The Drug War Refugee Crisis

For folks who are not familiar with the 1939 "Voyage of the Damned", here is an excerpt from the wiki entry:

"Of the 620 St. Louis passengers who returned to continental Europe, we determined that eighty-seven were able to emigrate before Germany invaded western Europe on May 10, 1940. Two hundred fifty-four passengers in Belgium, France, and the Netherlands after that date died during the Holocaust. Most of these people were murdered in the killing centers of Auschwitz and Sobibór; the rest died in internment camps, in hiding or attempting to evade the Nazis. Three hundred sixty-five of the 620 passengers who returned to continental Europe survived the war."

Considering our participation in creating the humanitarian disasters in El Salvador, Honduras, and Guatemala, turning these kids away is in some ways MUCH WORSE than our turning the Jews away to die in concentration camps in the 40's.

OG_slinger wrote:

and by amending the 2008 anti-trafficking law by removing the requirement that unaccompanied minors get an asylum hearing so they can be deported more quickly.

Which, as I understand it, was put in place to combat sex trafficking. Make of that what you will.

SpacePPoliceman wrote:
OG_slinger wrote:

and by amending the 2008 anti-trafficking law by removing the requirement that unaccompanied minors get an asylum hearing so they can be deported more quickly.

Which, as I understand it, was put in place to combat sex trafficking. Make of that what you will.

The law simply grants an asylum hearing. Children can be granted asylum for reasons other than being a victim of sex trafficking.

The push to overturn that bit of the law seems especially galling considering the humanitarian crisis behind the flood of children. It's basically saying "we know these kids would be granted asylum if they got hearings, so we can't allow that to happen because of it would contradict the political position we've taken and make us look like the heartless bastards we truly are."

Rick Perry's bid to make himself relevant again is rumored to be taking a new turn soon.

Details of a leaked memo state that Perry wants to mobilize 1,000 Texas National Guardsmen and put them on the border. The deployment will cost the taxpayers of Texas upwards of $5 million a week, which Perry has vowed to pay from "noncritical" areas of the budget, including (I sh*t you not) healthcare and transportation.

OG_slinger wrote:

Rick Perry's bid to make himself relevant again is rumored to be taking a new turn soon.

Details of a leaked memo state that Perry wants to mobilize 1,000 Texas National Guardsmen and put them on the border. The deployment will cost the taxpayers of Texas upwards of $5 million a week, which Perry has vowed to pay from "noncritical" areas of the budget, including (I sh*t you not) healthcare and transportation.

Does he even have the authority to mobilize the national guard?

Either way, nothing like routing soldiers to try to stop children. I guess I should be counting the days until we have some kind of horrific death of children.

Demosthenes wrote:

Does he even have the authority to mobilize the national guard?

As governor, I believe he's the only official with that authority. I seem to remember when he was running around saying Obama should send the National Guard to the border that legal commentators pointed out that was Perry's job.

That said, I'm not sure what the guard is going to be expected to do. I've got to imagine they would be deployed far enough away from the border to avoid any international incidents, so it's not like they can stop anyone from crossing it. On the other hand, if Texas guard units are anything like the Marine Reserve units I served with in San Diego then I'd expect that most will have a significant number of Spanish speakers. That could be of some help.

Al wrote:
Demosthenes wrote:

Does he even have the authority to mobilize the national guard?

As governor, I believe he's the only official with that authority. I seem to remember when he was running around saying Obama should send the National Guard to the border that legal commentators pointed out that was Perry's job.

That said, I'm not sure what the guard is going to be expected to do. I've got to imagine they would be deployed far enough away from the border to avoid any international incidents, so it's not like they can stop anyone from crossing it. On the other hand, if Texas guard units are anything like the Marine Reserve units I served with in San Diego then I'd expect that most will have a significant number of Spanish speakers. That could be of some help.

I just can't help but think that if they do place them anywhere near the border, it will inevitably lead to a scuffle between a refugee and one of the guardsmen who thinks he's protecting 'murica from the Mexicans invading which will end with a dead child/teenager.

Don't we normally encourage other nations to do everything they can to help refugees of war torn countries and assure them the UN and Red Cross will offer as much assistance as they can? Why do we get to put up a giant wall with a "keep out" sign when refugees show up?

Kehama wrote:

Don't we normally encourage other nations to do everything they can to help refugees of war torn countries and assure them the UN and Red Cross will offer as much assistance as they can? Why do we get to put up a giant wall with a "keep out" sign when refugees show up?

Because the people clamoring for it never watched that episode of Futurama where Nixon put that fence around the southern half of the solar system?

SpacePPoliceman wrote:
OG_slinger wrote:

and by amending the 2008 anti-trafficking law by removing the requirement that unaccompanied minors get an asylum hearing so they can be deported more quickly.

Which, as I understand it, was put in place to combat sex trafficking. Make of that what you will.

That it's the duty of every good Christian to take one (or more!) of these cinnamon angels into our home as "wards"?

Kehama wrote:

Don't we normally encourage other nations to do everything they can to help refugees of war torn countries and assure them the UN and Red Cross will offer as much assistance as they can? Why do we get to put up a giant wall with a "keep out" sign when refugees show up?

Because we would have to recognize the role we played in causing those wars if we acknowledge them as refugees? Right now they are just a bunch of Mexicans trying to cross illegally.

Al wrote:

That said, I'm not sure what the guard is going to be expected to do.

They are expected to help Rick Perry get votes.

NathanialG wrote:
Kehama wrote:

Don't we normally encourage other nations to do everything they can to help refugees of war torn countries and assure them the UN and Red Cross will offer as much assistance as they can? Why do we get to put up a giant wall with a "keep out" sign when refugees show up?

Because we would have to recognize the role we played in causing those wars if we acknowledge them as refugees? Right now they are just a bunch of Mexicans trying to cross illegally.

:shakes head:

NathanialG wrote:
Kehama wrote:

Don't we normally encourage other nations to do everything they can to help refugees of war torn countries and assure them the UN and Red Cross will offer as much assistance as they can? Why do we get to put up a giant wall with a "keep out" sign when refugees show up?

Because we would have to recognize the role we played in causing those wars if we acknowledge them as refugees? Right now they are just a bunch of Mexicans, Hondurans, Salvadorans, and Guatemalans trying to cross illegally.

Fixed that for ya.

Farscry wrote:
NathanialG wrote:
Kehama wrote:

Don't we normally encourage other nations to do everything they can to help refugees of war torn countries and assure them the UN and Red Cross will offer as much assistance as they can? Why do we get to put up a giant wall with a "keep out" sign when refugees show up?

Because we would have to recognize the role we played in causing those wars if we acknowledge them as refugees? Right now they are just a bunch of Mexicans, Hondurans, Salvadorans, and Guatemalans trying to cross illegally.

Fixed that for ya.

I am aware that they are a multinational group I was trying to comment on the way they are being portrayed. And failing, apparently

NathanialG wrote:
Farscry wrote:
NathanialG wrote:
Kehama wrote:

Don't we normally encourage other nations to do everything they can to help refugees of war torn countries and assure them the UN and Red Cross will offer as much assistance as they can? Why do we get to put up a giant wall with a "keep out" sign when refugees show up?

Because we would have to recognize the role we played in causing those wars if we acknowledge them as refugees? Right now they are just a bunch of Mexicans, Hondurans, Salvadorans, and Guatemalans trying to cross illegally.

Fixed that for ya.

I am aware that they are a multinational group I was trying to comment on the way they are being portrayed. And failing, apparently :)

I got your meaning. For what it's worth.

DSGamer wrote:
NathanialG wrote:
Farscry wrote:
NathanialG wrote:
Kehama wrote:

Don't we normally encourage other nations to do everything they can to help refugees of war torn countries and assure them the UN and Red Cross will offer as much assistance as they can? Why do we get to put up a giant wall with a "keep out" sign when refugees show up?

Because we would have to recognize the role we played in causing those wars if we acknowledge them as refugees? Right now they are just a bunch of Mexicans, Hondurans, Salvadorans, and Guatemalans trying to cross illegally.

Fixed that for ya.

I am aware that they are a multinational group I was trying to comment on the way they are being portrayed. And failing, apparently :)

I got your meaning. For what it's worth.

Likewise: when some talk about immigration, "Mexico" is the area that begins at the Rio Grande and ends at Cape Horn.

NathanialG wrote:
Farscry wrote:
NathanialG wrote:
Kehama wrote:

Don't we normally encourage other nations to do everything they can to help refugees of war torn countries and assure them the UN and Red Cross will offer as much assistance as they can? Why do we get to put up a giant wall with a "keep out" sign when refugees show up?

Because we would have to recognize the role we played in causing those wars if we acknowledge them as refugees? Right now they are just a bunch of Mexicans, Hondurans, Salvadorans, and Guatemalans trying to cross illegally.

Fixed that for ya.

I am aware that they are a multinational group I was trying to comment on the way they are being portrayed. And failing, apparently :)

D'OH!

Curse my eternally broken sarcasmometer!

This is bothering the hell out of me so I found a place to volunteer.

SpacePPoliceman wrote:

Likewise: when some talk about immigration, "Mexico" is the area that begins at the Rio Grande and ends at Cape Horn.

As an aside, a former co-worker of my wife's used to get furious at people that referred to her as Mexican. She was from Panama and argued that Mexicans didn't even speak "real Spanish" and that no self-respecting Panamanian would dare be compared to a Mexican. As you stated, "Mexican" seem to be the widespread American term for anyone from areas south of Texas. Heck, 20 years ago a couple of exchange students I went to school with from Brazil kept getting called Mexican and people would try to talk to them in Spanish. They spoke Portugese for crying out loud but that didn't seem to slow down complete strangers from assuming they were Mexican.

How the US’s Foreign Policy Created an Immigrant Refugee Crisis on Its Own Southern Border [The Nation]

President Obama is showing little concern for international law, and none at all for Washington’s historic responsibility in Central America.

In the end, though, Ramirez did break down in tears, when she recounted her last few days in Border Patrol custody. Someone among the authorities—she was not specific about who—told her and the other women and children who were also sleeping on the detention center floor that they were “parasites” who were coming to the United States to live off people here. “That’s not true,” she said, crying slightly. “It hurt to hear that. I will do any kind of work. But where we come from there is no work at all. It’s not even safe to leave the house.”

A reporter on NPR was recounting his witnessing of xenophobic assholes protesting a bus of children coming in and one white protester had a sign reading "Not our children, not our problem". I was so angry listening to that I don't even want to write down how I reacted and felt.

This is, to me, the most heartbreaking news happening right now. And that's saying something. We have the means to do something positive and we're not. You can't say the same about the other hot spots in the world.

Edwin wrote:

President Obama is showing little concern for international law, and none at all for Washington’s historic responsibility in Central America.

Yet he's regularly criticized for not being tough on immigration and letting just anyone stroll in and take up residency. I guess they wants us to completely militarize our borders just start shooting anyone who approaches them.

Kehama wrote:
Edwin wrote:

President Obama is showing little concern for international law, and none at all for Washington’s historic responsibility in Central America.

Yet he's regularly criticized for not being tough on immigration and letting just anyone stroll in and take up residency. I guess they wants us to completely militarize our borders just start shooting anyone who approaches them.

Not just that, but he's criticized for actively encouraging all of these kids to come to America. To become voters, of course, and swing election for Democrats. 8 year old, Mexican (actually Guatemalan, Honduran, etc., but for the sake of Tea Party argument) child voters somehow voting as children.

Well when you consider the rampant voter fraud, of course 8 year old refugee children can vote for Democrats! (that was sarcasm)

Kehama wrote:

Well when you consider the rampant voter fraud, of course 8 year old refugee children can vote for Democrats! (that was sarcasm)

The fact that you have to say that is ridiculously sad. If you had told me 6 years ago that that kind of thing would be something Americans believe I would have said, "Americans are dumb, but give us a *little* credit".

DSGamer wrote:
Kehama wrote:

Well when you consider the rampant voter fraud, of course 8 year old refugee children can vote for Democrats! (that was sarcasm)

The fact that you have to say that is ridiculously sad. If you had told me 6 years ago that that kind of thing would be something Americans believe I would have said, "Americans are dumb, but give us a *little* credit".

Agreed.

There was an utterly surreal moment on All Things Considered a few weeks back wherein whoever they were interviewing had to explain that coyotes lie to the people they are transporting over the border about their legal options in the States, in response to questions about Obama's responsibility in the misconceptions the people trying to get over the border hold. Like I said, utterly surreal to hear someone needing to give that answer--these shady dudes who make a living loading people into shady vans and smuggling them not necessarily safely might not have a high standard of operation ethics, and may not be upfront about the intricacies of American legal code? The Hell you say!