lunchbox12682 and anyone else with teen kids, could I ask you to share some wisdom about that transition from (largely inconsequential) grade 7 to 9 school mode to the more senior years (where open doors of opportunity could start to slam shut if the kids fail to take school seriously)?
I kicked it up a notch as a teen because I didn't want to inherit the family farming business. In contrast, my son's currently thinking of joining the family farming business because he enjoyed a single stint of merchandising and comraderie working in the huge market sheds with family and customers. It's an honest but hard life. Heck, so is being a self employed professional.
Honestly, I'm not sure it's my role as a parent to dictate what career a child should pursue. Yet I'm kind of torn now because I want them to enjoy childhood yet also they need to start thinking of the road they want to travel along and making the necessary commitments to complete that journey. That seems to be the feedback from high school teachers - kids should buckle down or they might find themselves missing opportunities if they fail to attain a certain level of academic results.
There's also the issue of schools being woefully prepared or resourced to equip kids with the skills their generation will likely require. For example, the ability to code or at least understand how to manipulate AI and other digital/automation tools to do it for them. So my logic is that if schools don't equip them to succeed in life, I should bridge that gap as a parent.
Parenting older kids has its own challenges and I have no idea how to tackle it.
If he's actually got an idea of what he'd like to do he's already more prepared than most teens. Could you try to steer him towards the business management side of the family farm? It will still require him to apply himself at school but with the end goal of what he's actually interested in doing. I think concerns about not knowing how to code is a bit overblown if he has no interest in fields that would need that knowledge. And given that knowing how to prompt ai's wasn't really a thing until just the last year or so, I wouldn't worry that schools aren't teaching it yet.
Unfortunately, my oldest is only 12 so I am not a fountain of information. And even if I was, it's probably a get what you pay for situation.
Even though I'm an embedded software engineer, I agree with Stengah that learning to code in high school or lower is overrated. The focus should demystifying tech (of which coding is A way to do that) and critical thinking and problem solving. AI and the other stuff is similar, where knowing how to do it is good, but not necessary. Especially compared to being able to detect what is likely from AI or faked anyway.
I do agree that taking school seriously is important with a balance of learning over just grades. I often managed the latter without enough of the former.
I think business plus ag is not a bad idea. It wouldn't have been for me. I knew I was going to be an engineer from early on, but I think I'm more unusual in that.
Good luck. Even having a pre-teen is a pain. I am not looking forward to the teen years either.
Yeah, I only figured out how high school worked in Grade 9 and settled on what I wanted to do in Grade 10. So in many respects I know I'm being hypocritical having any expectations as to the boy having a solid game plan at his age, but it's the Asian doomsday prepper in me that can't stop worrying 
I also shouldn't disparage his teachers too much because whatever they're doing, apparently he has no time in class to game after completing his work like he was in grade 7. I wasn't exactly crying my heart out when he told me this...
I think he'll be fine with the business management aspects whatever he does. I've been subtly cramming his head with economic theory, taxation and geopolitical knowledge from an early age; my siblings are both university grads and my parents will teach him street smarts. If he wants to join the family business there, it'll be a toss up on whether he pursues a commerce/business degree or agriculture/food science. Perhaps both??
Yet I'm kinda hedging his future opportunities in case he wants to instead pursue something in music and entertainment. Last night his orchestral percussion tutor offered to send him junior students once he finishes one set of national music exams. He's studying grade 6 of 8 and he's not even one of her most technically proficient students (more from indolence then ineptitude). I think one of the biggest things he has going for him is his innate maturity and reliability for his age. Poor guy keeps getting pulled out of class to support the school band operations all the time, although I wonder if it's a rite of passage for the younger students. If there's one thing he's keen on, it's building a little musical studio and teaching kids and he hasn't ruled out tertiary musical studies. He wants that sweet music tuition hourly rate
In some ways he's so spoilt for choice in pathways it makes it hard to narrow down what to focus on.
I also need to reflect on a recent conversation with a high school / university friend. He was so bitter about his father's expectations for him and his sister; of the disappointment despite him becoming an actuary and going on to work in a senior role in government, and how those pressures pushed his sister to complete her medical degree and promptly disassociate herself with their father. Personally such an outcome would be crushing and if anything it's the one thing I want to avoid if possible.
Anecdote - I decided roughly what career I wanted when I was 6 (if we rule out "astronaut"). I went to university for a degree in that field, and I've been a professional in that field for 25 years.
It's not the right job for me.
It is a job I'm suited for and good at, and it pays very well. But it's not fulfilling or meaningful.
My takeaway, focus less on the career itself and more on raising a kid with the introspection and wisdom to recognize when they're in the wrong gig and the flexibility and adaptability to find something else when they do. Cos I didn't really grapple with that fact until my mid-40s, and hard left turns in your career are much harder now than in your twenties.
Anecdote - I decided roughly what career I wanted when I was 6 (if we rule out "astronaut"). I went to university for a degree in that field, and I've been a professional in that field for 25 years.
It's not the right job for me.
It is a job I'm suited for and good at, and it pays very well. But it's not fulfilling or meaningful.
My takeaway, focus less on the career itself and more on raising a kid with the introspection and wisdom to recognize when they're in the wrong gig and the flexibility and adaptability to find something else when they do. Cos I didn't really grapple with that fact until my mid-40s, and hard left turns in your career are much harder now than in your twenties.
EXCELLENT POINT! You don't need to love your job/career. You just need to not hate it and have other actually fulfilling things to do with your life the rest of the time.
My job (and more importantly my coworkers, bosses, etc.) are fine. But the job covers what I need and let's me have the time and money to do the kids stuff I do love with them.
Jonman wrote:Anecdote - I decided roughly what career I wanted when I was 6 (if we rule out "astronaut"). I went to university for a degree in that field, and I've been a professional in that field for 25 years.
It's not the right job for me.
It is a job I'm suited for and good at, and it pays very well. But it's not fulfilling or meaningful.
My takeaway, focus less on the career itself and more on raising a kid with the introspection and wisdom to recognize when they're in the wrong gig and the flexibility and adaptability to find something else when they do. Cos I didn't really grapple with that fact until my mid-40s, and hard left turns in your career are much harder now than in your twenties.
EXCELLENT POINT! You don't need to love your job/career. You just need to not hate it and have other actually fulfilling things to do with your life the rest of the time.
My job (and more importantly my coworkers, bosses, etc.) are fine. But the job covers what I need and let's me have the time and money to do the kids stuff I do love with them.
Agree with both of you.
It's really hard in our society to remember this truth. Stay off LinkedIn!
For sure, capability does not correlate with enjoyment.
Yet, what if you could do something you are passionate about?
Forget about those BS LinkedIn posts and picture perfect TikTok clips of "a daily life of in a startup" crap. I'm talking about, the stuff where you get out of bed in the morning feeling like you have purpose and meaning.
I'm not going to say my work doesn't occasionally present days on end where I wonder why I'm pushing all this paper around and whether it's worth it. But I genuinely enjoy my work as a whole, albeit, I'm privileged to be self employed and paid handsomely for my time.
It's kind of where I'm angling the kids?
First priority is to put food on your table, beyond that, if you can, build a pathway in life so you can do what you enjoy both in and out of work.
Sorry for not digging through the 173 pages in this thread. I am CERTAIN this has been discussed, but maybe there's new data in 2023. What are the recommendations for a first kid phone? My 9-year old daughter wants to walk the 2 blocks to the community park and hang out with her friends. She is insistent on being independent. Do you have recommendations on a phone that has location tracking and just basic calls and texts? No social media, no YouTube, etc.
My kids will earn a phone when they can maintain the same water bottle and not break or lose it for a year…
My kids will earn a phone when they can maintain the same water bottle and not break or lose it for a year…
Yeah, I realize we may be jumping the gun. 9 is still pretty darn young. My wife has memories of hanging out in the neighborhood at that age and we really don't have that where we live. We have individual friends scattered around but the park seems like a good gathering location, given that we don't all have front stoops.
Sorry for not digging through the 173 pages in this thread. I am CERTAIN this has been discussed, but maybe there's new data in 2023. What are the recommendations for a first kid phone? My 9-year old daughter wants to walk the 2 blocks to the community park and hang out with her friends. She is insistent on being independent. Do you have recommendations on a phone that has location tracking and just basic calls and texts? No social media, no YouTube, etc.
First thing that comes to mind are those phones for people with very bad vision. Jitterbug or something like that. Its basically a flip phone with some pre programmed numbers in it.
We did get our 9yo an iphone because it was a hand me down from my wife upgrading and the line cost was relatively negligible.
There's been a learning curve for her to be responsible and what is allowed or not. But the options to lockdown her phone and tracking are great as she has to be home alone at times or dropped off for activities or running around the neighborhood.
Note, her older brother had one so it was easy to make the jump. He didn't get one until he was 10 or 11.
Also, neither child has their own phone. They have phones provided by mom and dad that they are allowed to use.
I would hit up your MobilePhone provider, and ask what zero dollar phones they have. Most providers have zero dollar phones that are basically four or five generations ago. And you get them with minimal minutes but some good data. And then you install or activate the track my location feature.
You would have to look into the various parental controls available on each platform. I think with the iPhone, you can set it up so that as a parent, you have to approve any purchases or anything like that. I don’t know about the android ecosystem though.
Keithustus wrote:My kids will earn a phone when they can maintain the same water bottle and not break or lose it for a year…
Yeah, I realize we may be jumping the gun. 9 is still pretty darn young. My wife has memories of hanging out in the neighborhood at that age and we really don't have that where we live. We have individual friends scattered around but the park seems like a good gathering location, given that we don't all have front stoops.
If you have T mobile, the kids watch might be a good option. You can track location, make calls, do texts. You have fun control over the contacts she can communicate with.
I think Verizon has a similar option.
What are the recommendations for a first kid phone? My 9-year old daughter wants to walk the 2 blocks to the community park and hang out with her friends. She is insistent on being independent. Do you have recommendations on a phone that has location tracking and just basic calls and texts? No social media, no YouTube, etc.
To be That Guy - why do you need to track a 9 yo that’s going to the park two blocks away?
Probably not something they intend to use reguarly but want it available should the need ever arise. Anything from kid lost the phone between home and the park to kid is late coming home and isn't answering the phone.
I guess I’m going old school on this one. What need would arise that necessitates instant communication with a kid two blocks away? What happens that means you can’t take the three minutes to drive there (or the five to walk)? Granted I’m biased due to my own parenting style, but I can two-finger whistle and my kids started coming home when they hear it when they were about that age, if not a bit younger.
Instead of a phone, how about a smart watch?
We got our 9 yo a Pixbee (can voice or vid call, you can even remotely view from the camera) around the time she started walking home from the bus stop.
It's strapped to the wrist so the chance of them losing it is lowered and limited functionality prevents downloading inappropriate apps or other unsupervised activities.
We rarely use it as she's mostly home and will msg or call me on discord once she's back in wifi territory but it has come in clutch for example when our cable internet was down and she called me to try to troubleshoot while I was at work.
It's a 10min / 800m / 900 yards walk from the bus to home crossing a couple of streets. These days we're not so worried but two years ago was a different story.
My oldest son (16) and I disagree about Andrew Tate. I think he's a bad person; my kid thinks he's someone to (at least) listen to. My extra-special loathe is that I don't know a lot about him, and his brand and message are specifically designed to appeal to young middle class white men. I can't provide solid reasons why there are plenty of better role models; everything is "taken out of context" or "misinterpreted" or couched in language that makes it hard to call out. What do I point to in order to demonstrate that he's not a person to pay attention to?
(Cross-posting in the Loathe thread.)
I don't know enough about Andrew Tate to construct a compelling case against him as a person. Literally everything I do know has been enough of a red flag that I've never felt it worth my time to try to know more.
That said, at 16, the harder you try to forbid your son from idolizing this particular douche, the harder he will idolize him anyway. Instead, I would suggest addressing the talking points as opposed to the person, and Socratic-methoding as hard as you can bring yourself to do.
Son: Well, Andrew Tate says this.
You: Interesting. Why would he say that, do you think? Who benefits if he says that? Do you think he's an unbiased, disinterested person on that topic, or do you think he has a vested interest in that point of view? Does what he says agree with your lived experience? Does that course of action sound ethical? How do you think a young woman around your age would react to hearing that?
You are unlikely to completely flip your son on any particular point in the space of one conversation, but you can arm him with the critical thinking skills to re-examine the bullsh*t he's being fed once his brain has matured a little more and he's accumulated more life experience. It's tough to be patient when you see your little boy being led astray right in front of your face, but if five years from now he gets a proverbial bloody nose from life by modeling his behavior after that of this particular douche and finds himself reminded of a conversation he had with Dad that might be applicable, you've done your job.
Also, Tate's under arrest for pending charges of human trafficking, rape and forming an organized crime group.
But the critical thinking thing is most important for breaking the idea hold.
Also, Tate's under arrest for pending charges of human trafficking, rape and forming an organized crime group.
[channeling my inner 16-year-old] Those are just allegations, nothing's been proven! What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty? [/inner 16-year-old]
That's reason enough for you or I to know that where there's smoke there's fire and he's almost certainly a piece of sh*t, especially when combined with all the other red flags. But never underestimate the power of a 16-year-old to rationalize and compartmentalize when the alternative is to introspect enough to have to change his thought and/or behavior patterns.
Now you're making all Republicans sound like 16 year olds. 
"Making" them sound like 16-year-olds? No.
"Observing" the similarities? Sure. (:
The "behind the bastards" podcast did some episodes on Andrew tate, I haven't listened to those eoisodes yet, but generally they do good job of targeting both the horror and rediculousness of evil people's actions. Might be a useful source of info.
Nothing like your 4 year old waking up vomiting at midnight. Thank goodness we still had the waterproof mattress cover just in case of potty accidents on still even though we haven't had one of those in over a year.
Thank goodness we still had the waterproof mattress cover...
Between kids and the dog those things have proven themselves time and time again. All the beds have one now. It's just part of the kit.
Nothing like your 4 year old waking up vomiting at midnight. Thank goodness we still had the waterproof mattress cover just in case of potty accidents on still even though we haven't had one of those in over a year.
My 8 year old still has one on there bed just in case and I don't see it changing anytime soon.
Chiming in late on the Tate thing - I nipped that in the bud early when the boy was 12/13 and Tate was trending even then. Granted, my son tends to respect and follow my advice even in his moody teenage phase.
Actually, 13 was hard, but at 14 he's a lot more mature and in control of himself. At least that's the impression I get. I firstly asked if he'd heard of him, then started him thinking about whether he thought the things he'd heard were appropriate if someone did that to his mother or sister, or indeed any female relative or girls he knew at school. Once he concluded it was trash I then validated his conclusion with more reasoning and told him to back himself and the beliefs and critical thinking we instilled in him from an early age. Also told him I'd smack his head if I ever discovered him deploying Tate trash thinking for good measure
Point here is not to alienate him by directly bringing your stone tablets from the mountain (you'll be that parent who is too old and doesn't understand) and instead engaging his reasoning faculties. Definitely, confrontation doesn't work well with young men - remember their fight or flight instinct will kick in and they don't have the level of self mastery you have with the benefit of living experience and the wisdom of elders. They will more likely pick the fight option.
Then share some father son time watching cool non toxic masculinity YT content eg NW Fishing Secrets and Outdoor Chef Life (I'm biased) where cool dudes fish, respect nature and cook etc. Grab him and make him help prep his fave dishes. Do stuff and normalise behaviour which is antithetical to Tate and his ilk. I think that's the best way to guide them at that age; show AND tell.
And most of all, best of luck and keep asking questions! I don't have complete or even perfectly correct answers but I think it's in the striving to be better parents that we do the greatest service to our kids.
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