Let's talk anime.

tuffalobuffalo wrote:
casual_alcoholic wrote:

Am I so jaded by watching anime in Japanese that I'm conditioned to hate hearing it in English?

Nope. Dubs in animation and live film have always been awful and always will be. :)

You only say that because you haven't watched the English dub of Cinema Paradisio.

ClockworkHouse wrote:
tuffalobuffalo wrote:
casual_alcoholic wrote:

Am I so jaded by watching anime in Japanese that I'm conditioned to hate hearing it in English?

Nope. Dubs in animation and live film have always been awful and always will be. :)

You only say that because you haven't watched the English dub of Cinema Paradisio.

IMAGE(http://fwooshflix.com/files/2012/10/1bodysnatchers2.jpg)

Yeah, that was pretty much the reaction I was hoping for.

Now now, the dubs for Steins;Gate were quite good. Much better than I had hoped for anyway. Too bad I can't say the same for most of the series that I tend to collect.

I know it was said tongue-in-cheek, but The Big O's English dub was arguably better than the original.

Kurrelgyre wrote:

I know it was said tongue-in-cheek, but The Big O's English dub was arguably better than the original.

Still, I should blatantly say that I'm not being serious about dubs vs. subs.

tuffalobuffalo wrote:
casual_alcoholic wrote:

Am I so jaded by watching anime in Japanese that I'm conditioned to hate hearing it in English?

Nope. Dubs in animation and live film have always been awful and always will be. :)

The dubs of Miyazaki films have always been good.

One of the good things about dubs is that they often gloss over or even ignore the dumb Japanese honorific stuff.

cheeba wrote:

One of the good things about dubs is that they often gloss over or even ignore the dumb Japanese honorific stuff.

I've apparently watched enough anime that I can pick up on honorifics in the subs even when the sub doesn't call it out.

Gremlin wrote:
cheeba wrote:

One of the good things about dubs is that they often gloss over or even ignore the dumb Japanese honorific stuff.

I've apparently watched enough anime that I can pick up on honorifics in the subs even when the sub doesn't call it out.

Yeah, but I'm talking about those times in every anime where one character makes a big deal out of which honorific (or not) to call someone else. "Omg she just called him by his actual name without an honorific!!!"

cheeba wrote:
Gremlin wrote:
cheeba wrote:

One of the good things about dubs is that they often gloss over or even ignore the dumb Japanese honorific stuff.

I've apparently watched enough anime that I can pick up on honorifics in the subs even when the sub doesn't call it out.

Yeah, but I'm talking about those times in every anime where one character makes a big deal out of which honorific (or not) to call someone else. "Omg she just called him by his actual name without an honorific!!!"

Hah, yeah. Stupid social cues that are a major part of communication in the culture that's producing the art. Glad we're free of those!

But the honorifics give pretty good insight about how one character feels/respects another. For example, in InuYasha, Naraku always made it a point to refer to Sesshoumaru as "Sesshoumaru-sama" when he addressed him in the beginning. That let's us know one of two things: either Naraku truly respected Sesshoumaru or at the very least he wanted Sesshoumaru to believe he respected him. (He still addressed him as "Sesshoumaru-sama" even after it is revealed that Naraku deceived Sesshoumaru when they first meet.) Either way, it tells us Naraku respected Sesshoumaru enough to at least keep up appearances. Later, he drops "sama" because he feels he has grown more powerful than Sesshoumaru and also no longer needs him. I don't believe words and actions alone would have revealed this unless he addressed it explicitly, which he doesn't. Also, there is a big difference in the level of respect between "dono", "sama" and "san". There is no English way to distinguish those.

So I don't understand why honorifics would bother someone. They're quite useful.

You do realize that they're writing that for a Japanese audience, not you, right?

If that was directed at me then yes I realize that. That doesn't mean it isn't useful though.

they're writing it for an audience, and the story is told within a certain cultural context.

personally, I love to get as much of the cultural subtleties as possible... which is usually why I prefer subs as they use much more literal translations without having to cut things out for the sake of lip-sync and timing.

n10sity wrote:

If that was directed at me then yes I realize that. That doesn't mean it isn't useful though.

Nope, don't think cube's comment was directed at you. You're safe

GrandmaFunk wrote:

they're writing it for an audience, and the story is told within a certain cultural context.

personally, I love to get as much of the cultural subtleties as possible... which is usually why I prefer subs as they use much more literal translations without having to cut things out for the sake of lip-sync and timing.

I miss watching fansubs that would do very literal translations and make cultural context comments. I watch everything on Crunchyroll or Hulu these days, and they don't do that.

I have been very lightly working on Japanese the last year. I don't even have literacy as an end-goal, but I really enjoy spending a little time on it a few days out of the week. The way the language is structured makes so much sense compared to English and the romance languages. It's almost like a language that was created by engineers.

n10sity wrote:

If that was directed at me then yes I realize that. That doesn't mean it isn't useful though.

It was directed at the person that said the honorifics were dumb, not you.

Yes, and I think it's super fun to learn the Japanese idioms rather than just get very approximate English equivalents.

Tanglebones wrote:
cheeba wrote:
Gremlin wrote:
cheeba wrote:

One of the good things about dubs is that they often gloss over or even ignore the dumb Japanese honorific stuff.

I've apparently watched enough anime that I can pick up on honorifics in the subs even when the sub doesn't call it out.

Yeah, but I'm talking about those times in every anime where one character makes a big deal out of which honorific (or not) to call someone else. "Omg she just called him by his actual name without an honorific!!!"

Hah, yeah. Stupid social cues that are a major part of communication in the culture that's producing the art. Glad we're free of those!

You tell em, bonsey!

Tanglebones wrote:

Hah, yeah. Stupid social cues that are a major part of communication in the culture that's producing the art. Glad we're free of those!

Absolutely. Makes our language much more efficient and less enforcing of dumb social status. (And yes, I realize you're being sarcastic.)

n10sity wrote:

So I don't understand why honorifics would bother someone. They're quite useful.

It's a philosophical problem I have with social status. I have the same problem with the other languages that have such contrivances: like in French, tu vs. vous. English has rid itself of most such things, though I think Mrs. vs. Miss vs. Ms. is dumb too.

cube wrote:

You do realize that they're writing that for a Japanese audience, not you, right?

Yup. I don't blame them for using it. I'm blaming the culture for having honorifics in the first place. Also, western silverware is far superior to chopsticks (for most things) :). That doesn't mean I think anime shouldn't have people using chopsticks. And, for the record, I'm also critical of their obsession with panties and brother-sister love. Japanese culture is cool and has a lot of interesting aspects to it, but it also has some dumb crap too :P.

those obsessions are from extremely narrow subcultures, and are in no way unique to Japan.

cheeba, being someone that doesn't spend much time in P&C, I typically don't care one way or another what opinion you're spouting that's pissing someone off or at the very least making them a tad flustered.

But right now even I'm confounded as to how to respond to any of that.

I guess what I'm saying is, congratulations, you broke me.

cheeba wrote:
Tanglebones wrote:

Hah, yeah. Stupid social cues that are a major part of communication in the culture that's producing the art. Glad we're free of those!

Absolutely. Makes our language much more efficient and less enforcing of dumb social status. (And yes, I realize you're being sarcastic.)

n10sity wrote:

So I don't understand why honorifics would bother someone. They're quite useful.

It's a philosophical problem I have with social status. I have the same problem with the other languages that have such contrivances: like in French, tu vs. vous. English has rid itself of most such things, though I think Mrs. vs. Miss vs. Ms. is dumb too.

cube wrote:

You do realize that they're writing that for a Japanese audience, not you, right?

Yup. I don't blame them for using it. I'm blaming the culture for having honorifics in the first place. Also, western silverware is far superior to chopsticks (for most things) :). That doesn't mean I think anime shouldn't have people using chopsticks. And, for the record, I'm also critical of their obsession with panties and brother-sister love. Japanese culture is cool and has a lot of interesting aspects to it, but it also has some dumb crap too :P.

Hi, all of my ancestors are from Japan.

Again, it's not made for you. It's made for just about everyone there.

GrandmaFunk wrote:

those obsessions are from extremely narrow subcultures, and are in no way unique to Japan.

Unique? No. More prevalent? Absolutely.

ccesarano wrote:

cheeba, being someone that doesn't spend much time in P&C, I typically don't care one way or another what opinion you're spouting that's pissing someone off or at the very least making them a tad flustered.

But right now even I'm confounded as to how to respond to any of that.

I guess what I'm saying is, congratulations, you broke me.

Well, if you were one of the SJW P&C'ers, your standard reply would be to flat out insult me and then report me because I dared to express an opinion outside the echo chamber :). Nothing I say should ever piss you off. If it does then you're taking me way too seriously. If you're confounded then "cheeba you're f*cking nuts" is a perfectly acceptable reply and something I am accustomed to ;).

cheeba wrote:
GrandmaFunk wrote:

those obsessions are from extremely narrow subcultures, and are in no way unique to Japan.

Unique? No. More prevalent? Absolutely.

prove it.

btw: the brother-sister love theme in anime is not about actual blood relatives, whereas true incest as an element of culture/media is exceedingly more prevalent in American society.

GrandmaFunk wrote:

prove it.

Panties in vending machines.

Don't get me wrong. I enjoy a good pantie. But yeah if you're making vending machines for them you're taking it to the next level.

and is that proof of the prevalence of a panty obsession.. or of the incredible variety and saturation of Japanese vending machines in general?

any idea how many of these panty vending machines actually exist?

IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/NN3fblk.png)

Do we have to do this song and dance in every thread?

lol echo chamber social justice warrior troll cockbite asshole privilege political correctness feminism liberal irony too sensitive didn't respond to what I said don't take it so seriously mods racism persecution just sayin' condescending infuriating frustrating ban dick

There we go. So, anyone excited for new shows next season?