Home Theater catch-all

WizKid wrote:

How would I go about testings these 4 speakers?

If you have anything with speaker outputs, you could just hook it up to each connection and check for output. If you don't, just go to a goodwill and get a boombox or receiver of some sort for cheap that has stereo hookups. I'm sure there's a way to do it electrically, but I'd rather make sure you're getting decent sound out of it and the speaker isn't blown or anything.

Also worth a thought, if I had speakers already mounted in the ceiling I'd probably lean toward making sure I got a receiver that would do 5.1.2 or 5.1.4 and use the ceiling speakers for Atmos/DTS:X height channels.

The list of movies with 7.1 audio tracks is actually relatively small, but more and more are coming out with Atmos support. In fact I bet if I were to count it I already have more Atmos movies than I do movies with legit 7.1 tracks. Having in-ceiling speakers already in place for Atmos' height channels is a nice jump start on that.

Though I would also be wrong not to at least point out that the only way to get Atmos tracks right now as far as I know is on blu-ray discs. And even then about a third of the time the Atmos track is only included on the 4k version of the disc and not the regular 1080p blu ray. So if you don't watch things that way it might be moot.

If you're streaming all your media it's all 5.1 anyway.

Agree with Thin_J but it depends where the speakers are located. If they after in a surround position they won't work well as height channels (at least one pair should be up front). I believe Netflix/Vudu uhd content do support Atmos. It's compressed, but at least cheaper than buying physical discs if you're a regular Netflix user.

I don't know about Vudu, but Netflix as I understood it doesn't actually stream anything with Atmos?

I have a 5.1.2 setup (5.1.4 receivers are still $1000+ ) and definitely don't get Atmos out of any Netflix content.

Some receivers do have a weird label where they show netflix 4K titles as DD+ +ATMOS/Surround but it's not actually an Atmos track. It's just DD+ and the receiver uses the same secondary label for +Surround and Atmos.

Thin_J wrote:

I don't know about Vudu, but Netflix as I understood it doesn't actually stream anything with Atmos?

I have a 5.1.2 setup (5.1.4 receivers are still $1000+ ) and definitely don't get Atmos out of any Netflix content.

Some receivers do have a weird label where they show netflix 4K titles as DD+ +ATMOS/Surround but it's not actually an Atmos track. It's just DD+ and the receiver uses the same secondary label for +Surround and Atmos.

This site says there are Atmos demos on Vudu that might be worth trying, but yeah they too couldn't find any Atmos-enabled movies on Netflix. Dolby does claim Atmos is available on at least some streaming services. Maybe it's only Vudu for now.

The in ceiling speakers are behind the couch, so I'm not sure they would work with ATMOS.

WizKid wrote:

The in ceiling speakers are behind the couch, so I'm not sure they would work with ATMOS.

Behind the couch is fine for rear height channels. But yeah if you don't want to also do fronts it's not worthwhile.

Coming over from the TV thread. I bought a Vizio P-65 4k tv and now have to redo my setup so looking for suggestions.

Ry receiver is a Denon AVR-591 and right now it is setup like this:

Cable box > Xbox > AVR > HDMI 1
PS4 > AVR > HDMI 1
PC > AVR > HDMI 1
Vizio optical out > AVR (for chromecasting)

Future device changes:
Nintendo Switch
Swap XBO to Scorpio

So now it appears I either need to get a new Receiver with HDMI 2.0a support or route everything to the TV then just audio back to the receiver. Looking for suggestions on what would be best for format support but also good for input lag while gaming. I haven't used it yet but it appears my receiver supports ARC if that helps.

https://www.cnet.com/products/denon-...

EvilDead wrote:

Coming over from the TV thread. I bought a Vizio P-65 4k tv and now have to redo my setup so looking for suggestions.

Ry receiver is a Denon AVR-591 and right now it is setup like this:

Cable box > Xbox > AVR > HDMI 1
PS4 > AVR > HDMI 1
PC > AVR > HDMI 1
Vizio optical out > AVR (for chromecasting)

Future device changes:
Nintendo Switch
Swap XBO to Scorpio

So now it appears I either need to get a new Receiver with HDMI 2.0a support or route everything to the TV then just audio back to the receiver. Looking for suggestions on what would be best for format support but also good for input lag while gaming. I haven't used it yet but it appears my receiver supports ARC if that helps.

https://www.cnet.com/products/denon-...

running everything through the TV will minimize input lag. Using ARC from your TV to receiver means giving up lossless audio quality. If you mostly watch streaming content, this doesn't matter, but if you watch Blu Ray, you might care.

I know a lot of people run everything to the TV and then run a line out from the TV to the audio source. I've always wondered how cable management works for that. My TV's hung on the wall, and I can't imagine wanting 4 HDMI cables running up to the TV, then another running back down to the receiver. I ran a single cable up through the wall to the TV to avoid that. What am I missing?

I don't know how many do this, but the Samsung TV I bought last year has a breakout box that has, I think, 3 HDMI inputs. One cord to the TV and (for us) the box rests behind the soundbar with the other cords, sight unseen.

Chaz wrote:

I know a lot of people run everything to the TV and then run a line out from the TV to the audio source. I've always wondered how cable management works for that. My TV's hung on the wall, and I can't imagine wanting 4 HDMI cables running up to the TV, then another running back down to the receiver. I ran a single cable up through the wall to the TV to avoid that. What am I missing?

I would have to run them behind the wall. That many cords would probably mean that I would need to make the holes that are already in the wall bigger.

Chairman_Mao wrote:

running everything through the TV will minimize input lag. Using ARC from your TV to receiver means giving up lossless audio quality. If you mostly watch streaming content, this doesn't matter, but if you watch Blu Ray, you might care.

That is pretty annoying. I'm surprised these kind compromises haven't been figured out by now. So is that really only an issue for Blurays or does it affect gaming as well?

Most people don't wall mount, which makes hiding cables easier. But I don't think most new receivers add much input lag these days, so I'd always try to run cables through it if possible.

EvilDead wrote:

That is pretty annoying. I'm surprised these kind compromises haven't been figured out by now. So is that really only an issue for Blurays or does it affect gaming as well?

The only way it could affect a game is if your TV doesn't support sending whatever 5.1 format it chooses back to the receiver.

Most games will just run basic DD 5.1 or PCM 5.1, which any modern TV should support. Should. Unfortunately the only way I know of to be truly sure what your TV will work with is just testing things out.

My dad's TV says it supports full 5.1 over ARC but it absolutely will not do it with his Sony reciever or my Denon that I threw in his setup to test exactly that. The receiver only ever gets stereo signals back from the TV no matter how you set the TV's audio settings. And it's such a rarely used feature on his particular model of TV there's absolutely zero discussion about it online.

So, it seems the best and easiest solution would be a new receiver since my Denon only has 1.4a ports? Any recommendations for a sub $300 low latency receiver with 2.0a ports?

Edit: I'm also reading that all HDMI ports on the P series vizios are not created equal. Apparently HDMI port 5 has a lower latency than the others but I can't figure out if there are disadvantages to using that one. So many things to research!

EvilDead wrote:

That is pretty annoying. I'm surprised these kind compromises haven't been figured out by now. So is that really only an issue for Blurays or does it affect gaming as well?

Coincidentally, How-To Geek had an article about this the other day. Even they resorted to "Read your manual, it's not totally standardized."

EvilDead wrote:

So, it seems the best and easiest solution would be a new receiver since my Denon only has 1.4a ports? Any recommendations for a sub $300 low latency receiver with 2.0a ports?

Edit: I'm also reading that all HDMI ports on the P series vizios are not created equal. Apparently HDMI port 5 has a lower latency than the others but I can't figure out if there are disadvantages to using that one. So many things to research!

Port 5 latency is lower, but it does not support HDR. The latency on the other ports isn't that bad though. Unless you're a pretty twitch gamer, you probably won't notice.

Unfortunately I haven't seen much info on how much input lag receivers introduce, which makes me think it's pretty minimal these days. You can't really go wrong with Onkyo/Denon/Yamaha these days. I think Denon had the easiest user interface though.

I'm going to do some testing this weekend, if I can find time, to see how well the ARC works. Until I get the Scorpio, and the new receiver, I will have the Cable > XBox > AVR > HDMI 5. Then the PC and PS4 will have to go to their own HDMI ports for 4k and HDR respectively.

Speaking of receiver lag I was just reading a post on the AVS forums where someone tested the 9xxx series Denon and it only added 1-2 ms on game mode. I'm guessing that will be the same for their whole recent lineup. I just need to find the model that supports my budget and input needs.

T-Prime wrote:
EvilDead wrote:

That is pretty annoying. I'm surprised these kind compromises haven't been figured out by now. So is that really only an issue for Blurays or does it affect gaming as well?

Coincidentally, How-To Geek had an article about this the other day. Even they resorted to "Read your manual, it's not totally standardized."

Thanks for that. It does sound like kind of a crapshoot. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

So here's a question. I've got a Denon receiver that I like (though I wish there were more than 4 HDMI inputs). The house we own came with four Cambridge Soundworks speakers wall-mounted in the living room, with wiring in the walls. Great! I had an old set of Onkyo speakers from my first HTIB setup, so I'm using the center and sub from that.

However, I've never been super happy with the sound coming out of that center. Dialog is frequently hard to hear, even after doing the automatic calibration and then manually bumping the center channel's levels up by a fair amount. I'd like to get a new center, but I'm worried about matching the front L/R speakers. How do you go about finding a new center to match existing speakers?

The other option: replace the whole thing with a Sonos 5.1 system. I can use my employee discount to get the whole setup for about $800. The potential down sides: I can't easily wall mount the rear surrounds, since they need a power plug. I'm also committing to a proprietary system that becomes useless if the company stops supporting it. Advantage is that it should sound pretty damn nice, and if we move, setting up in the new house should be easy, since I won't have to worry about running wires.

So, find a reasonly-priced replacement center speaker, or upgrade to the fancy system?

I wouldn't worry too much about "matching" Find a speaker in your price range that you like and you'll be fine. The receiver will take care of things for you.

How does one even find a speaker you like? I think the only speaker seller around me would be something like Best Buy, but I'm not sure how to test their speakers out in a big, loud store.

Chaz wrote:

How does one even find a speaker you like? I think the only speaker seller around me would be something like Best Buy, but I'm not sure how to test their speakers out in a big, loud store.

I'd actually look for a local dedicated home theater or audio shop for the purpose of shopping. They do still exist though there's often only one within a reasonable distance.

I compared speakers in a couple of those a long while back and then just used my phone to compare prices with Amazon. I think I bought my rear channels there and ordered my front towers and center on Amazon. The rears were like $20 more online but everything else was cheaper. I think. My memory isn't amazing.

The other good thing about physically looking at the speakers is that many of them tend to be much larger than they might seem in pictures. If you have any limits on space at all it's something to consider.

I ended up buying a Bic America DV62CLRS for my center and it's been great. Biggish though. Only just barely fits in between the shelves on my TV stand, but was the match for my towers and rear channels.

That was ~4 years ago though. I think right now the standard recommend for great home theater speakers at a reasonable price is still the Andrew Jones designed Pioneer SP series speakers.

Ooh, $100 for a center is pretty reasonable.

Chaz wrote:

Ooh, $100 for a center is pretty reasonable.

Speakers are a thing where, with some research and shopping, you can get about 90% of the sound quality for like 25% of the price. Diminishing returns for dollars spent hits super hard super fast.

Go buy these. You'll be amazed.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...

Thumbs up to what JC recommended. For the price point, that set is amazing.

Interesting. I don't know if my wife will be down with replacing the whole thing, but that's certainly a reasonable price for doing it. The other wrinkle is that the front right speaker is actually sitting in a cutout in the soffit, so replacing that one may require some cutting.

I'm kind of thinking just replacing the center now, and switching to a Sonos system if we move houses might be the way to go.

I compared speakers in a couple of those a long while back and then just used my phone to compare prices with Amazon.

If you want the store to still be there the next time you want speakers, this is a very bad idea. It is not cheap to pay the rent to set up any kind of listening area, and if you use their facilities but then buy online, you might as well be reaching into the till and taking money with you when you walk out.

If you want great speakers, ones that truly suit your ears, you need to hear them yourself. Making sure to buy local helps to ensure that the facilities will be there, both for you and for others. It's a great idea to bargain with them, show what you can get the speakers for online... no problem there. But it's important to funnel the money into the places that let you listen to what you're buying.

Energy 5.1 Take Classic

I'm still using a set of Energy Take 2s that I bought in the mid-90s. They sound absolutely splendid. If the Take Classics are anything like that, those will be lovely speakers.

In all these years, more than twenty, the only thing I've had to do to them is reglue their fronts, as the rubber cement they originally used was finally wearing out. (I'm sure they used that to help prevent resonance.) I actually contacted them to ask what glue they'd used, but they aren't the same company they were, and the people I was asking had no idea.

Malor wrote:
I compared speakers in a couple of those a long while back and then just used my phone to compare prices with Amazon.

If you want the store to still be there the next time you want speakers, this is a very bad idea.

I don't have infinite dollars. If they want me to buy everything there and not just certain parts, they can price match. If they won't... that's on them.