Wasteland 2 Catch-All: GOTY edition coming soon

After reading the link, one big plus to having Obsidian involved: they've shipped lots of games like this, so the tech/engine should be pretty easy, meaning they can put most of the remaining budget toward content.

Could end up being one hell of a big game.

Malor wrote:

You know, it'll be very interesting to see how they manage the money and the bug fixing in these games, because presumably they won't be able to dip into the well twice for the same game. With a publisher, they can go back and say "hey, this is taking longer than we thought, we need more money" and probably get it, but I don't think that'll fly with Kickstarter.

There'll be nobody leaning on them to screw things up, but there'll also be no net to catch them.

Good points for sure, but considering that Double Fine's and inXile's kickstarters both went way over the amount they wanted, I would say that extra money is their "net."

Malor wrote:

You know, it'll be very interesting to see how they manage the money and the bug fixing in these games, because presumably they won't be able to dip into the well twice for the same game. With a publisher, they can go back and say "hey, this is taking longer than we thought, we need more money" and probably get it, but I don't think that'll fly with Kickstarter.

There'll be nobody leaning on them to screw things up, but there'll also be no net to catch them.

I guess theoretically they can take pay cuts to extend their budget, but I doubt that would happen, at least for most of the people involved.

I'm not sure I like involving Obsidian. Maybe it's just being overly pessimistic but it's also not what I donated for. It's kind of weird to change the game plan in the middle of the fund raising period.

garion333 wrote:
Parallax Abstraction wrote:

They just announced that if they hit $2.1M, inXile will be involving Obsidian Entertainment and Chris Avellone as co-developers of the project. GIVE THEM ALL YOUR MONEY!

So then it will be guaranteed to be late and full of bugs?

Well, don't forget that it's the publisher that releases the game

... but you make a point

SixteenBlue wrote:

I'm not sure I like involving Obsidian. Maybe it's just being overly pessimistic but it's also not what I donated for. It's kind of weird to change the game plan in the middle of the fund raising period.

Bolded for emphasis. The solution? Ensure that the Wasteland 2 KS does not reach $2.1 million.

So it'll just be late, then.

SixteenBlue wrote:

I'm not sure I like involving Obsidian. Maybe it's just being overly pessimistic but it's also not what I donated for.

At this point it's a pledge, and you can change the amount, right?

I gave money so that Brian Fargo can make Wasteland 2, not so I can tell him how to make it. How he does it is up to him. If he wants to involve Chris Avellone and (potentially) Tim Cain from Obsidian, that's his call and I'm all for it.

LouZiffer wrote:

I gave money so that Brian Fargo can make Wasteland 2, not so I can tell him how to make it. How he does it is up to him. If he wants to involve Chris Avellone and (potentially) Tim Cain from Obsidian, that's his call and I'm all for it.

+1 - it's a patronage decision. If you're not happy with the artistic direction, now's the time to cut bait. Otherwise, if you want a sure thing, buy the game after the metacritic scores are set in stone. I'm willing to take a chance on this for the possibility of greatness, not the certainty, or even the likelihood.

Also, Obsidian's involvement got me to bump my pledge from $30 to $50

Adding Obsidian to the mix is the kind of push I need to contribute. Despite their flaws, their games are very interesting and a lot of fun. This is something inXile does not have under their belt. Plus, now it's the original Fallout team. Consider me interested. Not entirely concerned with the bugginess. Fallout, Fallout 2, Fallout: New Vegas, and Alpha Protocol were fantastic games and I'm willing to throw some cash their way to get it done.

Tanglebones wrote:
LouZiffer wrote:

I gave money so that Brian Fargo can make Wasteland 2, not so I can tell him how to make it. How he does it is up to him. If he wants to involve Chris Avellone and (potentially) Tim Cain from Obsidian, that's his call and I'm all for it.

+1 - it's a patronage decision. If you're not happy with the artistic direction, now's the time to cut bait. Otherwise, if you want a sure thing, buy the game after the metacritic scores are set in stone. I'm willing to take a chance on this for the possibility of greatness, not the certainty, or even the likelihood.

Also, Obsidian's involvement got me to bump my pledge from $30 to $50 :P

Yeah I can back out and I'm not going to, it just seemed weird.

LouZiffer wrote:

I gave money so that Brian Fargo can make Wasteland 2, not so I can tell him how to make it. How he does it is up to him. If he wants to involve Chris Avellone and (potentially) Tim Cain from Obsidian, that's his call and I'm all for it.

Honestly, with the looseness of Kickstarter's accountability systems, even that isn't set in stone. He could make Tasteland 1: Attack of Delicious Caekes, or make off with the money on his own. Hopefully his desire to keep his reputation and the Kickstarter model going strong will prevent him from doing this.

I hope it's Wasteland II though, and I hope it looks cool enough that I (and a bunch of other people) buy it.

LouZiffer wrote:

I gave money so that Brian Fargo can make Wasteland 2, not so I can tell him how to make it. How he does it is up to him. If he wants to involve Chris Avellone and (potentially) Tim Cain from Obsidian, that's his call and I'm all for it.

Yep.

Squee9 wrote:
LouZiffer wrote:

I gave money so that Brian Fargo can make Wasteland 2, not so I can tell him how to make it. How he does it is up to him. If he wants to involve Chris Avellone and (potentially) Tim Cain from Obsidian, that's his call and I'm all for it.

Honestly, with the looseness of Kickstarter's accountability systems, even that isn't set in stone. He could make Tasteland 1: Attack of Delicious Caekes, or make off with the money on his own. Hopefully his desire to keep his reputation and the Kickstarter model going strong will prevent him from doing this.

I hope it's Wasteland II though, and I hope it looks cool enough that I (and a bunch of other people) buy it.

If the cakes burst like blood sausages, I might still be in for this

SixteenBlue wrote:

Yeah I can back out and I'm not going to, it just seemed weird.

Ditto. I'd pledged $15, and I'm leaving it as is. I just agree that the addition of Obsidian is potentially concerning, considering their reputation for buggy games.

That said, I'm still optimistic, and I want to continue to support this kickstarter game-funding model.

Just finding out about this game. Having only played Jagged Alliance back in the day (and even then I was just a kid with minimum understanding of English), how is this game going to turn out? I remember there was a JA sequel released recently...didn't that fail commercially?

By the way, Brian Fargo clarified a bit about Obsidian's involvement:

Brian Fargo wrote:

Also important to note that their contribution is purely in design. We are doing all the code here.

I don't understand the overwhelming negativity about Obsidian on this forum (please don't try to explain, I've heard it before). But I don't have to, I'm over the wall on this news.

Tannhauser wrote:

By the way, Brian Fargo clarified a bit about Obsidian's involvement:

Brian Fargo wrote:

Also important to note that their contribution is purely in design. We are doing all the code here.

I don't understand the overwhelming negativity about Obsidian on this forum (please don't try to explain, I've heard it before). But I don't have to, I'm over the wall on this news.

On this forum? Believe me, it's everywhere.

I'm in.

Tannhauser wrote:

By the way, Brian Fargo clarified a bit about Obsidian's involvement:

Brian Fargo wrote:

Also important to note that their contribution is purely in design. We are doing all the code here.

I don't understand the overwhelming negativity about Obsidian on this forum (please don't try to explain, I've heard it before). But I don't have to, I'm over the wall on this news.

Wikipedia lists them as having developed these games:
* Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords (2004) (Xbox, PC)
* Neverwinter Nights 2 (2006) (PC, Mac OS X)
* Neverwinter Nights 2: Mask of the Betrayer (2007) (PC)
* Neverwinter Nights 2: Storm of Zehir (2008) (PC)
* Alpha Protocol (2010) (PC, Xbox 360, PlayStation 3)
* Fallout: New Vegas (2010)[8] (Windows, Xbox 360, PlayStation 3)
* Dungeon Siege III (2011)[15] (Windows, Xbox 360, PlayStation 3)

KOTOR2 was savaged for its ending (or lack of? I never played it). I don't remember any bug issues with NWN2. Fallout: NV was very buggy but awesome. AP and DS3 I never played.

LeapingGnome wrote:
Quintin_Stone wrote:

I don't remember any bug issues with NWN2.

NWN2 was full of bugs when it was released and had really bad performance, it could barely run on top end systems at the time with medium-high settings.

It still doesn't run all that well.

LeapingGnome wrote:
Quintin_Stone wrote:

I don't remember any bug issues with NWN2.

NWN2 was full of bugs when it was released and had really bad performance, it could barely run on top end systems at the time with medium-high settings.

SixteenBlue wrote:

I'm not sure I like involving Obsidian. Maybe it's just being overly pessimistic but it's also not what I donated for. It's kind of weird to change the game plan in the middle of the fund raising period.

I agree, I signed up for a Wasteland sequel that talked about bringing back isometric 2D RPGs as a genre, not for an Obsidian game. I am in wait and see mode but I wouldn't call news worth celebrating.

The update that it's purely for design takes away most of my worry. From a game design point of view I was fairly pleased with Fallout NV.

Quintin_Stone wrote:

I don't remember any bug issues with NWN2.

NWN2 was full of bugs when it was released and had really bad performance, it could barely run on top end systems at the time with medium-high settings.

SixteenBlue wrote:

I'm not sure I like involving Obsidian. Maybe it's just being overly pessimistic but it's also not what I donated for. It's kind of weird to change the game plan in the middle of the fund raising period.

I agree, I signed up for a Wasteland sequel that talked about bringing back isometric 2D RPGs as a genre, not for an Obsidian game. I am in wait and see mode but I wouldn't call it news worth celebrating.

Brian Fargo[/url]]
You should try to dig in and get some stories out there. Look at the most recent one with those poor guys at Obsidian. They did Fallout: New Vegas, the ship date got moved up and, who does the QA on a project? The publisher is always in charge of QA. When a project goes out buggy, it’s not the developer. The developer never says, “I refuse to fix the bug,” or, “I don’t know how.” They never do that. It’s the publisher that does the QA, so if a product goes out buggy, it’s not the developer’s fault. So, (Fallout: New Vegas) goes out buggy and they didn’t do the QA, their ship date got moved up and they missed their metacritic rating by one point. Did they get a bonus? No. Do you think that’s fair?

I won't say that Obsidian is totally blameless for bugs in all of their games, but I honestly think the judgement placed on them is overly harsh.

You did ask, but I'm a filthy skimmer.

LouZiffer wrote:

Brian Fargo[/url]]
You should try to dig in and get some stories out there. Look at the most recent one with those poor guys at Obsidian. They did Fallout: New Vegas, the ship date got moved up and, who does the QA on a project? The publisher is always in charge of QA. When a project goes out buggy, it’s not the developer. The developer never says, “I refuse to fix the bug,” or, “I don’t know how.” They never do that. It’s the publisher that does the QA, so if a product goes out buggy, it’s not the developer’s fault. So, (Fallout: New Vegas) goes out buggy and they didn’t do the QA, their ship date got moved up and they missed their metacritic rating by one point. Did they get a bonus? No. Do you think that’s fair?

I won't say that Obsidian is totally blameless for bugs in all of their games, but I honestly think the judgement placed on them is overly harsh.

That's interesting that the publisher does QA. I would not have thought so.

Quintin_Stone wrote:

KOTOR2 was savaged for its ending (or lack of? I never played it). I don't remember any bug issues with NWN2. Fallout: NV was very buggy but awesome. AP and DS3 I never played.

I asked you not to try to explain. A discussion about Obsidian here is a waste of time, the last time I tried I was unanimously shouted down. Like I said, there is enormous negativity about Obsidian in these forums that I don't understand. I don't want to get into it.

Regardless, it looks like it has been a jolt to the Kickstarter. It shot up almost $10,000 in an hour after the news broke.
IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/1fQTE.jpg)

Edit: Well then, skimmers reap their own reward.

For a lot of dev houses, I think that's true. But for a lot of the developers that have a reputation for not releasing buggy crap(Valve, Bungie and Blizzard come to mind here) it's considered an absolutely invaluable part of their company.

The problem is that a lot of upper managers in a lot of industries seem to consider permanent software QA staff to be a net loss, so they'll allocate funds for more artists or developers and outsource QA. Which is the wrong way of doing it, because good, on-site QA staff help considerably, especially with getting a reputation for polished games.

And that explains why a lot of min-boggling bugs and lack of features or such not working get shipped - publishers hiring the cheapest people possible who probably have no idea what their job is.

I think it is hilarious that the guy can say with a straight face that bugs are not the fault of the developer. I guess someone snuck into their office and coded them in without dev knowing.