How to think about trans people

nel e nel wrote:

While a tragic event for sure, I was pleased to see that NBC Nightly News was using the proper pronouns when referring to Leelah in their report on it tonight.

Apparently WCPO (our local ABC affiliate) put a piece up on their site apologizing too.

bleh that's terrible, I truly hope we get to the world needed for you to rest in piece Leelah, but I lament that it may take a while.

The words, "Fix society. Please," have given me a big case of the feels.

complexmath wrote:

The article alone seems ample evidence of what the teen was going through.

Apparently Leelah posted to r/asktransgender two months ago asking about whether or not her parent's treatment of her should be considered abusive. Not a pleasant read considering we now know where it led.

"They loved their son so much that they killed their daughter."

Interview with Emily brothers, labours first trans MP.
Possible trigger warning due to the attitude of her truly awful parents

The piece is in response to a piece by well-known trans-exclusionary feminist Sarah Ditum that was published in the New Republic. In it, she wrapped suggestions that we should stop talking about Leelah Alcorn in the idea that continuing to talk might "give people ideas" about committing suicide. Arthur Chu does a very good job of countering this argument, based on a very simple fact: trans people don't [em]need[/em] anyone to put the idea of suicide into our heads. It's there. It's something almost all of us have thought about at one time or another. It's something almost half of us will attempt at least once in our lives. (And I must say: I am one.) It's not just a thing that happens occasionally, it's epidemic.

The solution to the problem of trans suicide isn't hiding from it. It's addressing the roots of the problems that lead us to consider suicide. Problems that are not due to our brains' imbalance, but to the treatment we receive from those around us: family, friends, co-workers, random people on the street. Such change requires a visibility that Leelah Alcorn died to bring to the situation. A visibility that she gained for us by making a plea that things should change, that people should change, that we should become better.

Her death was a tragic thing. A preventable thing. In a just world, she would never have faced the rejection and mistreatment and despair that she faced in our real present world. But her suicide, and the past and inevitable future suicides of trans people, would not and will not ever be prevented by not talking about the problem.

This wound can only be disinfected by sunlight.

Cover-Ups and Concern Trolls: Actually, It's About Ethics in Suicide Journalism
Leelah Alcorn's message was sent, and heard, and things started changing. Until concern trolls like Sarah Ditum came along trying to cover it up again.
(Arthur Chu, The Daily Beast, 2015-01-03)

I love that guy. Chu may have been a villain (whatever that means) on Jeopardy! but he's been quite a good person as far as I can tell.

Demosthenes wrote:

I love that guy. Chu may have been a villain (whatever that means) on Jeopardy! but he's been quite a good person as far as I can tell.

When I was 13, I had just discovered Quake. I thought i was REALLY good at it. I played at home a lot and even beat a few people on my 2600 baud modem.

When my friends and I secretly installed quake on the school computers, I was destroyed by this 12 year old. I was furious that I had been so completely destroyed by him. See -- he used the mouse. Back when I was thirteen, I used the arrow keys to play -- I didn't learn WASD + mouse till this kid.

Arthur Chu is that kid. He's the upstart who figured out a better way to play a game that no other human had implemented. So, yeah. he's a villain. He's a villain to the idiots who are jealous they didn't think of it first.

Tumblr deleted Leelah Alcorn's entire blog.

Lots of people throwing around speculation that her parents requested that. Fortunately it looks like a lot of news outlets intend to keep her letter on their sites.

Something I found out, also, she posted on reddit about her situation.

I don't have a link, but a recent FB post from my alma mater group, the University of Michigan Men's Glee Club, included the language that "any student self-identifying as male is welcome to audition" in a week...

whatever you might feel about a Men's Glee Club or a Women's Glee Club in general...I got choked up and thought of how much you all have changed my life, and opened my worldview to a better place.

Yeh team.

Can anyone point me to a group organizing to create and pass Leelah's Law? I'd like to know this is going past the online petition stage. seems to be founded by legitimate organizations, so you could donate there. I'm not familiar with any of those orgs personally, though. You might also consider donating to TLDEF (the Transgender Legal Defense and Education Fund) or NCTE (the National Center for Transgender Equality), two organizations that I have had more direct contact with, and which I am sure will continue to push for bans against aversion therapy.

Quick question: is Leelah's Law meant to ban malpractice among therapists or does it also include criminal charges for parents? I full heartedly support the first but would find the second problematic for the same reason I don't support the new laws prosecuting young pregnant mothers for drug use.

It's limited to banning conversion therapy federally, which three states already do, and nine more in the process of doing.

This kind of therapy... it's not a minor thing, it's really straight up psychological (and sometimes more than that) child-abuse. "Punish the kid for any act that doesn't cleave to gender norms, and break their spirit" level stuff. I'd personally say that such "treatment" should be punished more than it actually is by these laws.

Regarding the details of what these laws actually say, though:

The law says therapists and counselors who practice the therapy would be engaging in unprofessional conduct and subject to discipline by state licensing boards.

The law prevents any licensed therapist, psychologist, social worker or counselor from using sexual orientation change efforts with a children younger than 18. Offenders jeopardize their licensed status by violating the law, which does not apply to clergy or anyone who is not licensed by the state.

So you can't offer these services and retain a state license as a social worker, therapist, counselor, etc.

It won't stop people from doing it, but it makes it more clear that it is the parents' choice to do this, and that it's not recommended to them by a professional, which does potentially open the door to child-abuse suits somewhere down the road. Because this sh*t is [em]vile[/em], and I'm pretty sure it's going to happen some day.

I'm with you on that. If I had my way anyone practicing that therapy or subjecting their child to it would be facing charges, and in the case of the Alcorns, at the very least negligent homicide.

Yeah, it's great that legitimate, state-licensed professionals would have an incentive to stay away, but I have a feeling the real danger is them what is licensed by God.

I agree with SoCham. This is child abuse and needs to be treated as such.

Human Rights Campaign Takes Action Against Saks Fifth Avenue Over LGBT Policies
(Chris Geidner, BuzzFeed, 2015-01-08)

HRC is suspending Saks’ largely positive score from its Corporate Equality Index, a ranking of companies’ LGBT-related policies. The move comes less than two weeks after Saks & Co. told a court that a discrimination lawsuit filed by a transgender former employee should be dismissed because “transsexuals are not a protected class under Title VII” of the historic civil rights law.

Today's example of "sh*t better be tested in court". Also, apparently "even if you work for a company with supportive policies, once the lawyers get ahold of things, good luck."

Of course, this stuff [em]has[/em] been tested in court. Repeatedly. Apparently Saks thinks they can test it to breaking, though.

Russia has listed Transexual and Transgender people among those no longer eligible for drivers licenses.

Fetishism, exhibitionism and voyeurism are also included as "mental disorders" now barring people from driving. The government says it is tightening medical controls for drivers because Russia has too many road accidents.

Because of the Road Accidents. Suuuuuuuure.

Yes, all those road accidents are because of fetishism, exhibitionism, and voyeurism and totally not because of the rampant abuse of alcohol.

This is so stupid I can't stop laughing.

OG_slinger wrote:

Yes, all those road accidents are because of fetishism, exhibitionism, and voyeurism and totally not because of the rampant abuse of alcohol.

To be fair, it's really hard to drive safely in head-to-toe skintight latex, while simultaneously flashing your bits to other motorists and perving on them as you do so.

Oh, completely deliberate. Continue to treat them worse and worse for as much as public support based upon the PR campaign against them works more and more. It's despicable.

Stupid, yes but most likely deliberate as well.

Violence and prejudice against LGBT people in Russia is significant and getting worse. Anti-gay violence is at best, ignored by the authorities, at worst encouraged.

I for one would not like to be one of those now forced to walk or take public transportation to get from A to B without the relative safety of a car.

in reference to the propoganda law introduced last year...

"Homophobes feel like they have a legal basis for their hatred now," Ivan says of the gay propaganda law. "They feel they can beat someone for being gay and they're protected."

The law - an amendment to child protection legislation - was introduced in several regions before being adopted nationwide.

Its chief sponsor in Russia's second city is Vitaly Milonov, a local deputy whose office at the palatial City Hall is filled with religious paraphernalia. Russian icons cover the walls and shelves beside a black flag bearing a skull and cross-bones. Another black banner proclaims "Orthodoxy or Death" in Greek.

Mr Milonov justifies the law with reference to Russia's traditional, Christian values. He insists that homosexuality is a sin and homosexuals an enemy within, backed by a perverted West.

OG_slinger wrote:

Yes, all those road accidents are because of fetishism, exhibitionism, and voyeurism and totally not because of the rampant abuse of alcohol.

Or those thousands of videos of people jumping in front of cars.

Isn't Russia one of the Eastern European countries were dash cams for everyone are necessary thanks to the number of accidents?

Demosthenes wrote:

Isn't Russia one of the Eastern European countries were dash cams for everyone are necessary thanks to the number of accidents corruptness of the police and judicial system?

Demosthenes wrote:

Isn't Russia one of the Eastern European countries were dash cams for everyone are necessary thanks to the number of accidents?

More for catching insurance fraud, I've heard. Like Bonus said, people pretending to be hit.

Lawmaker Wants To Pay Students $2,500 If They See A Transgender Person In The ‘Wrong’ Bathroom
(Zack Ford, ThinkProgress, 2015-01-15, h/t SocialChamelon)

Moreover, Embry wants to actually punish schools (like Atherton) that respect trans students’ identities. The bill provides that any student who encounters “a person of the opposite biological sex” in a bathroom or locker room shall have a legal cause of action if it’s because the school gave the trans student permission or didn’t explicitly prohibit the trans student from using that facility. The “aggrieved” student would be entitled to $2,500 from the offending school “for each instance” he or she encountered a trans student in a sex-divided facility in addition to monetary damages “for all psychological, emotional, and physical harm suffered” and attorney fees.

This sh*t is getting worse. Ugh.