Agent-based Sandbox Games

I've been following Stonehearth dev blogs and it is coming along. I'm really doing my best to just leave it cooking until I can build a town like the concept art in the kickstarter. If they can get it there, even if it's late, I'll be very happy. Clockwork Empires is also high on my watch list, but I won't be buying in until it's ready, or very nearly there.

I've never really seen many agent-based or city building games on Android that either worked well, weren't F2P nonsense, or weren't incredibly hard to interact with on a touch screen.

I think Timber and Stone got a big update recently -- anyone tried it? It's been so long that I thought development had stopped.

I think Rimworld is the game I've played most in the genre. It is absolutely solid and a lot of fun. I highly recommend it to anyone that wants to play now as you can actually play a full game to "completion" (getting your settlers off the planet) and there's a lot of variability depending on which story-teller you choose and whether or not you use mods. It also runs very smoothly on my Macbook, which is a plus.

Some of the others -- Clockwork Empires, Stonehearth, Maia -- just seem too far out to invest in at this point, but I'm excited to watch them develop.

ebarstad wrote:

I think Timber and Stone got a big update recently -- anyone tried it? It's been so long that I thought development had stopped.

So it did! I had thought the same thing. I just downloaded the newest build and was surprised. Textures everywhere! It looks like a real 3-D gnomoria at the moment, although I didn't get a chance to do anything other than start a new map. I will try to check out the gameplay later.

Edit: Forgot to mention, I ended up playing Stonehearth most of the weekend. Played two games, until they eventually ran into AI bugs with the newest classes. I was able to get into every profession currently available though, and mine ores, smelt them, build houses and roads, do farming, etc. The devs had a lot of delays working on the game's AI, but seeing it in action, I think it was worth it. They're smart about about when to use or not use roads, the patrol paths the guards take own their own is great, and they do a great job building the predesigned structures.

AI for these agent games is quite difficult to write. There are so, so many corner cases. It's no shock for it to take a long time.

It's easy to take for granted in games like Dwarf Fortress, where he's been working on it for like ten years now. Doing it from scratch is tough.

I really want to try games like Timber and Stone and Stonehearth, but not when they're still so early access. Based on the pace of progress on these games they won't be released until some time in 2016, if ever.

Of course when they *are* released, I probably won't want to play them because they're too complex for me. Like Gnomoria - I bought that and I just don't feel like investing the time into learning it.

For me that's part of the appeal of playing these type games during early access, as long as you don't burn yourself out on them. By starting early you learn the complexity as the game develops. It works out like something of a tutorial. That is until you sit it out for a while, systems are totally revamped, and then you're stuck with the habits you built that aren't applicable at all now.

I just want to report that I fired up Spacebase DF-9 for the first time since it hit 1.0, just to see if they'd done anything since I last played to really make it worthwhile.

In short, they didn't. I don't want to beat a dead horse here, but it's a bad game and I wouldn't recommend it.

IMAGE(http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/013/003/dead-horse.gif)

Any excuse to pull that gif out.

I will say that I am in the minority on Spacebase DF-9. I enjoyed what I played of it (about 7ish hours) and don't regret the money I spent on it. I do wish they had finished it of course, but we don't always get what we want in this life.

I would certainly not recommend anyone buy it now, though.

I like Early Access generally and early access agent-based games in particular (again, probably in the minority here). I like seeing them when they are simple barely games and coming back over and over again to see the systems becoming more and more complex and complete. It is almost like playing new and different games all the time.

Stonehearth Alpha 8 hit this week. Up until 6, I would pretty reliably grab the latest Alpha (Steam update ftw!), start a new town and play for a couple of hours to test out the new features, and then go back to Kerbal Space Program. It seems that (for me at least) that's the sweet spot in terms of early access - see the new features, play with them for a bit, but not getting too invested in what I've built.

The problem I'm anticipating is that as the development focus moves from early-game features to mid-game features, I'm starting to find that "a couple of hours" is what it takes to get access to the new features, and doesn't allow me to spend time playing with them. As a result, I'm not sure how much longer I'm going to play with the Alpha.

Though between Castle Story and Stonehearth, I have to say they perfectly illustrate the two ways that a kickstarted/early access game can engage with the community during development - the wrong way (Castle Story) and the right way (Stonehearth). Stonehearth's "Desktop Tuesday" videos where they post a ten-minute video with "what we've been working on since last week" with almost no missed weeks (I think three in the past nine months, two of which were over the December holidays) is a phenomenal way to keep the community engaged, while at the same time making sure that everyone knows development hasn't stalled or stopped. I don't know how much time they spend making those videos, but it's time well-spent.

Rimworld Alpha 9 - now with 100% more alcohol(ism):

This thread on the Rimworld forums is amazing:

What's your story of the most horrible thing you did in Rimworld?

Stonehearth Alpha 9 dropped the other day. I'm still trying to hold off playing it, but it seems like they are progressing nicely, even if delayed.

omni wrote:

Stonehearth Alpha 9 dropped the other day. I'm still trying to hold off playing it, but it seems like they are progressing nicely, even if delayed.

Haven't touched it since before mining was added. I never see it on my steam download list for updates is it a manual sort of thing since it's still alpha?

Hmm, good question. I have it added to steam, but haven't noticed it auto-updating. Perhaps you need to enable Beta opt-in or some such to get the updates? As I'm not playing it until it's ready, I've not really looked into it.

Odd. I think it should update on its own. I'm actually subscribed to the beta channel (beta of the alpha?) so it tends to update once or twice a week for me, with each build. I don't recommend this, because savegames do NOT work across builds. I only do this because I've already explored all of the features currently available, and usually just start it up for a bit to look at new features (although it's hard to stop once I start).

I thought this might fit here:

KeeperRL, a dwarf fortress/dungeon keeper roguelike: http://keeperrl.com/

Still in early, early alpha, but man it looks cool! Check out the youtube vids from aavak. The ascii graphics demo is free, but you can pay for an early access version with nice tile graphics. Enjoy.

Anyone given the latest build of StoneHearth a try lately? I have my finger on the buy button, but need a little bit of extra encouragement to actually go through with it.

It's getting better, but still sorta aimless. Plus there are still bugs that pop up and basically force you to start over. If I were to take a random wild guess I would say they're only maybe 30-40% complete with the game.

Agreed. I'm having fun playing it as-is, but saves still break between builds, and game-crashing bugs are not uncommon. I play an hour or two every time they release another alpha and then let it be. Unless you're REALLY excited by the concept, hold off for a while yet.

Feegle wrote:

Agreed. I'm having fun playing it as-is, but saves still break between builds, and game-crashing bugs are not uncommon. I play an hour or two every time they release another alpha and then let it be. Unless you're REALLY excited by the concept, hold off for a while yet.

I am excited about this one, but I'll hold off. Maybe I'll do some more Craft the World to tide me over.

Well, there's excited, and then there's OMG I MUST PLAY THIS NOW. If you're the former, hold off.

Man the new world in Craft the World seems pretty stingy with the wood. Maybe I'm just having trouble getting going but I've had to restart a few times now.

Rimworld continues to be great, I really love that game.

Timber and Stone is starting to look pretty sweet, not sure if I can resist a purchase. Edit: I couldn't, downloading it now. Sigh.

Would be interested to know how T&S is now.. it's been in my periphery for a long time, but development seemed to be a bit stop-start.

Stonehearth is also still pushing out updates fairly regularly, but I'm holding off on actually playing it until it's closer to completion.

Also, RimWorld will be purchased eventually ..

Timber and Stone's using textures now so it actually looks a lot like a PS1 game, which I think is really neat. The UI needs some work but the core game is alright. They made some weird decisions in that you can't click on workbenches to craft items or set up the 'maintain x', instead you have to click the resourced drop down at the top and find the item in there. That, and not having a quick way to find out which worker is skilled in what class("WHO WAS MY STONE MASON?!"). I sorta feel like they just got the UI 'working' so they could actually focus on the core game, so once that UI update(hopefully?) comes it'll be a pretty good game. I like that they visuals of it, hope they keep up the work.

Even though Stonehearth seems to be buggier I would say it's the better of the two if only because the UI is better. I still think Gnomoria is better than the both of them but once they get some more updates in they could eclipse Gnomoria on character animations alone.

Rimworld doesn't use the Z, so you're only ever on one layer but I actually thinks that helps a lot, instead of having to split your focus on across multiple levels you can just quickly zoom out and get a good look at where all of your colonists are at any given time. My main problem is that it can be so brutal in that you'll get huge waves of enemies where it eventually gets almost impossible to survive.

Found a good let's play series for Timber and Stone, figured I would share as it's taught me a lot about how the game works.

Rimworld Alpha 11 - Sappers and Traps:

Any recent feedback on KeeperRL? I'm on vacation, it's a rainy day at the cabin, and I don't have the brainpower to dive back into Dwarf Fortress just yet.

Even though it's been out for a few months I just got around to playing Rimworld Alpha 12. The biggest change is the addition of new animals and animal training.

And, just for kicks, I've started playing games in extreme environmental zones, like the arctic. You basically have to wall in a geothermal vent the first day or everyone dies of hypothermia during the night.

And then it's a race to get power and heat going while researching and building hydroponics so your folks don't starve. Needless to say there's been quite a few games were my guys have had to go all Donner Party to make it through the winter.

Stonehearth just dropped Alpha 14, and there's a lot of new content. It's been a while since it was mentioned here, so here's a quick summary of the main changes since Alpha 10.

Alpha 11
- Adds crates for storing stuff, configurable like stockpiles
- Gives hearthlings backpacks to carry multiple items to reduce time lugging stuff around
- Adds the Cook profession

Alpha 12
- Expands crafter benches; each crafter now has two or three workstations, more expensive of which are needed for more complicated crafting.
- Expanding animal types for the shepherd
- Tweaks to world generation

Alpha 13
- Adds a different kingdom, desert based with a focus on clay. Kingdom differences are not just cosmetic - reworks the "tech" tree putting pottery easier to reach, with carpentry further away.
- Adds the Potter profession
- Tweaks to building design to add in flat and castle-style roofs

Alpha 14
- Tons of new monsters, including Encounters (static monsters that you run into in the forest) as well as raids (that attack your settlement at night)
- Overhaul of Combat Controls
- Added Herbalist class, who heals injured hearthlings.

As expected, much bug-squashing in each iteration, as well as performance upgrades.

At this point, it's still very much a sandbox game with little to no storyline, per se, and on my PC (which I'll admit is a little older than I'd like) seems to chug along once you get to about 14 or 15 hearthlings. Building the predefined templates is fine, though there are often bugs when you try to custom-design a building and do anything fancy. Personally, I'm still in my "play the Alpha Release for a few hours and have some fun, then put it away and watch their weekly update videos until the next Alpha drops," phase.

Having never followed an alpha through as much as I have been with this one, I'm not sure if this is typical, but it's starting to get a little complicated to see what to do. I expect this has a lot to do with the fact that they're building the game right now, not the tutorial or the documentation, but I think it's hitting the point where if you don't jump in and try it now, you'll probably want to wait until there's some more structured introductions in place, lest it be completely opaque.

So, it looks like Gnomoria released today.