How to think about trans people

Hypatian wrote:

Being a trans lesbian means I get double magic powers, right?

Only when playing against straight cis females, clearly.

Qwerty is the new Quiltbag

Queer, whatever-can-we-not?, eetsa-complicated-okay, really-tired-of-this-sh*t, transgendered, you-know-what-f*ck-this. QWERTY.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

Queer, whatever-can-we-not?, eetsa-complicated-okay, really-tired-of-this-sh*t, transgendered, you-know-what-f*ck-this. QWERTY.

+infinity

I also like that they didn't even consider that bisexual people exist. Like: do bi folks get their gaming superpowers depending on who they've most recently slept with?

The whole thing is just... I can't stop laughing.

Hypatian wrote:

I also like that they didn't even consider that bisexual people exist. Like: do bi folks get their gaming superpowers depending on who they've most recently slept with?

The whole thing is just... I can't stop laughing.

Don't forget about the asexual. What happens then? Previous reincarnation taken into account?

I'm afraid that intersex people are immediately stuffed in a box, and we don't know if they're alive or dead.

On a much more sober note:

So far this year, in the month of January, I've heard of four trans women being murdered. All trans women of color. They were in Kentucky, Virginia, Texas, and California when they were killed. I'm also aware of two news reports of trans women being severely beaten in public places—a woman of color on the street in New York, and a white woman in a bakery in Spokane, WA where I grew up and where my family lives.

These are the stakes—this is the reason we need to keep pushing for things to get better.

I'm sure anybody who isn't heterosexual, cisgender, and dyadic probably counts towards the "1 gay" limit. Maybe kinks count, too? Hard to say.

Edit to add this wonderful image from the comments over at Polygon...

IMAGE(https://38.media.tumblr.com/cc48cd5d69a765908a944b0b85c8b997/tumblr_n9lmzsChl51tvd7dvo1_500.gif)

To paraphrase something I heard Neil DeGrasse Tyson say, language is the root cause of most of our societal ills. Our language forces us to label things. Male or female, gay or straight, white or black. Because our language is binary we have this need to put everyone and everything in its own box though almost nothing in the universe is purely one thing or another. We can't just let people be what and who they are. Our language constrains us and it takes immensely creative people to come up with words for concepts that did not already have words to describe them. Our inability to think outside of predefined concepts has led to a world in which people end up in conflict with others based solely on who they believe them to be based on a label.

Kehama wrote:

To paraphrase something I heard Neil DeGrasse Tyson say, language is the root cause of most of our societal ills. Our language forces us to label things. Male or female, gay or straight, white or black. Because our language is binary we have this need to put everyone and everything in its own box though almost nothing in the universe is purely one thing or another. We can't just let people be what and who they are. Our language constrains us and it takes immensely creative people to come up with words for concepts that did not already have words to describe them. Our inability to think outside of predefined concepts has led to a world in which people end up in conflict with others based solely on who they believe them to be based on a label.

Talking about particles versus waves for light and/or gravity?

Kehama wrote:

To paraphrase something I heard Neil DeGrasse Tyson say, language is the root cause of most of our societal ills. Our language forces us to label things. Male or female, gay or straight, white or black. Because our language is binary we have this need to put everyone and everything in its own box though almost nothing in the universe is purely one thing or another. We can't just let people be what and who they are. Our language constrains us and it takes immensely creative people to come up with words for concepts that did not already have words to describe them. Our inability to think outside of predefined concepts has led to a world in which people end up in conflict with others based solely on who they believe them to be based on a label.

It goes the other way, too. Our ability to generalize, and to imagine new things and give names to them and share them with others is the very heart of what makes us human.

As of right now, it takes two hands to count the number of people on these forums alone who have told me that having people talking about their experience of being trans let them finally figure out what they had been feeling but never had a name for. And the cis people who've learned enough about trans experiences that they really understand, and say the right things for the right reasons? There are too many to count.

None of that would be possible if not for the same words, the same labels, however imperfect.

A word can be a cage. A word can be a bludgeon. But a word can also make someone's cage visible, or point out the bludgeon that was already in somebody's hand.

Words can chain us, or free us. Our words can lift others up or beat them down. We must each individually choose how we're going to use them.

Wonderfully put, Hyp.

Messed up your end quote tag.

Yeah—it sounds a lot like Riot Games took them aside for a nice chat about "NO". RPS also posted a story on the retraction.

Just thought I would update this thread that after the Garena news got around the internet they came out and changed those rules so they no longer apply.

http://www.pcgamer.com/league-of-leg...

Garena has issued a statement reversing, and apologizing for, the rule limiting LGBT players in its Iron Solari tournaments. "Our initial ruling on LGBT player restrictions within the Iron Solari League has created a lot of good discussion and debate over the past 24 hours. After discussing the ruling with our partners and re-examining our approach, we have decided to remove these restrictions completely. This means that any player who self-identifies as female will be allowed to participate. We sincerely apologize for any offense we caused to the LGBT and gaming communities," it said.

"Our original intent when we put together this tournament was to promote diversity in the competitive gaming community. Hence, we are grateful to our players who have consistently provided their feedback to help us learn and improve as we strive to develop an inclusive gaming environment for all. We’ll also be keeping our promise of having an open dialogue with all parties as we plan this and future events," it continued. "We hope you will tune in to support these awesome teams and players in this upcoming tournament."

Still a crappy thing to do to start with, but at least they ended up in the right spot.

Hypatian wrote:

Messed up your end quote tag.

Yeah—it sounds a lot like Riot Games took them aside for a nice chat about "NO". RPS also posted a story on the retraction.

Fixed!

Hypatian wrote:

On a much more sober note:

So far this year, in the month of January, I've heard of four trans women being murdered. All trans women of color. They were in Kentucky, Virginia, Texas, and California when they were killed. I'm also aware of two news reports of trans women being severely beaten in public places—a woman of color on the street in New York, and a white woman in a bakery in Spokane, WA where I grew up and where my family lives.

These are the stakes—this is the reason we need to keep pushing for things to get better.

Do you have any info on the motives of these murders? The only thing I could find was that Yazmin Payne was killed by her boyfriend which would lead me to believe it didn't have anything to do with her gender identity or color.

Hypatian wrote:
Kehama wrote:

To paraphrase something I heard Neil DeGrasse Tyson say, language is the root cause of most of our societal ills. Our language forces us to label things. Male or female, gay or straight, white or black. Because our language is binary we have this need to put everyone and everything in its own box though almost nothing in the universe is purely one thing or another. We can't just let people be what and who they are. Our language constrains us and it takes immensely creative people to come up with words for concepts that did not already have words to describe them. Our inability to think outside of predefined concepts has led to a world in which people end up in conflict with others based solely on who they believe them to be based on a label.

It goes the other way, too. Our ability to generalize, and to imagine new things and give names to them and share them with others is the very heart of what makes us human.

As of right now, it takes two hands to count the number of people on these forums alone who have told me that having people talking about their experience of being trans let them finally figure out what they had been feeling but never had a name for. And the cis people who've learned enough about trans experiences that they really understand, and say the right things for the right reasons? There are too many to count.

None of that would be possible if not for the same words, the same labels, however imperfect.

A word can be a cage. A word can be a bludgeon. But a word can also make someone's cage visible, or point out the bludgeon that was already in somebody's hand.

Words can chain us, or free us. Our words can lift others up or beat them down. We must each individually choose how we're going to use them.

Words can also bludgeon open cages.

Trophy Husband wrote:
Hypatian wrote:

On a much more sober note:

So far this year, in the month of January, I've heard of four trans women being murdered. All trans women of color. They were in Kentucky, Virginia, Texas, and California when they were killed. I'm also aware of two news reports of trans women being severely beaten in public places—a woman of color on the street in New York, and a white woman in a bakery in Spokane, WA where I grew up and where my family lives.

These are the stakes—this is the reason we need to keep pushing for things to get better.

Do you have any info on the motives of these murders? The only thing I could find was that Yazmin Payne was killed by her boyfriend which would lead me to believe it didn't have anything to do with her gender identity or color.

Unless he did so because she revealed herself to be trans and he was enraged?

Hypatian wrote:
Kehama wrote:

To paraphrase something I heard Neil DeGrasse Tyson say, language is the root cause of most of our societal ills. Our language forces us to label things. Male or female, gay or straight, white or black. Because our language is binary we have this need to put everyone and everything in its own box though almost nothing in the universe is purely one thing or another. We can't just let people be what and who they are. Our language constrains us and it takes immensely creative people to come up with words for concepts that did not already have words to describe them. Our inability to think outside of predefined concepts has led to a world in which people end up in conflict with others based solely on who they believe them to be based on a label.

It goes the other way, too. Our ability to generalize, and to imagine new things and give names to them and share them with others is the very heart of what makes us human.

As of right now, it takes two hands to count the number of people on these forums alone who have told me that having people talking about their experience of being trans let them finally figure out what they had been feeling but never had a name for. And the cis people who've learned enough about trans experiences that they really understand, and say the right things for the right reasons? There are too many to count.

None of that would be possible if not for the same words, the same labels, however imperfect.

A word can be a cage. A word can be a bludgeon. But a word can also make someone's cage visible, or point out the bludgeon that was already in somebody's hand.

Words can chain us, or free us. Our words can lift others up or beat them down. We must each individually choose how we're going to use them.

English is often binary. Not all languages are.

Tagalog has a lot of gender-neutral pronouns and words for pretty much everything. We don't have to label people if we don't want to, and doing so means that you meant to label someone even when no one else was doing so and it was completely unnecessary.

When I read Tyson's words, I read "English forces us to label things," not "all language in general in every people in the world." Specifically, I read it to mean the bad aspects and structures in the English language.

What else would an English speaking American mean by "our language" and "our societal ills"?

We get it.

Trophy Husband:

It is unclear whether Lamar Edwards was trans or a man in drag. He apparently was not out as trans to anyone he knew. However, he was dressed in an everyday feminine-coded style rather than the hyper-feminine caricatured style more typical of drag performers. He was known to perform drag. We've lost the chance to find out who he would have grown into.

Yazmin Payne (the one you mention) was open about being trans. The motive there is unclear. The fact that she was burned after being killed is rather upsetting, but could have simply been the boyfriend trying to destroy evidence. (It echoes louder with horror, though, because of the memory of last June when Yaz'min Shancez was shot and then burned while still alive behind a garbage bin in an industrial area in Florida.)

Ty Underwood's roommate believes that whoever murdered Underwood was motivated by bigotry.

Lamia Beard's shooter's motive is unclear. The police believe the shooting of another (cis) person nearby may have been related.

Both the beating of Jocelyn Diaz and the beating of Jacina Scamahorn were clearly related to transphobic or homophobic bigotry (bigots often don't make a distinction).

All of these incidents had sufficient media attention to the gender presentation of the person who was victimized to come to my attention. Almost all of those victimized were also misgendered by police or news reports of the incidents.

And all of them happened during the month of January 2015.

To some degree the motivations are beside the point, however: The high rate of murder and other violence against trans women--particularly trans women of color--has as much or more to do with the economic and social vulnerability they experience as it has to do with more direct forms of bigotry.

Trans people are often disowned by family and friends, find themselves unable to get work, and experience smaller indignities on a daily basis. They are economically vulnerable. They are socially vulnerable. They have less resources and must take more risks to survive. They fear interactions with the police and even with medical personnel. Many of these same problems confront people of color, with the intersection magnifying the problem.

All of these things together (and surely other problems as well) contribute to the fact that even though trans people are a small minority of queer people in general, over half of confirmed US anti-queer homicides in 2012 were trans women, and over 73% of confirmed US anti-queer homicides were people of color.

Edit to add: There are suspects in custody for the murder of Edwards. Payne's boyfriend turned himself in to the police for her murder. There are suspects in custody for the beating of Scamahorn. (There's also a complaint about the behavior of police towards Scamahorn during that incident.) That's far far better than usual, in terms of suspects even being found in connection with such cases.

So you know that Kentucky school proposed law that would pay people for catching folks in the "wrong" restroom? Yeah...

Florida Bill Would Criminalize Transgender People Using Single-Sex Public Restrooms
(Dominic Holden, BuzzFeed, 2015-02-05)

A bill introduced Wednesday in the Florida Legislature by Representative Frank Artiles of Miami would make it a crime for transgender people to use single-sex public facilities — including restrooms in businesses that are open to the public, workplaces, and schools — that correspond with their gender identity.

Violators would be guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by up to a year in jail or a $1,000 fine.

The bill would also empower people in a single-sex restroom during any “unlawful entry” to sue the alleged interloper and owner of the facility for attorneys fees and damages.

Hypatian wrote:

Violators would be guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by up to a year in jail or a $1,000 fine.

The bill would also empower people in a single-sex restroom during any “unlawful entry” to sue the alleged interloper and owner of the facility for attorneys fees and damages.

Let's hope that doesn't even come close to passing :/ terrible.

Meanwhile, if that year in jail is in a jail aligned with their gender identity, wouldn't that be the law implying they do in fact have the right to use the bathroom of the gender they identify with?

eta: IMAGE(http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/506/772/97a.gif)

Hahahahaha. Yeah, I'm pretty sure no, it would be in inappropriate facilities, and subject the "offender" to all of the worst possibilities facing a trans person who's incarcerated.

These sorts of policies are basically "I can't go to that state, because every time I visit a restroom I'm going to be faced with either being cussed out or beaten up, or arrested and facing much much worse."

Which is just outright amazingly awful.

I know they generally try to pass these kinds of laws or rules by saying they're just trying to protect women from being attacked by men but is this something's that's really happening? Men barging into women's restrooms to attack them? Or is this just another instance of "voter ID" where the reasons for our "solutions" aren't what they're really trying to accomplish.

Kehama wrote:

I know they generally try to pass these kinds of laws or rules by saying they're just trying to protect women from being attacked by men but is this something's that's really happening?

No.

And in the very, very, very rare instance when it is, attacking a women is already illegal, regardless of whose bathroom you're in.

I would imagine the men who are going in there to attack women are not generally going to the trouble to present as female.

aside; I assume these laws would also apply to transmen ? They don't seem to be discussed in these sorts of things nearly as often, is that due to them being less frequent or a result of the general populace being less bothered by them than they are by transwomen?

krev82 wrote:

I would imagine the men who are going in there to attack women are not generally going to the trouble to present as female.

aside; I assume these laws would also apply to transmen ? They don't seem to be discussed in these sorts of things nearly as often, is that due to them being less frequent or a result of the general populace being less bothered by them than they are by transwomen?

The trans-insensitive don't care about women (as they see them) going into the men's restroom, that's like every dude's fantasy anyway! /s

lol. When a trans guy walks into the men's restroom, nobody thinks he's a woman.

Of course, according to the law, he would have to use the women's room. Now that's likely to cause some consternation.

And yeah, there's a pretty long history now of laws protecting the rights of trans people to use the restroom they feel is appropriate at both state and local levels various places around the country. (If there is a restroom they feel is appropriate, anyway--non-binary people kind of feel not so good about gendered restrooms in general.) There've been no reported cases of problems with someone claiming to be trans for prurient reasons.

(The one situation I know of with someone claiming to be trans who actually wasn't was when a boy at a public school was told by his grandfather to follow the trans girl at their school in to the girls' room if he saw her going in there, and then claim he had every right to be there. I kind of don't feel like that counts.)