HBO's Game of Thrones—Shame. Shame. Shame.—NO SPOILERS

Baron Of Hell wrote:

Are you guys thinking of one day reading the books and don't want the book spoiled?

This.

Mentioning what happens in the books that doesn't happen in the TV show spoils the books. I don't mind too much because the spoilers have been very minor so far, things I probably won't remember by the time I get around to reading the books. But there is a whole other thread where book spoilers are allowed. I've been avoiding that thread for fear of more major spoilers, and that is the more active thread too. So I'd appreciate it if you guys didn't drive away the few people here who watch the show but haven't read the books.

I can also see an argument that even minor comments about the differences between the books and the television show is often a spoiler towards the larger picture. For example, if you were to say how some action a character makes is integral to their development in the book but wasn't in the movie, you're implicitly stating that character won't die within a couple of episodes. Similarly, if you talk about how much a character fits your vision and you can't wait to see them in future events, no matter how vague you might be when talking about the future events, you're also telling everyone who hasn't read the books that they're going to be a major character, even if they're a minor character right now. And given that there are two threads on this show right now, it doesn't seem too burdensome to keep all the comparative talk to the spoiler thread.

Then the thread title needs to be changed. It gives the impression that anything (book or show) is fair game up to the point of whats been aired.

bnpederson wrote:

I can also see an argument that even minor comments about the differences between the books and the television show is often a spoiler towards the larger picture. For example, if you were to say how some action a character makes is integral to their development in the book but wasn't in the movie, you're implicitly stating that character won't die within a couple of episodes. Similarly, if you talk about how much a character fits your vision and you can't wait to see them in future events, no matter how vague you might be when talking about the future events, you're also telling everyone who hasn't read the books that they're going to be a major character, even if they're a minor character right now. And given that there are two threads on this show right now, it doesn't seem too burdensome to keep all the comparative talk to the spoiler thread.

Pretty much this is what I'm talking about. Dany may become a very complex and interesting character. I don't want that spoiled for me, though, because what I know of her right now is that she's still a minor player with growing power. As this series seems to be a lot about the growth of people I don't want to hear that someone will turn out okay. That basically foreshadows their story arc for me.

To the person who said I'm whining I'm not. I'm asking seriously if I should start my own thread where nothing about the show is spoiled, period. I'm watching the show constantly guessing at the story arc that characters will follow and every week someone is referring to the books and either confirming what I was thinking to myself or otherwise spoiling the tension that's inherent just to the show. Some examples.

Thin_J wrote:
4xis.black wrote:

While I've found I only really like one of the characters (Tyrion), there are quite a few whom I hope receive elaborate and painful deaths.

Keep watching. The odds are with you.

I assume there will be some death in this show. Bran falling from the window and not dying was a surprise, though, so I'm not certain how frequent death will be. This comment informs me that I should expect major characters to be killed with impunity.

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Sinatar wrote:
BadKen wrote:

I demand an episode dedicated to Rickon.

With only 10 episodes in the season you want to waste one on the most useless character in the entire series?

Rickon is one of the most useless characters of the entire series? So I should stop worrying that anything that happens to him matters? I take this to mean he won't die for most of the series, but he won't play an integral role either. I wasn't aware of that from the 3 episodes I watched.

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Sinatar wrote:

I think the most disappointing thing about the Dany arc so far is one seemingly small change they made to the scene in episode 3 where her brother throws a tantrum at her over being ordered to wait.

In the show, a dothraki bloodrider tells him to walk but in the books it was Dany herself. It's a pretty pivotal moment for her and for some reason they decided to lose that in the show.

If you tell me the show does a bad job developing a character in a certain direction you've basically told me that this specific character is going to be important and not to be surprised when she becomes important. She is a blank slate to me right now. I think I know things about her and how she might get stronger as the series goes on. Even if the show is doing a poor job of it I'd like to figure that out on my own.

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zeroKFE wrote:

You made a post starting a discussion about the merits of watching the show without reading the books, so I spent an excessive amount of time carefully choosing my example and my phrasing within that example so I could share my perspective on the subject while not making mention of anything that hasn't fully transpired in the show. However, if you would prefer to not have any interaction with anyone who has read the book, so be it; I'll edit my post and not waste my time the next time I see a discussion I could potentially add something to within the context of what has aired.

To be clear, I didn't start this thread. BadKen did. And it appears his intent may have been different than mine. I don't want to hear about book foreshadowing personally so I may have to duck out or start a new thread. I'm seriously not whining. I'm just trying to understand the ground rules of this thread as I personally don't want anything spoiled for me at this point.

Newsflash: If you don't want the books spoiled then you probably shouldn't be watching the frickin show anyway. So far the show has blasted through every important plot point at what Mel Brooks might call ludicrous speed. Seriously, they've gone plaid. The books are going to be pretty hollow if you watch the show first. There will be small differences like the one thing that's been mentioned so far with Dany and the way Ned kills Lady, but generally it's been the same.

As far as the other stuff... There's been one real spoiler regarding a currently almost completely irrelevant character.

Everyone else has stayed within the bounds given by the OP and thread title. Don't see what the problem is.

In other news, the show's ratings have bucked the trend of the usual HBO shows and has actually risen since the premiere. Typically, thanks to the free weekend they offer, the first episodes are always really high and then as the season progresses the viewership goes down. I wonder how much higher it might have been if a certain international terrorist's demise hadn't been dominating the news at the time of it's airing.

Thin_J wrote:

Newsflash: If you don't want the books spoiled then you probably shouldn't be watching the frickin show anyway. So far the show has blasted through every important plot point at what Mel Brooks might call ludicrous speed. Seriously, they've gone plaid. The books are going to be pretty hollow if you watch the show first. There will be small differences like the one thing that's been mentioned so far with Dany and the way Ned kills Lady, but generally it's been the same.

As far as the other stuff... There's been one real spoiler regarding a currently almost completely irrelevant character.

Everyone else has stayed within the bounds given by the OP and thread title. Don't see what the problem is.

The problem is that I don't think only one thing has been spoiled. I think numerous things have been spoiled and I'm simply trying to get a sense of whether that will continue. It appears it will.

DSGamer wrote:
Thin_J wrote:

Newsflash: If you don't want the books spoiled then you probably shouldn't be watching the frickin show anyway. So far the show has blasted through every important plot point at what Mel Brooks might call ludicrous speed. Seriously, they've gone plaid. The books are going to be pretty hollow if you watch the show first. There will be small differences like the one thing that's been mentioned so far with Dany and the way Ned kills Lady, but generally it's been the same.

As far as the other stuff... There's been one real spoiler regarding a currently almost completely irrelevant character.

Everyone else has stayed within the bounds given by the OP and thread title. Don't see what the problem is.

The problem is that I don't think only one thing has been spoiled. I think numerous things have been spoiled and I'm simply trying to get a sense of whether that will continue. It appears it will.

I see DSGamer's point and agree. I mean, we already have two threads. This one where we could talk about what we've seen, period, and this one where the sky is the limit. What's the problem with that?

Everything you mentioned not related to Rickon is supposition on your part based on statements that other people kept intentionally vague specifically for the purpose of avoiding spoilers.

I really don't understand why my perspective is so controversial. I don't get it. I just want to talk about the TV show on its own merits. Period. That's what I personally want. If this isn't a place where that can happen that's fine. I won't begrudge anyone or take offense. I just want to know what the rules are so I don't have anything spoiled for me by outside information. I think that's pretty simple, isn't it?

Counter Newsflash: There's already a thread where you needn't worry if something's a spoiler or not.

EDIT: Sorry, too confrontational.

DSGamer wrote:

I just want to talk about the TV show on its own merits. Period. That's what I personally want. If this isn't a place where that can happen that's fine. I won't begrudge anyone or take offense. I just want to know what the rules are so I don't have stuff spoiled for me. I think that's pretty simple, isn't it?

EDIT:

My original tone was unduly confrontational -- let me try again.

DSGamer, you are right -- no one should be spoiling anything in this thread.

Personally, I thought I took great pains to keep my post within the confines of what has been aired, and got bent out of shape because I was only trying to interact with what I thought was an interesting point that you made, but instead of getting any interaction back I got "don't spoil it for me" when I spent a lot of time trying to make sure I wasn't.

Interacting with people who know are familiar with something you are trying to experience fresh is dangerous, as is trying to be on the other side of that kind of conversation. Those of us who have read the books don't want to spoil the experience for you (well, I don't at least), but we do want to participate in your conversation. However, if that conversation is to happen at all you need to be careful what you comment on and ask about, since it may induce us to say something you don't want to hear. Conversely, those who have read the book ought to take extreme care to be sure that they don't say things that might tip the hat about something that wasn't shown on screen.

I.e., I can't give meaningful feedback on a discussion of the value of watching the show without reading the book without an example of where I see the show falling a bit short of the book. I chose my example and my words in that example with extreme care to be sure they didn't reference what you haven't seen, but for you it was still too much out of context information.

SpacePPoliceman wrote:

Counter Newsflash: There's already a thread where you needn't worry if something's a spoiler or not.

This just in: Spoiler thread covers 3.75 more story than current show. Note to people watching the show and reading this thread, the story is not complete after this episode, this season, or even the most current book.

zeroKFE wrote:

I.e., I can't give meaningful feedback on a discussion of the value of watching the show without reading the book without an example of where I see the show falling a bit short of the book. I chose my example and my words in that example with extreme care to be sure they didn't reference what you haven't seen, but for you that wasn't vague enough.

Zero, I appreciate you pulling back a bit and trying to see my perspective. And to be clear, I know exactly what you're talking about here. I'm certain I've done exactly what I'm complaining about earlier. I'm sure I've gone into a spoiler-free thread about a game and said "just wait for X, it's so cool". It has to be terribly difficult to try and separate what you know from one media from what you know from the other media. It would be like trying to discuss something while leaving out entire parts of your memory of a character. I totally get it. And that's why I've sincerely been asking if there is a need for a third thread that simply covers the TV show and nothing else. I understand that it puts those of you who have read the book in a bit of a bind. And I know this has come up before around stuff like "The Watchmen" and other things like that. I know I've been on your side of things probably more often than not.

So please understand that I get where you're coming from. I'm just trying in the case of this particular TV show, to go in with as little knowledge as possible. Thus I'm honestly trying to see if this is a thread I can safely check regularly. If not then I honestly won't take offense. If other people would prefer to here some of the nuance the TV show is leaving out then this is a democracy and I'll move along or start a new thread. Not being sarcastic or trying to lay down guilt. I absolutely see your perspective on this and appreciate it.

Making a third thread seems a bit excessive. There are definitely some posts here that have been poorly considered and have given too much away, and that should really stop. That said, please be aware that if you bring up a topic that is outside the bounds of the TV show (ie, the value of watching it without having read the book), others are going to respond outside of the bounds of the TV show. (But one would hope that they will take great care to consider the information you have been presented and frame their post within that, as I attempted to.)

zeroKFE wrote:

Making a third thread seems a bit excessive. There are definitely some posts here that have been poorly considered and have given too much away, and that should really stop. That said, please be aware that if you bring up a topic that is outside the bounds of the TV show (ie, the value of watching it without having read the book), others are going to respond outside of the bounds of the TV show. (But one would hope that they will take great care to consider the information you have been presented and frame their post within that, as I attempted to.)

THE HOUND AND JOFFREY MAKE SWEET LOVE ON DANY'S DRAGON EGGS!

Oopsie.

ColdForged wrote:

THE HOUND AND JOFFREY MAKE SWEET LOVE ON DANY'S DRAGON EGGS!

Oopsie.

In book 2, Tyrion gives Gregor Clegane a piggy-back ride.

It's epic.

Look, we all know Joffrey kills Dumbledore.

Thin_J wrote:
ColdForged wrote:

THE HOUND AND JOFFREY MAKE SWEET LOVE ON DANY'S DRAGON EGGS!

Oopsie.

In book 2, Tyrion gives Gregor Clegane a piggy-back ride.

It's epic.

LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA - Not listening.

Although things involving Joffrey are tempting spoilers to listen to. I really really dislike that character.

zeroKFE wrote:

Making a third thread seems a bit excessive. There are definitely some posts here that have been poorly considered and have given too much away, and that should really stop. That said, please be aware that if you bring up a topic that is outside the bounds of the TV show (ie, the value of watching it without having read the book), others are going to respond outside of the bounds of the TV show. (But one would hope that they will take great care to consider the information you have been presented and frame their post within that, as I attempted to.)

I think you have and, once again, I appreciate you walking back from the frustration and taking my concern seriously. That's as rare on an Internet message board as a unicorn. So thanks. I full well know that if I ask a question about a character and ask for speculation on their backstory that I'm inviting possibly unintentional spoilers. I just want to talk about the show with friends in a safe place. I'm glad that in spite of some frustration there we seem to have worked this out (I think).

A good sign for me is that my wife is so excited about this show that we're keeping HBO and cable for now. We haven't had cable for 5 years, minus when we get it every year for 3 months during the NBA playoffs. Not that I care to have cable, but it's kind of fun to be current on an HBO show for once. I only saw "The Wire" years after the run had finished. So it's fun to talk about a show that seems like it could go years in real time. The end of episode 3 with the youngest daughter learning how to fight was especially cool to me. I have an idea of the direction her life could take and I'm excited to see how it turns out.

My view on this whole controversy is that we really need 3 threads if people are this concerned about it. I can't go into the current super spoiler thread because I've only read the first book. However, I would like to discuss how the show departs from the books. That's what I thought this thread was according to the title. So either this thread needs to make that specific or a new thread should be started.

I really don't understand why anyone would watch the show before reading the book and be so concerned about spoiling the book up to the point where the show is airing. That just doesn't make any sense to me.

Anyways, unless it's made specific, I won't be discussing anything about the books in this thread.

tuffalobuffalo wrote:

I really don't understand why anyone would watch the show before reading the book and be so concerned about spoiling the book up to the point where the show is airing. That just doesn't make any sense to me.

Anyways, unless it's made specific, I won't be discussing anything about the books in this thread.

To be clear, for me personally I'm not watching the show with any intent to read the books. Generally when I watch a TV show or movie based on a book there's a good chance I won't get around to the book. I might, but the chances aren't great. So that's not my concern, personally. I just don't want the show spoiled.

Wait... but "the book did X and the show didn't" isn't actually a spoiler for the show. Is it? (Maybe that's the confusion? I'm certainly confused.)

Hypatian wrote:

Wait... but "the book did X and the show didn't" isn't actually a spoiler for the show. Is it? (Maybe that's the confusion? I'm certainly confused.)

It is if you phrase it in terms of "In that scene they did, they skipped over all this awesome foreshadowing/important character development/bit of info that will be important later"

Even without stating why the things that were cut are important, you can be heavily implying a lot of things, like which characters will be involved in important events, characters who are in danger will turn out fine, or vice versa, or that seemingly small clues or elements are a really big deal down the road, etc.

Hmm. True. I'd argue, then, that people should be more careful not to talk about future impacts of things. Ahh, well. Lesson: Not spoiling something that isn't actually completely new is hard.

DSGamer wrote:

I really don't understand why my perspective is so controversial. I don't get it. I just want to talk about the TV show on its own merits. Period. That's what I personally want. If this isn't a place where that can happen that's fine. I won't begrudge anyone or take offense. I just want to know what the rules are so I don't have anything spoiled for me by outside information. I think that's pretty simple, isn't it?

DSGamer, I am right there with you. I thought this thread was a safe haven from spoilers (book or show) just like you, and yet people keep bringing up information about the book and comparing the two. What's worse is that they don't seem to realize the off hand comments they make are basically spoilers, or they just don't care. Any time you reference differences, or talk about the importance of one character or another you are giving away possible story threads. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying you are outright telling us what happens next but you are inferring a lot.

For those of you who have read the books, and insist on comparing the two, why are you even posting in this thread? It's not like you have to worry about spoilers! There is a whole other thread to discuss stuff like this? If that's what people want, than I see no reason this thread needs to even exist, and I will bow out of the conversation as well. It's ridiculous that people around here still don't understand that they are actively excluding people from the conversation in threads like these. It's stupid.

Gaald wrote:

For those of you who have read the books, and insist on comparing the two, why are you even posting in this thread? It's not like you have to worry about spoilers! There is a whole other thread to discuss stuff like this? If that's what people want, than I see no reason this thread needs to even exist, and I will bow out of the conversation as well. It's ridiculous that people around here still don't understand that they are actively excluding people from the conversation in threads like these. It's stupid.

It's not stupid. Some may not have read all of the books that are covered in the other thread. Where do they go?

I still don't consider something that's already occurred on TV to be a spoiler if it's contrasted with the books. For example, the lack of wolves on TV up to this point is odd. Doesn't seem like a spoiler to me that wolves were mentioned more in the book. What's spoiled if somebody asks where are the wolves at this point when they've disappeared off of TV?

Now stuff that might still happen in the future in a different way on TV? That stuff should be off limits. But Dany's motivation or a scene change that will in no way ever be done a different way on TV is not really "spoiling" anything. It's just different.

Now getting into things like Dany's potential character growth and hinting at stuff like that in discussion of her motivation or development is crossing lines, and I think that's where some readers are having a difficult time.

To be safer the thread title needs to change. The way its worded makes it seem it safe to talk about the book too even if it didnt make it into the show.

As for those of us who have read the book and are posting here is that we're passionate about the story. Dont think anyone is intentionally trying to ruin it for others, but we do like talking about it and sharing with others. Personally i think the idea of seperate threads are silly too. We have spoiler tags for a reason.

MannishBoy wrote:

Now getting into things like Dany's potential character growth and hinting at stuff like that in discussion of her motivation or development is crossing lines, and I think that's where some readers are having a difficult time.

Plus some may mistake what thread they're in when posting. I know i have to double check which one i'm in.

ranalin wrote:

As for those of us who have read the book and are posting here is that we're passionate about the story. Dont think anyone is intentionally trying to ruin it for others, but we do like talking about it and sharing with others. Personally i think the idea of seperate threads are silly too. We have spoiler tags for a reason.

Heh, maybe we spoiler tag book talk in this thread with the assumption that if it's in this thread it's not future spoilers, but just book talk up to the current timeline on the show.

(only half serious)