Help Me Build My PC Catch-All

Thin_J wrote:
DanyBoy wrote:

I wouldn't have thought the difference would be that noticeable.

Night and day for me, particularly in games. Some people agree, others don't, just like with anything else.

If you're sensitive to framerate fluctuations in your games then I'd say there's decent odds you'll find a 120hz monitor a very noticeable change.

If you're one in the "as long as it stays above 30fps I'm good" crowd then it won't matter for you in the least.

Until recently, achieving 60fps was not something I worried about too much, and I was an "above 30 and I'm good" until one day I was messing with the settings in Firefall and I dropped everything to very low and dropped my resolution (glad my monitor just puts in a border instead of scaling) and when I started moving in 60fps it was like it was a completely different game. I never knew it would be like that! I so want a better card than my old Radeon 4870 now, but don't have it in the budget so it'll have to wait at least another year. At least I can drop my resolution in most games and pick up some performance that way without getting the terrible LCD scaling effects..

Heretk wrote:

Things continue to fluctuate. Earlier my idle temp (as shown by Core Temp) was around 35C and now its between 48-50C. I went to BIOS and there it stated my CPU temp was 75C. The CPU fan RPM in BIOS (which I believe is the pump) is at 1910 RPM. My sysfan 1 (radiator fan?) is at 4500 RPM. Is this RMA time?

I also just noticed that in Core Temp, my CPU frequency is bouncing between 3.4 and 3.7 GHz., Not sure if that's significant but it is a stock 3.3GHz i5 2500K.

[grumpy]Went through the RMA process with Corsair. They responded within 24 hours and have issued an RMA number. But the total turnaround time to getting a replacement is approximately 9 business days at the outside. Facing that kind of downtime, it would be less painful to just buy a cheaper air cooler and throw the H60 in the trash.[/grumpy]

Heretk wrote:
Heretk wrote:

Things continue to fluctuate. Earlier my idle temp (as shown by Core Temp) was around 35C and now its between 48-50C. I went to BIOS and there it stated my CPU temp was 75C. The CPU fan RPM in BIOS (which I believe is the pump) is at 1910 RPM. My sysfan 1 (radiator fan?) is at 4500 RPM. Is this RMA time?

I also just noticed that in Core Temp, my CPU frequency is bouncing between 3.4 and 3.7 GHz., Not sure if that's significant but it is a stock 3.3GHz i5 2500K.

[grumpy]Went through the RMA process with Corsair. They responded within 24 hours and have issued an RMA number. But the total turnaround time to getting a replacement is approximately 9 business days at the outside. Facing that kind of downtime, it would be less painful to just buy a cheaper air cooler and throw the H60 in the trash.[/grumpy]

Don't you have your stock cooler somewhere you could use in the interim?

EriktheRed wrote:
Heretk wrote:
Heretk wrote:

Things continue to fluctuate. Earlier my idle temp (as shown by Core Temp) was around 35C and now its between 48-50C. I went to BIOS and there it stated my CPU temp was 75C. The CPU fan RPM in BIOS (which I believe is the pump) is at 1910 RPM. My sysfan 1 (radiator fan?) is at 4500 RPM. Is this RMA time?

I also just noticed that in Core Temp, my CPU frequency is bouncing between 3.4 and 3.7 GHz., Not sure if that's significant but it is a stock 3.3GHz i5 2500K.

[grumpy]Went through the RMA process with Corsair. They responded within 24 hours and have issued an RMA number. But the total turnaround time to getting a replacement is approximately 9 business days at the outside. Facing that kind of downtime, it would be less painful to just buy a cheaper air cooler and throw the H60 in the trash.[/grumpy]

Don't you have your stock cooler somewhere you could use in the interim?

Good question. I thought for sure I had tossed it in the great storage closet purge of 2011. But upon further review, I did locate it. Thanks!

Heretk wrote:

Good question. I thought for sure I had tossed it in the great storage closet purge of 2011. But upon further review, I did locate it. Thanks!

IIRC, if you need to replace your CPU for some reason you need to supply not only the CPU but also the stock cooler, otherwise the warranty may not be honored.

[size=10]I could be wrong, but this is the info my dealer gave me when he handed me the stock cooler for the CPU in my NAS nearly a month after I had taken delivery of the unit.[/size]

Somewhat belatedly, I was going to say that yes, it's time to RMA that H60, but I see you already did it. The stock cooler should do you fine for now. Not very good for overclocking, but it'll handle the stock speeds beautifully.

If the stock cooler works correctly for you, would you please tell us? That'll let us know for sure that we've seen a third H60 fail.

LeapingGnome: you maybe went overboard on CPU in that build. File servers don't usually need that much grunt. You could put an i3 or even one of the Pentium G850s in there, and probably not notice any difference at all. Then you could re-use that 3570K in something more taxing.

Now, if you're planning to use that server for transcoding or something, then stick with what you bought, but for just file serving... that's kinda like buying a Ferrari to go grocery shopping.

edit: I realize I may have misunderstood what you were planning to use the machine for... if you're actually going to play games with it, then stick with what you have!

But, yes, 90C is a problem. That's the self-throttle level, and if you're hitting that, it means your cooler just isn't doing the job. You'll basically never measure it higher than 90, because the chips slow themselves down to stay at that temp.

I'm not familiar with the stock cooler on the 3570K at stock clocks, but I would expect it to stay under 75C at load. If you're going to overclock, you'll want an aftermarket cooler, but if you're gonna stay stock, the default cooler is supposed to work.

Malor wrote:

LeapingGnome: you maybe went overboard on CPU in that build. File servers don't usually need that much grunt. You could put an i3 or even one of the Pentium G850s in there, and probably not notice any difference at all. Then you could re-use that 3570K in something more taxing.

Now, if you're planning to use that server for transcoding or something, then stick with what you bought, but for just file serving... that's kinda like buying a Ferrari to go grocery shopping.

Yeah I will probably do some gaming, and Plex does transcoding on the fly so you need something decent for that, although an i3 would have been fine just for that too.

But, yes, 90C is a problem. That's the self-throttle level, and if you're hitting that, it means your cooler just isn't doing the job. You'll basically never measure it higher than 90, because the chips slow themselves down to stay at that temp.

I'm not familiar with the stock cooler on the 3570K at stock clocks, but I would expect it to stay under 75C at load. If you're going to overclock, you'll want an aftermarket cooler, but if you're gonna stay stock, the default cooler is supposed to work.

Yeah, it was the stock cooler and I wasn't too happy with it. I picked up a Coolermaster Hyper 212 Evo last night at Microcenter since that seemed like the best price/performance combo and I couldn't justify $80 for a Noctua, with it the temps stay around 65 degrees in Prime95 so I think I will stick with it. Might need to pick up a quieter fan for it though since it is kind of loud. I was poking around looking for replacement case fans anyway but didn't settle on what are the best quiet ones yet.

complexmath wrote:

I did a cold boot and this time the computer came right up. At this point I'm assuming that it was reacting to a change in configuration, as I had a bunch of old HDs wired to it last boot and pulled them after I shut down. It's still weird that it cycled maybe 5 times (definitely not just once) though. And it's not a PSU issue--mine is more than powerful enough. If this issue returns I may just RMA the motherboard, since I can't imagine it being anything else.

Looks like I'll be RMAing it. Or just returning it and getting a new one if NewEgg will let me. If I do a cold boot after it's been running a while it will start right up, but if it's left overnight it cycles 10 or so times before booting. I was ready to write this off as an annoyance until I booted last night to find USB not working, and today Win7 went into repair mode on bootup. I'd try to diagnose further, but it means leaving the computer turned off for hours to even reproduce, which is just a pain. It's not likely memory / CPU / etc anyway since the system runs perfectly once booted.

The Hyper 212's fan is its weak point, but for the price ($25ish, including a big hunk of metal), you can't expect much better. It's a sleeve bearing fan, meaning it's both loud and will fail relatively quickly, probably within three years, possibly much sooner.

A double ball-bearing fan will be good; a fluid dynamic bearing will be the best. Those are supposed to be extremely durable. I have two of the older Scythe SFF21E fans, and they're working as well now as when I bought them. I just went and looked, and my order date on those was 4/13/07, over five years ago.

You can't get those anymore, but this Cougar fan looks similar.

If I do a cold boot after it's been running a while it will start right up, but if it's left overnight it cycles 10 or so times before booting.

I think you need to pull the system apart, and see if you can duplicate the problem with the board sitting on a piece of cardboard or something. That sounds like it could either be a short against the case, or an inadequate power supply. Running it outside the case will rule out a short.

If it were a short or a power issue I wouldn't expect it to run reliably at all. But once it boots I can game with it all night without a hiccup. I'll probably pull everything and see if I can get it to post cold on the first try just for kicks, but I'm not hopeful. I wrote this off when I was building because when it happened I pressed on the secondary mainboard power plug and the next cycle it booted, so I thought the plug was just loose, and since it cold boots if turned off for only a short time I didn't see the problem again until the day after I'd finished the build. For whatever weird reason, it seems like there's some chip on the board that just doesn't work right until it's warmed up a tad. Having built a lot of PCs in my time, I've never seen behavior like this before. That's fine though, since this gives me an excuse to switch to a full ATX motherboard (I got a micro ATX by mistake). I'm going to order a new one and return my current one for a refund once the new board arrives. Gotta love the 30 day return policy.

complexmath wrote:

If it were a short or a power issue I wouldn't expect it to run reliably at all. But once it boots I can game with it all night without a hiccup. I'll probably pull everything and see if I can get it to post cold on the first try just for kicks, but I'm not hopeful. I wrote this off when I was building because when it happened I pressed on the secondary mainboard power plug and the next cycle it booted, so I thought the plug was just loose, and since it cold boots if turned off for only a short time I didn't see the problem again until the day after I'd finished the build. For whatever weird reason, it seems like there's some chip on the board that just doesn't work right until it's warmed up a tad. Having built a lot of PCs in my time, I've never seen behavior like this before. That's fine though, since this gives me an excuse to switch to a full ATX motherboard (I got a micro ATX by mistake). I'm going to order a new one and return my current one for a refund once the new board arrives. Gotta love the 30 day return policy.

Could be a bad capacitor on the board is causing power up issues.

Huh, dunno why I didn't make that connection. A bad capacitor makes a lot of sense, given the behavior. Thanks for giving a name to my pain

complexmath wrote:

Huh, dunno why I didn't make that connection. A bad capacitor makes a lot of sense, given the behavior. Thanks for giving a name to my pain :-)

Despite how he used to get introduced on the conference calls, he's not just a pretty face, apparently!

Rallick wrote:
complexmath wrote:

Huh, dunno why I didn't make that connection. A bad capacitor makes a lot of sense, given the behavior. Thanks for giving a name to my pain :-)

Despite how he used to get introduced on the conference calls, he's not just a pretty face, apparently! ;-)

Double threat!

Of course I could be wrong, but it sounds like something is messing with the power. Good luck!

complexmath wrote:

Huh, dunno why I didn't make that connection. A bad capacitor makes a lot of sense, given the behavior. Thanks for giving a name to my pain :-)

That's what appears to be causing the flickering on my monitor. Apparently it can be fixed with $6 worth of capacitors and a soldering iron, which I may attempt in the future. For now, however, wife needs a computer, so I'm off to Costco after work to pick up a new monitor.

Bonus_Eruptus wrote:
complexmath wrote:

Huh, dunno why I didn't make that connection. A bad capacitor makes a lot of sense, given the behavior. Thanks for giving a name to my pain :-)

That's what appears to be causing the flickering on my monitor. Apparently it can be fixed with $6 worth of capacitors and a soldering iron, which I may attempt in the future. For now, however, wife needs a computer, so I'm off to Costco after work to pick up a new monitor.

Good luck with that and make sure you have the proper tools! An extra set of hands with tweezers can also be very helpful to get the old capacitors out. And be very careful, capacitors can be very dangerous if not drained of power.

Gaald wrote:
Bonus_Eruptus wrote:
complexmath wrote:

Huh, dunno why I didn't make that connection. A bad capacitor makes a lot of sense, given the behavior. Thanks for giving a name to my pain :-)

That's what appears to be causing the flickering on my monitor. Apparently it can be fixed with $6 worth of capacitors and a soldering iron, which I may attempt in the future. For now, however, wife needs a computer, so I'm off to Costco after work to pick up a new monitor.

Good luck with that and make sure you have the proper tools! An extra set of hands with tweezers can also be very helpful to get the old capacitors out. And be very careful, capacitors can be very dangerous if not drained of power.

Look, am I going to get superpowers if I touch a charged capacitor or not?

Bonus_Eruptus wrote:
Gaald wrote:
Bonus_Eruptus wrote:
complexmath wrote:

Huh, dunno why I didn't make that connection. A bad capacitor makes a lot of sense, given the behavior. Thanks for giving a name to my pain :-)

That's what appears to be causing the flickering on my monitor. Apparently it can be fixed with $6 worth of capacitors and a soldering iron, which I may attempt in the future. For now, however, wife needs a computer, so I'm off to Costco after work to pick up a new monitor.

Good luck with that and make sure you have the proper tools! An extra set of hands with tweezers can also be very helpful to get the old capacitors out. And be very careful, capacitors can be very dangerous if not drained of power.

Look, am I going to get superpowers if I touch a charged capacitor or not?

If you want your superpower to be "temporary numbness of extremities", sure.

McIrishJihad wrote:
Bonus_Eruptus wrote:
Gaald wrote:
Bonus_Eruptus wrote:
complexmath wrote:

Huh, dunno why I didn't make that connection. A bad capacitor makes a lot of sense, given the behavior. Thanks for giving a name to my pain :-)

That's what appears to be causing the flickering on my monitor. Apparently it can be fixed with $6 worth of capacitors and a soldering iron, which I may attempt in the future. For now, however, wife needs a computer, so I'm off to Costco after work to pick up a new monitor.

Good luck with that and make sure you have the proper tools! An extra set of hands with tweezers can also be very helpful to get the old capacitors out. And be very careful, capacitors can be very dangerous if not drained of power.

Look, am I going to get superpowers if I touch a charged capacitor or not?

If you want your superpower to be "temporary numbness of extremities", sure.

Impervious to pain? I'll take it!

Hey gang, my neighbor (who i do IT work for on the side) has decided that enough is enough and she's finally going to replace her 10 year old Gateway. She has no idea how much to spend or even what a good system is. I'm going to start digging around for good deals but do you guys have any favorites, all she needs is a base line system for general internet and e-mail shennagians, plus Quick Books usage. I'm thinking a $300 (cheap) $500 (solid) and $800 (future proofing'ish) comparison to her will allow her to pick one of them and be happy for quite a few years.

Bonus_Eruptus wrote:
McIrishJihad wrote:
Bonus_Eruptus wrote:
Gaald wrote:
Bonus_Eruptus wrote:
complexmath wrote:

Huh, dunno why I didn't make that connection. A bad capacitor makes a lot of sense, given the behavior. Thanks for giving a name to my pain :-)

That's what appears to be causing the flickering on my monitor. Apparently it can be fixed with $6 worth of capacitors and a soldering iron, which I may attempt in the future. For now, however, wife needs a computer, so I'm off to Costco after work to pick up a new monitor.

Good luck with that and make sure you have the proper tools! An extra set of hands with tweezers can also be very helpful to get the old capacitors out. And be very careful, capacitors can be very dangerous if not drained of power.

Look, am I going to get superpowers if I touch a charged capacitor or not?

If you want your superpower to be "temporary numbness of extremities", sure.

Impervious to pain? I'll take it!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leprosy

Cayne wrote:

Hey gang, my neighbor (who i do IT work for on the side) has decided that enough is enough and she's finally going to replace her 10 year old Gateway. She has no idea how much to spend or even what a good system is. I'm going to start digging around for good deals but do you guys have any favorites, all she needs is a base line system for general internet and e-mail shennagians, plus Quick Books usage. I'm thinking a $300 (cheap) $500 (solid) and $800 (future proofing'ish) comparison to her will allow her to pick one of them and be happy for quite a few years.

If it's 10 years old, she might want a new monitor. In that case, what about just going with an all in 1 type PC? That's just a thought. It might be easier for someone who doesn't want to mess with things. It's also possible that Windows 8 might be great for that situation. Looks like $500 is about where you get the decent entry level ones and there are lots of decent ones in between $500 and $800. Dell makes some, too, that might be worth looking at starting at $500.

Good points, i should have mentioned i did upgrade her monitor about 2 years ago to a decent LCD 17 inch monitor. Dell is my first choice for her just from a personal preference but so far haven't spotted any great deals.

Cayne wrote:

Good points, i should have mentioned i did upgrade her monitor about 2 years ago to a decent LCD 17 inch monitor. Dell is my first choice for her just from a personal preference but so far haven't spotted any great deals.

Yeah, I noticed some simple Dell towers starting at $300, so you should definitely be able to get something okay. I'll keep an eye out for deals in the $300 to $800 price range.

McIrishJihad wrote:

If you want your superpower to be "temporary numbness of extremities", sure.

When you're dealing with monitors, that can be 'permanent loss of smaller extremities', in all seriousness, at least with CRTs. I doubt LCDs are that dangerous, but CRTs can literally blow holes in your hands. Or just kill you.

I'd jump quick, while you can still get Windows 7.

Malor wrote:
McIrishJihad wrote:

If you want your superpower to be "temporary numbness of extremities", sure.

When you're dealing with monitors, that can be 'permanent loss of smaller extremities', in all seriousness, at least with CRTs. I doubt LCDs are that dangerous, but CRTs can literally blow holes in your hands. Or just kill you.

The guy who was my mentor in terms of computer repair when I was in my teens once demonstrated this to me. He had an old, broken CRT lying around, and took the cover off. He took a screwdriver with an insulated handle and said 'Watch this, and don't EVER do it'. He shorted one of the capacitors with the blade of the screwdriver. A bang, a flash, and lots of smoke later he showed me the effect: a partially-melted screwdriver blade. Since then I've been extremely careful around both open CRT monitors / TVs and power supplies. I like my hands. They do all kinds of useful things. I also like having a beating heart and the ability to breathe. Any or all of those things can go away with a little carelessness.

The 256gig SSD install went smoothly. That fresh OS install feel

BNice wrote:

The 256gig SSD install went smoothly. That fresh OS install feel :drool:

It's almost as nice as new car smell. Ahhh, can you smell that fresh OS?