Pixar and Dreamworks films discussions

I'm going to say it's my favourite Pixar film by far. Everything from the grim reality of our planet, to the love story between two robots with more personality then most actors in this day and age, just struck a cord with me.

In reality, I just love what Pixar is doing and can't wait for what's coming.

muttonchop wrote:
Zelos wrote:

The basic message of The Incredibles was a bit odd, if I remember correctly. The 'bad' guy is the one who has no innate powers but, through his own hard work and intelligence, achieves effective super powers. The good guys are the ones who rely on the innate powers they were born with to win. So is the message "if you weren't born powerful, don't bother trying"? Or you could even say it's a bit eugenic.

Maybe I missed something or I'm just trying to read too much into it, though.

Yeah, the message is definitely interesting. I mean, not only does he work hard to give himself the powers that others are simply born to, but when he finally achieves his goal he is rejected by the hero he idolizes, who sees him as nothing but a nuisance and a liability.

I didn't see it as Mr. Incredible rejecting his hard work. The way I saw it, Buddy could create all the inventions he wanted but in the end, he was still a child. He was a Mr. Incredible fanboy who was willing to put his life in danger to "play hero." He deliberately interfered in the fight between Mr. Incredible and Bomb Voyage just to show off his inventions. As a result, he nearly got himself killed. If anything, it was Mr. Incredible's job to set him straight. Buddy just couldn't understand that. I feel that Buddy could've been a great hero as an adult if he didn't harbor the grudge toward Mr. Incredible.

Syndrome was quite possibly the smartest person on the planet, considering how much more advanced his tech was than anything else we saw. Is it less a power because it's not physical?

Mystic Violet wrote:

I didn't see it as Mr. Incredible rejecting his hard work. The way I saw it, Buddy could create all the inventions he wanted but in the end, he was still a child. He was a Mr. Incredible fanboy who was willing to put his life in danger to "play hero." He deliberately interfered in the fight between Mr. Incredible and Bomb Voyage just to show off his inventions. As a result, he nearly got himself killed. If anything, it was Mr. Incredible's job to set him straight. Buddy just couldn't understand that. I feel that Buddy could've been a great hero as an adult if he didn't harbor the grudge toward Mr. Incredible.

Oh, absolutely. I was talking more about how things seemed from Buddy's perspective. Mr. Incredible's actions were justified, but in Buddy's mind he'd finally managed to elevate himself to superhero status but Mr. Incredible still refused to treat him as an equal. But like you said, if Mr. Incredible had done a better job of setting him straight instead of just treating him like a nuisance he might have become a great asset to humanity instead of devoting his life to revenge.

muttonchop wrote:
Mystic Violet wrote:

I didn't see it as Mr. Incredible rejecting his hard work. The way I saw it, Buddy could create all the inventions he wanted but in the end, he was still a child. He was a Mr. Incredible fanboy who was willing to put his life in danger to "play hero." He deliberately interfered in the fight between Mr. Incredible and Bomb Voyage just to show off his inventions. As a result, he nearly got himself killed. If anything, it was Mr. Incredible's job to set him straight. Buddy just couldn't understand that. I feel that Buddy could've been a great hero as an adult if he didn't harbor the grudge toward Mr. Incredible.

Oh, absolutely. I was talking more about how things seemed from Buddy's perspective. Mr. Incredible's actions were justified, but in Buddy's mind he'd finally managed to elevate himself to superhero status but Mr. Incredible still refused to treat him as an equal. But like you said, if Mr. Incredible had done a better job of setting him straight instead of just treating him like a nuisance he might have become a great asset to humanity instead of devoting his life to revenge.

I think the message of The Incredibles is that people who are different, who have talents and gifts other people don't have, shouldn't be forced into mediocrity. Maybe I say that as a parent of two children in advanced learning classes where I constantly watch them get dragged back down to the lowest common denominator the 4 days of the week they are not with the advanced learning teacher.

Buddy's achievements in the movie were no less spectacular but with all his hard work he was still trying to be like the people he idolized rather than realizing his potential for its own ends. He could very well have been every bit the hero that Mr. Incredible was, but instead he used it for a power trip. He wasn't born with a special power but he still achieved a great deal just through hard work and persistence, yet even when he had done so it wasn't enough. Not to mention he did not use his achievements for the greater good but for his own personal ambitions. He also achieved his goals through the exploitation of others. His part is a cautionary tale.

Zelos wrote:

The basic message of The Incredibles was a bit odd, if I remember correctly. The 'bad' guy is the one who has no innate powers but, through his own hard work and intelligence, achieves effective super powers. The good guys are the ones who rely on the innate powers they were born with to win. So is the message "if you weren't born powerful, don't bother trying"? Or you could even say it's a bit eugenic.

Maybe I missed something or I'm just trying to read too much into it, though.

I noticed that too. They make a point of repeating the line "If everyone is special, no one will be" multiple times throughout the movie. It had a very odd sense of heroism to it that doesn't fit with normal Hollywood/Kid's movie moralizing. Though I disagree with some of the Nietzchean undertones of the script, the fact that it is brave enough to explore that central part of the superhero myth is one of the reasons I love the movie.

Not trying to derail the thread though. Wall-E was pretty cool too

So what message was Wall-E trying to convey?

Grenn wrote:

So what message was Wall-E trying to convey? ;)

If we screw up the planet we can just go on a luxury space cruise and eventually things will sort themselves out.

Grenn wrote:

So what message was Wall-E trying to convey? ;)

Sporks aren't easy to file.

I rented Wall-E for the weekend, I figure that it would be something my GF would enjoy.

While I was not very optimistic about the move, what I saw from the trailer... it was pretty but 'meh'! In the end though, I really like the movie and I thought it was awesome. However my GF, much to my surprise, she actually didn't get into it until the... Infamous Magic vs. Science Spaceship Garbage Disposal scene.

So yeah, Wall-E = Awesome.

- rant -

I end up renting a DVD version of Wall-E, so that I can watch it on a PS3, that is connected to a 1080 HDTV. Yay, me!
Seriously, I know Blu-ray is kind of dead in the water (statement based on Interwebz, there for I'm most likely 100% wrong) but my local Blockbuster's Blu-ray section is smaller than a PC Games section at GameStop! It actually kind of funny, first thing you see when you enter my local Blockbuster is a station that has like a 42" LCD with a PS3, running a demo of how great movies look and sound on Blu-ray! ...but than, you look at what they have and it's kind of depressing.

Switchbreak wrote:

Not trying to derail the thread though. Wall-E was pretty cool too :drink:

Well, the thread is for discussing other Pixar films, so we're perfectly fine talking about The Incredibles.

I'm probably going to change the title of the thread to just a discussion about Pixar films.

Grenn wrote:

So what message was Wall-E trying to convey? ;)

Loved ones come before work.

Directive!

WALL-E's message is that we should accept Louis Armstrong "Kiss To Build a Dream On" as a staple song to play on top of post-apocalyptic environments.

Also, Red is the new Blue and anything can be made into a smoothie.

muttonchop wrote:

Also, Red is the new Blue and anything can be made into a smoothie.

The whole liquid diet thing though... that would be pretty gross.

Working in a home theater store, Wall-E on bluray has rapidly become our favorite demo. It's actually been the deciding factor a few times. The movie is fantastic, and it looks terrific.

trichy wrote:

Working in a home theater store, Wall-E on bluray has rapidly become our favorite demo. It's actually been the deciding factor a few times. The movie is fantastic, and it looks terrific.

Eh, there's other movies that are just as impressive. Kung-Fu Panda is just as beautiful to look at as Wall-E and offers a generally far more vibrant setting.

And for live action stuff the new Hulk movie has an amazing high def transfer.

Thin_J wrote:

Kung-Fu Panda is just as beautiful to look at as Wall-E and offers a generally far more vibrant setting.

Truth. Kung Fu Panda is a visual treat on BluRay, with far more "wow" scenes than Wall-E. I should also note Madagascar which looks damned near 3D on BluRay.

In defense of Mr. Incredible's treatment of buddy, he was on his way to his wedding. He's only super strong, not super nice.

I agree with Botswana's assessment of The Incredibles. The point of the movie is that some people can do great things and that preventing them from doing great things because it might make people who can't do great things feel bad is silly and wrong. In other words, it's about math: Not everyone can be above average.

I don't get the antipathy towards Cars. I didn't think I'd like it, but then I watched it and bam! It's in my top three. (Along with The Incredibles and Monsters Inc). It's got a good story about not being a cocky jackass, and how we can actually learn things from our elders. What's not to like? Even Larry the Cable guy comes across funny rather than obnoxious in it.

I haven't seen Wall-E yet. I gave it to my wife for her birthday yesterday, so we'll probably be watching it this weekend. I'm not too concerned about what the message of Wall-E is, because I have faith in Pixar to make the movie entertaining regardless of the message. Monsters Inc was basically a diatribe against Oil companies (Energy company suppresses more efficient technology to maintain dominance), but it's still one of my favorite Pixar movies. If Wall-E's point is that humans are filthy, disgusting, evil creatures who defile everything, then all the writers are guilty of is being typical Hollywood people. At least the movie will have a cute robot in it.

One thing I detest about the DVD, though, is the "earth friendly packaging." Word of advice to you eco-friendly packaging engineers out there: If the packaging scratches the disc so badly that I have to return it twice before get a watchable copy (as it did with each of the Futurama movies I've bought to date), then you're not saving any trees or using less plastic.

Yeah that cardboard package is terrible.

I just watched the Pixar short BURN-E which revisits some of the Wall-E movie through the experience of a repair bot on the space liner.

All in all I enjoyed Wall-e but most of the dialog was nothing but ... "WALL-E"....."EEEE-VA" repeated ad infinitum.

On a co-branding note just identified the U-control WALL-E as a Christmas gift for my son.

Just watched this on DVD, maybe it's the whiskey talking but I thought it was one of the best films I've seen in a long long time. A+++

The Pixar movies are ones that can be broken down a number of ways. I've had to watch all of them (before Wall-E, we don't have that one yet) multiple times and basically if you take them at face value there is a story there but as you keep re-watching them you basically notice that nothing changes and most things are in there for laughs.

Ratattoulle (I'm sure I spelled that wrong) is my favorite only because it makes a joke of the hardest things for me to get over in the Pixar films, the fact that a non-human personification is existing in a human/human-like world.

Toy Story - A tale of how toys do have an existence beyond how we humans interact with them. They also have human like emotions of jealousy and are just as capable of being backstabbing jerks. Does Woody get punished for pushing Buzz out the window, a little bit but since he comes back with him in the end it's all right he pushed him out the window in the first place. Also, the fact that now Andy for the first time in how many years old he is (somewhere between 7-10 I'd say) is now able to have two favorite toys by the end of the movie instead of just one. The first story Pixar does on the theme of worlds colliding (humans/toys)

Bug's Life - An ant that is smarter than the other ants is made fun of and kicked out of the colony for thinking out of line and wanting to stand up to the grasshoppers. This one actaully isn't that bad, it is in fact Buddy's story from Incredibles in reverse perspective.

Monster's Inc - A funny flick, sure but why only human screams and laughter? Monsters laugh and scream, soundwaves are soundwaves. Why the myth of humans being monsters to the monsters? It doesn't make them more effective at scaring them. How did the monsters get to the technological level or being able to create the doors without having humans to generate the power? Where does an monster in Nepal get lemons for lemonade? It was urine, I'm telling you. Worlds collide part 2, humans/monsters.

Toy Story 2 - An interesting piece on what we do with toys as we age, luckily Woody is able to suck it up and get thrown in the trash with his best friend Buzz.

Cars - Worlds collide in a major way. Lose yourself to find yourself. But basically, you can be a jerk and get ahead. Ok, cars are people, then why did cars evolve to have cockpits/compartments for people? How are trains and planes related to cars? Can a car grow up to be a plane or train? How do cars procreate? How did cars get started without the infrastructure to process minerals into steel and refine crude oil? Basically, it's the new star wars in terms of merchandising. Tramp stamps also look good on porsches I guess is another bullet point to take from the movie.

Incredibles - The more realistic thing that happens to people like Brody, I mean Buddy. Cast off to the side and not to be affiliated with 'real' superheroes. Buddy does have a super power though, he can create things just by thinking of them. He may not even need to work that hard at it but since he doesn't respect the status quo he must be dealt with accordingly. Sure years of chewing over the cud that he was dealt warped his mind but he also made it to where the Richards family, I mean Parr family can be the only super group to bask in the glory. If Sindrome hadn't killed off most of the other supers they'd have to compete for those merchandising contracts. I say, let dash compete, after a few races he'll realize he is so much better than everyone else in that sport he'll grow bored, forcing him to take second isn't a viable solution long term. Better to have him join the chess club or something else that doesn't use his super ability as the measuring stick. Worlds of supers and normal humans collide here. Humans win for a bit, Bob broods, then Bob doesn't care and starts being super again anyway. Also can be blamed for helping the average joe accepting superhero/comic book movies. Since there are no origin stories presented other than sindrome's you can safely assume that they did rip off the Fantastic Four archetypical characters and just change the roles of the people that had the powers.

Ratatoulle - A rat that can cook. An absurd choice of story where again worlds collide. But this time they're exploring their absurd choice and the collision in general.

Wall-E - Haven't seen it, think it's funny people ban the flick because it makes fun of fat people. Psst, we're Americans and thus generally fat.

Eezy_Bordone wrote:

Wall-E - Haven't seen it, think it's funny people ban the flick because it makes fun of fat people. Psst, we're Americans and thus generally fat.

It doesn't make fun of fat people, at least not that I saw.

It makes fun of a society that promotes complete laziness.

Thin_J, I'd respond if I could summon the energy. Alas.

I didn't know we had a pool!

Thin_J wrote:
Eezy_Bordone wrote:

Wall-E - Haven't seen it, think it's funny people ban the flick because it makes fun of fat people. Psst, we're Americans and thus generally fat.

It doesn't make fun of fat people, at least not that I saw.

It makes fun of a society that promotes complete laziness.

This subject is explained in the audio commentary. It's not only the fact that people became lazy. Humans have been living in outer space for 700 years. We already know that astronauts suffer bone loss in zero gravity. Andrew Stanton figured that even though the Axiom has simulated gravity, it wouldn't be perfect. Therefore, over time the humans on the Axiom still suffered from bone loss but at a much slower rate.

Heck, originally they weren't going to have any humans in Wall-E. They were going to be alien blobs of goo.

I didn't even think about the bone loss thing. I should have though, since it was featured in an episode of Bones that I watched recently.

Quintin_Stone wrote:

Thin_J, I'd respond if I could summon the energy. Alas.

You say it like your response would be a dissertation on the many ways my opinion is wrong

Recently watched WALL-E for the first time (yay X-mas), and I have to say, it's one of the best new films I've seen in a long time. Really happy I got it.

Thin_J wrote:
Eezy_Bordone wrote:

Wall-E - Haven't seen it, think it's funny people ban the flick because it makes fun of fat people. Psst, we're Americans and thus generally fat.

It doesn't make fun of fat people, at least not that I saw.

It makes fun of a society that promotes complete laziness.

This hits one of the areas where I think the film undeservedly gets a bad wrap from a handful of critics that somehow are missing the point. I mean like the movie or hate the movie, that's entirely subjective, but it simply doesn't make fun of fat people. I mean yeah, there's the bone loss thing, but really the humans in that movie are heroes. They're the generation that had the courage to cast aside the only life they've known, the only life humanity has known for generations, and return to a still decimated Earth and do the work to restore it. It's a pro-humanity movie even if it relies on robot protagonists to show the way. /soapbox.