In which Zak S makes new friends

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He's a painter, a porn actor, and an advocate of the American automobile of table-top RPGs, Dungeons & Dragons. Recent star of the Tropes Vs. Women thread, we present Zak S.

Any background anyone cares to add (because I can't be arsed to) would be appreciated.

A thread that is often complained about for being too P&C to not be in P&C having a thread split because it was getting off topic regarding the P of its particular C, where said split goes to P&C, feels very meta to me.

Bloo Driver wrote:

A thread that is often complained about for being too P&C to not be in P&C having a thread split because it was getting off topic regarding the P of its particular C, where said split goes to P&C, feels very meta to me.

I have no idea what you're even trying to say there. Trying to parse this sentence gave me a headache.

Ooh, I think I might enjoy reading this thread. Tagged.

So while I'm posting, a terrible, terrible joke that came to mind while reading the other thread: What do you call a male chauvinist pig?

Spoiler:

A misowginist.

Hey I'm a writer, DND player, and porn connosiuer- where's my thread?!?

In all seriousness, Zak and his little entourage could make any GWJ slap and tickle a lot more interesting.

Since this particular line of conversation was shut down, I want to point out that even though Natalie Reed hasn't heard of it, 'morphodite' qualifies as a trans slur.

While it's fallen out of common use, it's a colloquial version of hermaphrodite, when applied to people, especially intersex or trans people, it's considered offensive.

e: Zak drops the slur here

And plays it off as satire, badly, here.

That's too bad. It sounds like an awesome term for, like, a robot dinosaur Decepticon.

As for my alleged general transphobia, anyone claiming that would have to explain why I am constantly a booster, fan, correspondent, and friend of trans people:
http://dndwithpornstars.blogspot.com...

So, SocialChameleon, you are in error.

As a general rule, when someone is telling you that a word is a slur and should not be used... this is not the correct response. I have a black friend, just because she might not be offended by me dropping the n-word doesn't mean I have free reign to use it everywhere or act like it's fine if it offends some people because it doesn't offend other people.

Nope. I posted my opinion that your claim of using the word satirically was weak and open to interpretation, and didn't find your explanation credible. I will not apologize for having this opinion.

I have nothing to say about you and your general attitudes toward trans people, only the specific trans slur you used and your reaction when called on it.

e: Further, are you a trans person? Because I am - so please, continue to tell me what trans slurs are okay to use as long as you can say you used them about yourself.

Ok: if any trans- person anywhere on the planet from now until the end of time believes that was an attack on them instead of a joke about the hilariously toxic, hostile, and bigoted atmosphere of Something Awful's Grognards.txt thread and the meaningless omnidirectional outrage people who post there and, for years, have held a grudge because I didn't play the same game as them, I apologize for any pain it may have caused them.

It was unintentional, like accidentally leaving magnetic letters on the fridge in the wrong order.

As for you, SocialChameleon, you still have not explained why you claimed I was "playing it off badly": I was giving a 100% true explanation, which matches what I say here today now as well as all available facts.

I just did. It's entirely possible to rip on grogs.txt without using trans slurs to do it. I didn't claim you were lying, I said your explanation "it was a joke where I pretended to be a bad person" was a weak excuse.

"Weak excuse". Incorrect. It was a "true explanation".

When you use the word "weak" what does this word mean to you?

"Implausible"? Well, it was true and fairly obvious. So obvious everyone here can read it and see it.
"Incorrect"? This suggests I am still lying, which I am not. And there is zero evidence I was.

I suggest your motives for pointing this out are not pure. I think you have an axe to grind and are using this teeny sliver of an argument to try to grind it, SocialChameleon.

I had no idea who you even were until two days ago, dude. You used a trans slur and tried to justify it by saying the goons were mean to you.

I am a trans woman who was offended at your use of a slur against people like me and your attempts to make excuses for it. That's where my interest in you begins and ends.

Zak S wrote:

I had heard that word used once before, in the movie Stand By Me. I'd never heard it in any trans- context, didn't know what it meant.

So your excuse is that you were trying to be clever and insult someone on an internet forum using a word you had only heard once in an 80s children's movie and didn't even know what it meant?

Never mind that there literally is no non-trans context of the word considering its etymology.

I'll just throw my word-use treatise out there as my comments on all of this.

Zak S wrote:

Yyyyyyyyyyup. Because the people on the forum talk and act exactly like Mean Kids in an 80s movie. Like I expected to be called "Darsh" any second and be challenged to a jet-ski battle on Mountainview Lake.

If you doubt me: read that thread. I dare you to come to any other conclusion.

I've already come to a different conclusion based on your posts.

I had heard that word used once before, in the movie Stand By Me. I'd never heard it in any trans- context, didn't know what it meant.

If you think I am "playing it off badly" (i.e. "Lying about why I said it") then why not look at the original exchange?
( http://forums.somethingawful.com/sho... )

Armani:
Because he'd (i.e. Zak would) rather Grog(derogatory SA slang for people who like old games) about bullsh*t rather than actually play a loving game

Zak:
Would it bother you if I told you about all the games I played this week and it turned out
to be a lot or would you just be like "Hey, its the internet, I make up facts and type them,
don't get mad about it." ?

Assumethisisreal:
I can vouch for this. Zak talks about games he is in on G+ (i.e. via Google plus video chat online) all the time. He plays more than anyone I know, in a variety of systems.

Mikan (i.e. Brandon Schmelz, one of the people who libels me a lot on line)
It's really impressive to play that many systems and still have bad old D&D opinions.

Zak
quotes:
"I can vouch for this. Zak talks about games he is in on G+ (i.e. via Google plus video chat online) all the time. He plays more than anyone I know, in a variety of systems."
Just because he's too much of a Grog morphodite to play in person.

Zak:
Wow, you're right guys, this IS fun.

_____

So the target of my slur was…….me.

And, hey, read around the thread--it is a bizarre thread dedicated to conflating social justice issues with fourth-edition-D&D boosterism. So no matter what I say my words are twisted into an irrational attack because, basically, I had the temerity to like old D&D more than fourth edition.

As for my alleged general transphobia, anyone claiming that would have to explain why I am constantly a booster, fan, correspondent, and friend of trans people and have someone trans in my online gaming group:
http://dndwithpornstars.blogspot.com...

So, SocialChameleon, you are in error.

But I still want to know what this "weak excuse" means to you. What I said was true, it was not a "weak excuse" it was a "true explanation". If it doesn't seem true to you, I will answer any question you have until it seems true.

You DO realize that those two descriptions of the event are not mutually exclusive right? If someone murders someone not knowing the law, their true explanation would be that they didn't know they were breaking the law... that doesn't stop it from being a weak excuse though either.

I'm pretty sure I explained this a bunch already, but one more go:

I mean your explanation why you used the word isn't a justification for using it, your explanation's sincerity or its factual correctness or whatever beef that's going on between SA and you is irrelevant.

I accept your apology.

Ok, thanks.

Is me not knowing what the word meant relevant to you, SocialChameleon? I mean: it would bother me if you thought I had used that word, even as a joke, if I knew it had a transphobic meaning.

I don't think it's whether you knew what it meant or not as much as how you react once you find out. I think the right way to respond when someone points it out is "Oh jeez, sorry." Not doubling down and making excuses.

I apologized. Twice.

Then addressed some other issues brought up by the incident.

Edit: Never mind! Already covered and accepted.

Yellek wrote:

I don't think it's whether you knew what it meant or not as much as how you react once you find out. I think the right way to respond when someone points it out is "Oh jeez, sorry." Not doubling down and making excuses.

Well that's the thing--what is the person pointing out, and how clear are they being about what they are pointing out? To riff off another post:

Demosthenes wrote:
But I still want to know what this "weak excuse" means to you. What I said was true, it was not a "weak excuse" it was a "true explanation". If it doesn't seem true to you, I will answer any question you have until it seems true.

You DO realize that those two descriptions of the event are not mutually exclusive right? If someone murders someone not knowing the law, their true explanation would be that they didn't know they were breaking the law... that doesn't stop it from being a weak excuse though either.

Or to make the analogy fit even better, it's like someone who kills someone else without intending to kill them. It's not murder, but it might be manslaughter. In this case, the explanation is enough to get you off on the charge of intentional bigotry, but not the charge of reckless(?) bigotry.

I've only skimmed the supplementary materials for this discussion, but the problem I often find is that people say things like "intent doesn't matter" and other confusing ways of putting it to someone who doesn't get the distinction already.

I'm less unhappy about people using slurs and not knowing they're slurs, yes. Now you know.

Excellent, SocialChameleon. Thank you--If there's anything you think I or my group can do to help out the cause of trans- gamers in the future using the platforms we have, don't hesitate to email me or tweet.

I know that the women in my group experience a lot of harassment on-line and Mandy's fairly active talking about that as well as about the difficulties of gaming because of her handicaps. Sometimes my blog or an article she's involved with can reach a different audience than usually concerns themselves with these issues.

Ok, well then I deeply and even more sincerely apologize, SocialChameleon.

Especially because the reason you even heard this was some cynical jerks who do have an axe to grind dug it up as the only example they could find of my alleged horribleness out of a calculated attempt to use trans- peoples' genuine anger about the prejudice they face every day to attack someone they're mad at for totally other reasons.

This is doubly sucky for everyone because it creates a Cry Wolf situation where there previously wouldn't be one.

And I am sorry I confused you--a person with genuine concerns--for one of them.

But I still want to know what this "weak excuse" means to you. What I said was true, it was not a "weak excuse" it was a "true explanation". If it doesn't seem true to you, I will answer any question you have until it seems true.

"So your excuse is that you were trying to be clever and insult someone on an internet forum using a word you had only heard once in an 80s children's movie and didn't even know what it meant?"

Yyyyyyyyyyup. Because the people on the forum talk and act exactly like Mean Kids in an 80s movie. Like I expected to be called "Darsh" any second and be challenged to a jet-ski battle on Mountainview Lake.

If you doubt me: read that thread. I dare you to come to any other conclusion.

I suggest changing the thread topic to be less about Zak and more about the D&D 5e Contributor fiasco, even if this was spawned mostly from Zak defending himself.

This thread is now about the insensitivity of the term "Oriental Adventures".

Zak, I'm happy to see you actually apologize. Clearly I haven't read everything you've ever written so if you had apologized elsewhere I've never seen it. Regardless, it was pretty clear to me SC was looking for an apology and less defensiveness and I'm glad you were willing and able to do so. I'm not making some big statement here to say a bit of humanity is destroyed in online communication, but it was definitely difficult to see past the defensive stand you were taking in this and the Tropes thread, it made you seem like an asshole. Like that's all there was to your online presence. I've heard Mandy say many good things about you and have "known" her for a good 8 years now so I feel fairly good about her opinions.

Anyway, kumbaya and all that jazz. Glad minds were able to meet at some point.

Well until SocialChameleon, I didn't know there was anyone who _wasn't_ part of the smear clique who took the thing seriously.

So I was too busy defending myself agains the charge of _actually being_ transphobic to realize that I may have inadvertently hurt some people who had no knowledge of the wider beef and just didn't like hearing that word, regardless of context.

So thanks SC for pointing that out. But I hope everybody can see where I'm coming from.

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