - died young

(Out of context: this guy was a dandy, I was pretty happy to see him go.)

So I caved an snagged the game through the Amazon sale. Apologies for being a filthy skimmer, but given that this sort of game can have kind of a steep learning curve and I don't have any experience with Paradox games (closest I've come has been the Civ series, which I've been playing since II), does anyone have any "I wish I'd known that when I started playing" style protips for me?

Hover over the red opinion number to see why someone dislikes you, then you can figure out what to do to make them (and other whiners) feel better. This is essential on leadership changes, or when you take over a kingdom or the like, until you know what the usual causes are. If you have too many duchies, give some to your heir(s). You'll figure out what is causing you trouble with people pretty quickly. For serious cases, send your Chancellor to sway someone.

When you look at a county, you can click on a holding picture to open up a window of options for developing that holding. You can add defenses, or increase levies, or increase tax revenue, depending on what you build.

Check your clerics periodically. If they like the Pope more than you, they pay taxes to the Holy See instead of you. Send your religious advisor to talk to them.

When taking a county, the enemy needs to take all the holdings. Making each holding stronger will lengthen the siege time and give you more time in wars to deal with multiple enemies.

Matrilineal marriage allows the children of the married couple to take the name of the *mother*, not the father. They will be of the mother's dynasty, not the father's. This is for when you don't have any more male dynasty members, but you have a chance to marry off a female in the dynasty to breed more heirs. The opposite is just horrible - marrying a male of your dynasty and giving his kids to some other dynasty is about the worst mistake you can make... Use with care.

Amazon? And it installs on Steam? I'm not going to pass this opportunity up. Mind you I won't actually have time to play it for a couple of days...

hbi2k wrote:

So I caved an snagged the game through the Amazon sale. Apologies for being a filthy skimmer, but given that this sort of game can have kind of a steep learning curve and I don't have any experience with Paradox games (closest I've come has been the Civ series, which I've been playing since II), does anyone have any "I wish I'd known that when I started playing" style protips for me?

Went through the tutorials this afternoon, probably start up my first real game this evening.

To add to Robear's excellent advice:
- Concentrate on developing buildings in your demesne (stuff you directly own). You get 100% of the taxes in your demesne. If you build a building in a vassal's holding, you only get a percentage of the taxes (depends on how much they like you + your laws, usually it's 10% for temple holdings that like you more than the pope and 20% for cities at the start of the game, if your relationship is positive).
- Make sure your advisors are always doing something, even if it is "just" helping research better technologies.
- Try to build up a warchest; mercenaries can really save your butt in a pinch, but they are expensive to purchase and expensive to maintain and you don't want to owe them money. Trust me on this.
- Don't be discouraged if things don't go as planned. The game gives you ample opportunity to recover from pretty much anything. That said, always be planning ahead and have contingency plans, especially with regard to your heir. If you run out of heirs, it's game over.
- Akin to that, treat each "life" separately. Each person you play as should have their own goals and ambitions. CK2 is a long-form grand strategy game, sure, but it's also a game about people.

Can I just say how happy I am that this game is alt+tab friendly? 'Cause I'd be having a SERIOUSLY hard time otherwise.

Here's a question: I started out with the Duke of Munster, a little 2-county dude in Ireland, figuring that something small would be more manageable as I figure out what's what. Anyway, as I started out, the mayor in Ormond really hated me for whatever reason. I didn't do much to placate him, figuring that if he rebelled, it would give me a good excuse to fulfill my Ambition, which was to increase the size of my demesne.

That all worked out pretty well: he attacked me, I broke the back of his army, captured him, and stuck him in prison to rot. Hired up some mercs, marched over to Ormond and besieged the crap out of it until I was able to get him to surrender. I revoked his title and Ormand became part of my demesne.

Well, now I keep getting this alert telling me that I have the "wrong type of holding" in the County of Ormond. What does that mean? Is it saying I should appoint a new vassal to govern it instead of keeping it as part of my personal demesne?

I might want to do that anyway since I've got an unlanded son who needs a fief to govern, but I'm sort of thinking I want to wait on that so that I can use its levies to attack Desmond to the south (on which I have a de jure claim) once they reinforce.

hbi2k wrote:

Can I just say how happy I am that this game is alt+tab friendly? 'Cause I'd be having a SERIOUSLY hard time otherwise.

Here's a question: I started out with the Duke of Munster, a little 2-county dude in Ireland, figuring that something small would be more manageable as I figure out what's what. Anyway, as I started out, the mayor in Ormand really hated me for whatever reason. I didn't do much to placate him, figuring that if he rebelled, it would give me a good excuse to fulfill my Ambition, which was to increase the size of my demesne.

That all worked out pretty well: he attacked me, I broke the back of his army, captured him, and stuck him in prison to rot. Hired up some mercs, marched over to Ormand and besieged the crap out of it until I was able to get him to surrender. I revoked his title and Ormand became part of my demesne.

Well, now I keep getting this alert telling me that I have the "wrong type of holding" in the County of Ormand. What does that mean? Is it saying I should appoint a new vassal to govern it instead of keeping it as part of my personal demesne?

Yes, otherwise you will get a penalty for taxes in that province. Open the province and look at the main building (it's in the upper left). If it's a castle, you are good to go but if it's a temple or town, then you will receive less tax revenue from it. Other than that though, there's no harm in keeping it, so if you are not at your demesne limit, go ahead and keep it. Just make sure to hand it off first when you get more provinces.

Edit: sounds like your stealth edit indicates you are doing the expedient thing.

Okay, another question: besides the tooltip that tells you your next three heirs, is there a screen somewhere that gives you an overview of the current line of succession? Because right now thanks to Agnatic Seniority, my next three heirs are older than I am and unlikely to actually inherit unless I die by illness, accident, or foul play.

The "wrong type of holding" warning is just that you're holding a city or bishopric somewhere. This happens when you conquer a region usually. The easiest way to fix it is to select the new county, right click on the cities/bishoprics with your shield on them and select "create new vassal" and it'll get handed off to someone appropriate. Another way to go is is to look for a character without any titles you wish to please or bring to your court and give it to them through the diplomacy window.

My save game is broken. No more converting Scandinavia to the Norse faith. Very sad.

I just played my first hour, after doing all the tutorials (which were so basic they could have just left them out). Conclusion: this game is scary!

I started as Svend of Denmark, who's a healthy man apparently with plenty of children. He was unmarried, so I chose the 'get married' ambition and checked for marriage candidates. I found a Basque princess who gave me some prestige, had a good diplomacy check (half of which counts towards mine). She might give me some offspring as well with her 26 years. Those will come in handy for my next ambition of having 20 kids

After one hour I had SO many questions though:
- I got a message from my wife that she wants children. Should I act on this? Is there a bow-chica-bow-wow button or something?
- One of my many daughters was asked to marry a Swedish prince, and I agreed. I have no idea what the consequences will be, or how I can find out.
- I got a 2.25 prestige hit per month because 5 sons had no land titles. I just arbitrarily gave 4 of them with the highest management skills some of my lands, but was this a smart thing to do? Will this mean war when ole' Svend dies?

dejanzie wrote:

- I got a message from my wife that she wants children. Should I act on this? Is there a bow-chica-bow-wow button or something?

The only time you're given a to-bone-or-not-to-bone choice is with mistresses. With married couples, it's simply assumed that you're boning a normal amount of the time. As long as you're both of babymaking age and neither of you have any negative modifiers to your fertility (such as homosexuality, syphilis, the Chaste trait, etc.) all you have to do is wait.

- I got a 2.25 prestige hit per month because 5 sons had no land titles. I just arbitrarily gave 4 of them with the highest management skills some of my lands, but was this a smart thing to do? Will this mean war when ole' Svend dies?

Depends on the succession laws. I guess if you have Gavelkind it might be a problem, but I haven't messed around with Gavelkind (I started out Agnatic Seniority and changed it to Agnatic-Cognatic Primogeniture) so I don't know the details.

The other disadvantage to handing out lands to vassals (whether they're your kids or not) is that you don't get as many levies and taxes as if they're under your direct control, just a percentage based on how much the vassal likes you / some other factors that I haven't quite wrapped my brain around yet. You're right, this game is complicated!

I'm so intimidated by this game. The tutorial is doing nothing for me.

I love how the NYTimes article on this game made my wife go: "Wow! That sounds fun!"

I had heard a bit about the game (and about how daunting it is) and read the article and was really surprised at how the Times made no mention of the incredibly steep learning curve. They really make it sound like a history-buff's role-playing wet dream, but they forget to mention that that means you have to ingest and process vast amounts of data in order to create a story-line like they describe.

Almost seemed like they were making a conscious decision not to mention it, which makes it feel a bit like a weird advertisement rather than an honest assessment. It was like they were trying to convince/trick people who aren't into games into trying it out.

My wife has NO love for complicated system games, so it felt like an honest marker of how off this article is.

Anyone else find this weird?

Thanks for sharing that article. It is very cool to see a game by Paradox of all developers getting coverage like that.

About the lack of warning, yes it does differ from how people usually talk about games like this. That said, the article has a lasered-in focus on one aspect of the game and how the writer related to it. There are a whole host of normal video game review type of things that aren't mentioned. The point that hit home the most for me was "seriously intelligent strategy games don’t get much attention these days." That implies to me that a certain level of investment is required beyond what most associate with games now.

dejanzie wrote:

- One of my many daughters was asked to marry a Swedish prince, and I agreed. I have no idea what the consequences will be, or how I can find out.

hbi2k got the others, I'll take this one: your daughter is no longer part of your dynasty (unless the marriage was matrilineal which is unlikely because kings just don't marry that way). So any children she has by her husband will be of his dynasty. What this means is that she and her heirs will not really interact with you, so you can forget about them for all practical purposes. Unless of course your realm is close to Sweden, in which case you may end up having a war with your grandchildren.

tboon wrote:
dejanzie wrote:

- One of my many daughters was asked to marry a Swedish prince, and I agreed. I have no idea what the consequences will be, or how I can find out.

hbi2k got the others, I'll take this one: your daughter is no longer part of your dynasty (unless the marriage was matrilineal which is unlikely because kings just don't marry that way). So any children she has by her husband will be of his dynasty. What this means is that she and her heirs will not really interact with you, so you can forget about them for all practical purposes. Unless of course your realm is close to Sweden, in which case you may end up having a war with your grandchildren. :)

Well he probably has an alliance with them now. So you will be called upon to do war on their enemies. But you can call on them too.

Ariskany Evan wrote:

I love how the NYTimes article on this game made my wife go: "Wow! That sounds fun!"

I had heard a bit about the game (and about how daunting it is) and read the article and was really surprised at how the Times made no mention of the incredibly steep learning curve. They really make it sound like a history-buff's role-playing wet dream, but they forget to mention that that means you have to ingest and process vast amounts of data in order to create a story-line like they describe.

Almost seemed like they were making a conscious decision not to mention it, which makes it feel a bit like a weird advertisement rather than an honest assessment. It was like they were trying to convince/trick people who aren't into games into trying it out.

My wife has NO love for complicated system games, so it felt like an honest marker of how off this article is.

Anyone else find this weird?

There is a lot to learn, but I'm not its fair to say it has a steep learning curve. It is very possible to play a very long game, fairly successfully, while ignoring most of the complexity.

NathanialG wrote:
tboon wrote:
dejanzie wrote:

- One of my many daughters was asked to marry a Swedish prince, and I agreed. I have no idea what the consequences will be, or how I can find out.

hbi2k got the others, I'll take this one: your daughter is no longer part of your dynasty (unless the marriage was matrilineal which is unlikely because kings just don't marry that way). So any children she has by her husband will be of his dynasty. What this means is that she and her heirs will not really interact with you, so you can forget about them for all practical purposes. Unless of course your realm is close to Sweden, in which case you may end up having a war with your grandchildren. :)

Well he probably has an alliance with them now. So you will be called upon to do war on their enemies. But you can call on them too.

Thanks, guys. Daughters are diplomatic boosters, got it. I'll marry off any daughter without particular skills, unless I'm about to declare war on the demanding party of course

Gotta love Medieval society

Also, I'm disappointed about the lack of a bow-chica-bow-wow button. Should be in the next DLC!

Since my Norse game died I am now Looking to create the kingdom of Sicily and play a game of Eugenics. Every marriage into my realm has to bring in a positive genetic trait (Genius, Strong, Attractive, Quick). My ultimate goal is to see if I can enrich a small nations gene pool and create the Glorious PC Gaming Master race.

IMAGE(http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs44/f/2009/140/2/2/PC_Gaming_Master_Race_by_Claidheam_Righ.jpg)

All hail our Sicilian overlords!

Prozac wrote:

Since my Norse game died I am now Looking to create the kingdom of Sicily and play a game of Eugenics. Every marriage into my realm has to bring in a positive genetic trait (Genius, Strong, Attractive, Quick, Sexy). My ultimate goal is to see if I can enrich a small nations gene pool and create the Glorious PC Gaming Master race.

IMAGE(http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs44/f/2009/140/2/2/PC_Gaming_Master_Race_by_Claidheam_Righ.jpg)

There, fixed that for you. Useful for procreation.

What this game really needs more than anything is a Civilopedia-style quick-reference system where you could look up game concepts and obscure terms. The tooltips are okay, but sometimes I need to go into more depth.

Failing that, a decent fan wiki would be nice, but the only one that turns up on Google is pretty anemic. Guess the game just hasn't been out long enough for those sorts of fan-run resources to crystallize.

Ask questions here.

The game really is easier than EU3, which is one of the more accessibly Paradox games. The tooltips really help. Read the earlier parts of the thread for some ideas on how to proceed. Remember, Paradox makes "hands off" strategy games, you don't have to micromanage everything.

Oh, and get in the habit of hovering over and then clicking on everything - info bars, pictures, etc. - to see whether they have a menu attached. Right click is used on portraits to get a menu choice.

I really wish that you could search characters by traits. The number of times I've had to scroll endlessly through lists trying to find future brides for newly born kinsmen that meet my Eugenics criteria.

On the up side, Starting out as Count Robert of Capua I raised the money to create the Duchy of Capua, used my de jure claim to annex Napoli, embarked on a series of 4 successful Holy wars with one mercenary band that netted me Malta, Trepani, Girgenti, Palermo and Siracusa from the infidels. I held off a retaliatory attack from Africa, then a second retaliatory attack, this time from Tripolitania. Upon finishing that war I noticed that the Duke of Calabria (Messina, Reggio and Catanzaro) had embraced the Lollard Heresy. I prompty sailed the Merc army back across the Malta Channel and annexed the Duchy of Calabria. The Pope loves me with all these Holy wars and has helped fund my efforts with the odd 200 gold thrown my way every now and again which has kept the merc war machine turning.

dejanzie wrote:

I just played my first hour, after doing all the tutorials (which were so basic they could have just left them out). Conclusion: this game is scary!

Honestly, the tooltips do a better job of teaching you the game than the tutorials. They really are terrible, I didn't even bother with anything after the first level.