Crusader Kings II Spirit-all

If they didn’t do the DLC as they did, we’d be on CK6 by now, and we’d have paid at least as much to get here...

Godzilla Blitz wrote:

I wonder how polarizing this release will be because of Paradox's DLC policy. CK2 is a poster child for their base game + oodles of DLC strategy. I've always been fine with it, but there are many who despise it. And CK2 has had so much added to it over the years that I could see any CK3 base game seeming barren until the DLC catches up.

From the previews they've done so far it looks like some of stuff that was in the DLCs for CK2 will be in the base game for CK3: the map will extend to India off the bat, with most of those characters playable, etc. And the stuff that they're adding like knights, on-map baronies, and more detail in the characters sounds like it'll feel pretty dense to begin with. We'll see, of course, how it actually feels when it launches.

Robear wrote:

They did do a sort of fog of war to represent the Americas, didn’t they? Or was that EUIV? That makes sense, given that it was actually Terra Incognita for the Europeans of the time.

That's EU and you literally named the gameplay mechanic.

Godzilla Blitz wrote:

I wonder how polarizing this release will be because of Paradox's DLC policy. CK2 is a poster child for their base game + oodles of DLC strategy. I've always been fine with it, but there are many who despise it. And CK2 has had so much added to it over the years that I could see any CK3 base game seeming barren until the DLC catches up.

I think that it's kind of silly, really. CK2 is a bit bloated now and trimming some stuff while keeping others is a welcome thing. It mostly will come down to how much CK3 plays like CK2 and CK3 is sounding fairly different.

This series isn't like Civilization where the removal of, say, spying makes the game feel like there's an entire part of the game missing until the expansions because there are only so many gameplay systems in Civilization. CK is a mess of gameplay systems, so even if it's missing some of the cool features from CK2, it's sure to have loads of depth from the outset. Hell, vanilla CK2 + patches is one hell of a game. I expect CK3 to be somewhere on par with that experience.

I feel pretty safe in feeling this way because it's an evolution of the series and not Paradox trying to find their way like Stellaris, which was incomplete at launch and is still not quite right.

tanstaafl wrote:

It looks like they're adding a tutorial mode to the game...

Introducing the Monarch's Journey

Huh, that's neat. I'll be curious how it plays. Might be worth giving a shot.

Gremlin wrote:

Though there were a couple of old games like the Merchant Prince series that had the cool feature that the fog of war was overlaid with a rough sketch of the map...but the sketched map could be very inaccurate and the actual terrain was different.

I loved that and have always wished someone else would pick that up and do something similar. EU4 just has Terra Incognita which hides the map - not just the New World but parts you don't know about at all (like starting as France, you cannot see India or Eastern Asia), which is good as far as it goes but it would be cool to have the map show parts you "kind of" know about be incorrect and slowly become filled in and corrected over time. Even by the end of the EU4 time period (1821), there were still many parts of the globe that Europeans still had missing or just "penciled" in on their maps, like the interior of the African continent as an example.

Here there be dagrons

Gremlin wrote:
Godzilla Blitz wrote:

I wonder how polarizing this release will be because of Paradox's DLC policy. CK2 is a poster child for their base game + oodles of DLC strategy. I've always been fine with it, but there are many who despise it. And CK2 has had so much added to it over the years that I could see any CK3 base game seeming barren until the DLC catches up.

From the previews they've done so far it looks like some of stuff that was in the DLCs for CK2 will be in the base game for CK3: the map will extend to India off the bat, with most of those characters playable, etc. And the stuff that they're adding like knights, on-map baronies, and more detail in the characters sounds like it'll feel pretty dense to begin with. We'll see, of course, how it actually feels when it launches.

That's a great preview article, thanks for the link.

It certainly does sound like the game will be substantially deep and quite a bit different from CK2. I can see myself going one of two ways. Either I'll play CK3 for an hour or so and think, "Okay, I'll go back to CK2 until they release a few more DLCs." or "Wow, I'm never going back to CK2. This is so much better." I hope it's the latter.

Two things from the article that really piqued my interest...

1 - A more refined genetics system. I could see this being a lot of fun, within reason. I hope there is still a degree of randomness involved so that descendants don't become overly predictable.

2 - A stress mechanic that makes it more challenging to play against your character's inherent personality and traits. This sounds quite cool. Right now there are only subtle differences in how you can play characters based on personalities. In effect, role playing is an option that's easily pushed aside. I'm really interested to see how this one plays out.

Godzilla Blitz wrote:

It certainly does sound like the game will be substantially deep and quite a bit different from CK2. I can see myself going one of two ways. Either I'll play CK3 for an hour or so and think, "Okay, I'll go back to CK2 until they release a few more DLCs." or "Wow, I'm never going back to CK2. This is so much better." I hope it's the latter.

The only real "modern" examples we have to go by are EU3->EU4 and HOI3->HOI4.

I played a lot of EU3 (which I loved despite the many warts it had even at the end) but EU4 was different enough that, when it came out, I never went back to EU3.

HOI3->HOI4 was a harder move for me to make. While appreciating the streamlining of a lot of crazy systems (like trade, which always went to AI controlled, so why was it even in there?), some of the streamlining changed quite a bit things I actually enjoyed (like research, which could be baroque as hell but was super interesting and something I never automated). Eventually, I came around to HOI4 but it was a harder sale to me.

I think CK2->CK3 will most likely be more like the EU3-4 than HOI3->4 moves since it is less chunky/wargamey. I expect that CK3 will contain the "final"-ish version of the CK2 systems and that some systems will be so radically different that I will never miss them.

Robear wrote:

That's an interesting thought, JR, but what effect does it really have to have instant info in the medieval world? I suspect that fog of war really matters when armies can move faster than information, but that's not at all true in the period of the game. Whether you are getting delayed or instant info in the Middle Ages doesn't really make a functional difference on a strategic scale.

Military maneuvers are one thing, but it was always kind of weird that I can open a spreadsheet and scour Europe for Genius infants whose parents are dissatisfied with their current positions.

Yeah, knowing the stats is always a tradeoff, but they did change that system somewhat; people could have their potential stunted or redirected by their upbringing now. But the status of people in and around a court was always a top priority for gossip, and spread widely and quickly. Everyone was looking for good staff.

Let's focus on the important possibility, finally getting Sunset Invasions 2.

Paradox is also giving away the Viking DLC if you sign up for a Paradox account. Free Steam key.

Michael wrote:

Let's focus on the important possibility, finally getting Sunset Invasions 2.

Don't let the door hit you...

Spoiler:

;)

Not even funny at all Michael.

How hilarious would it be if they shipped with Sunset 2 baked in as a toggle on the game setup screen just for the lulz.

You people are horrible.

garion333 wrote:

USGamer has a couple articles on CK2:

https://www.usgamer.net/articles/how...

https://www.usgamer.net/articles/end...

Marvelous! So excited, thanks for sharing!

And this one too on 12 CK3 questions.

The first dev diary is up, highlighting the new dynasty system: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...

Started a new game in England for no real reason a week and a half ago. Finally got in a position to declare Britannia with the heir to the queen who's been on the throne for over fifty years. Suddenly nobody liked him despite giving out every landed title possible. Then noticed he had the Cannibal trait. Thanks, CK2.

Rat Boy wrote:

Started a new game in England for no real reason a week and a half ago. Finally got in a position to declare Britannia with the heir to the queen who's been on the throne for over fifty years. Suddenly nobody liked him despite giving out every landed title possible. Then noticed he had the Cannibal trait. Thanks, CK2.

Haha. That would surely explain things.

Has anyone putzed around with the missions in CK 2 that will unlock things in CK 3?

Godzilla Blitz wrote:
Rat Boy wrote:

Started a new game in England for no real reason a week and a half ago. Finally got in a position to declare Britannia with the heir to the queen who's been on the throne for over fifty years. Suddenly nobody liked him despite giving out every landed title possible. Then noticed he had the Cannibal trait. Thanks, CK2.

Haha. That would surely explain things.

Has anyone putzed around with the missions in CK 2 that will unlock things in CK 3?

That’s a thing???

^Yep!

"The Monarch’s Journey is a new way of exploring the world of Crusader Kings and will help you earn cosmetic add-ons for Crusader Kings III through Ruler Challenges."

So let's see, the cannibal became emperor of Britannia, and he was also a lunatic so when the pope called on all good Catholic leaders to go on a crusade to claim Egypt, the emperor consulted with his best friend, the octopus, on military strategy. He took 14,000 men to Egypt, lost ten thousand, sent his son off to govern Benghazi (I sh*t you not), and died of depression on the voyage home. His son, the second emperor of Britannia, also died of depression. His daughter, who would have been the last member of the House of Wessex to be a ruler if she died before I changed out the succession rules to Elective Gavelkind, died infirmed. Now her cousin runs the show, for now. I've somehow for the first time ever crossed the 55K point total and it's only 1138 (I sh*t you not again).