Obesity Catch-All

Nevin73 wrote:

I'm reminded of the story I read some time ago about a mother on food stamps and the looks of disgust she would get when she bought things like fresh strawberries as opposed to Twinkies. The thought process (I guess) was that people on welfare don't deserve luxury foods like fresh fruit. That's a really f*cked up mentality.

Strawberries are an excellent source of fiber.

Seriously though, I think my reaction to a mom buying her kids fresh fruit with food stamps would be a sincere smile and thumbs up. Folks who take responsibility for their health through food should be encouraged, not scorned.

That and I would much rather pay taxes for strawberries than have to pay for their ER trips for type 2 diabetes related emergencies.

People on Food Stamps get contempt, no matter what they do. If they get cheap junk food, they're wasting taxpayer dollars on getting their family fat and unhealthy. If they get healthy produce, they're spending too much of our taxpayer dollars on things we should budget for, but don't.

The irony is that even people who've been on food stamps turn around and express contempt on those who use food stamps.

My mom, for example, had to rely on welfare and food stamps for a couple years when my sisters and I were children and our dad had bailed on us. Fast forward to last year, and mom is railing against people on welfare and how they should have to submit to random drug tests. When I pointed out how that would have been an impossible requirement for her to meet while holding down a job and raising three kids on her own, then it turned into the "but the good people aren't the problem, all those welfare queens are" and I just facepalmed.

You do me a favor, and explain lower class conservatism, especially farmers. This is a mystery that I have been grappling with for close to 15 years now.

If I could explain it, I'd have converted my family to liberals -- or at least moderates -- by now.

sometimesdee wrote:

People on Food Stamps get contempt, no matter what they do.

Depends on location. In Detroit there is largely no negative connotation to being on food stamps because it is so common.

KingGorilla wrote:

You do me a favor, and explain lower class conservatism, especially farmers. This is a mystery that I have been grappling with for close to 15 years now.

Religion. Family values. Guns. Disagreement with wealth distribution. And I'm not sure why you would call farmers lower class. A lot of farmers around these parts make some damn good money - easily enough to be middle or upper-middle class.

Family farmers sir, not factory owners who happen to produce corn and beef.

cheeba, what part of Northern Michigan are you in? I ask because if it's anywhere near the Traverse City area, and those farmers grow cherries/hops/apples/grapes, I'm probably aware of them.

Vintners do tend to be wealthier than others; usually because it's fairly common practice for wealthy CEOs or Chicagoans (Madonna's family has a vineyard there; so does Larry Bell's family. And Mario Batali's got money all over that part of the state) to plunk down a couple million on some young vines during their retirement and coax them into some admittedly great wines. But the cherry/apple farmers are one bad season away from starvation.

KingGorilla wrote:

Family farmers sir, not factory owners who happen to produce corn and beef.

Yes, family farmers.

Seth wrote:

cheeba, what part of Northern Michigan are you in? I ask because if it's anywhere near the Traverse City area, and those farmers grow cherries/hops/apples/grapes, I'm probably aware of them.

Let's just say I'm very close to Short's :). And yeah, wine is becoming big here. The farmers close to me are primarily fruit, though there are a few old dairy farms as well. And they did have one bad season - last year was absolutely disastrous to their crops. We had a week of like 80 degrees in late March and then it went back to normal freezing, which killed something like 90% or more of the cherry crop and a large portion of the apples (and apples, specifically honeycrisp, are quickly becoming the cash cow). Granted, there aren't that many big farms around anymore, but the ones I know in the area (and I've done features on a couple of them) are still doing well, especially this year. Many of the farms no longer do dairy, but went to corn to make their money off the ethanol subsidies.

Right, that's what I'm referring to. 2012 was a such disastrous growing season that it very nearly broke some farmers up there -- and it was the second one in a decade, more than most of those old men have seen ever. One more season like that will put a lot of the people who rely on flowering trees (apples and cherries) into bankruptcy. We're lucky this year has been so kind to apples and cherries.

(side note...2012 was the best year Michigan's ever had for grapes. Hold on to your 2012 vintages, they're worth savoring).

Why do you think there's so many more hop farms up there? Much more resistant to unpredictable springs.

cheeba wrote:
KingGorilla wrote:

Family farmers sir, not factory owners who happen to produce corn and beef.

Yes, family farmers.

And Ford is a family owned business.

I forgot this is Politics, Controversy, and Pedants.

Small, sub 20 square mile, farms. Whom you can see on TV recording and film, lamenting that their land has been bought out by say ADM, but fiercely voting conservative, voting in the representatives that put the policies and economics in place necessitating that they sell off. It is a difficult matter, because the small farmer is nearly extinct. I believe there are more Great White sharks off the coast of the US,in fact.

There seem to be more than few of those:

IMAGE(http://www.inspiretheentrepreneur.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/shark-tank-sharks.jpg)

But I wonder why these small-time farmers would be so conservative. Conservatives are for cutting Food Stamps SNAP, which means fewer families would be able to afford the fruits of the farmers' labor.

KingGorilla wrote:
cheeba wrote:
KingGorilla wrote:

Family farmers sir, not factory owners who happen to produce corn and beef.

Yes, family farmers.

And Ford is a family owned business.

I forgot this is Politics, Controversy, and Pedants.

Small, sub 20 square mile, farms.

How many of those still exist?

Forgive my moment of pendency: I had no idea, so I went looking. The national average size for a farm is 446 acres. The USDA defines a "small farm" as one with less than $250K sales; small farms make up 91 percent of all farms. A large majority of those have sales of less than $10K. On the other hand, 63 percent of all ag products sold come from what the USDA categorizes as large family farms, which would probably be closer to your family-owned factory-farm, though I haven't looked into it.

As for the politics, from my limited exposure, the idea of the American yeoman farmer transitions quite well to the libertarian/self-sufficiency mindset (and 57% of farms are lifestyle or retirement farms). Add a rural mistrust of urban politics. And, of course, farmers have been more likely to be conservative-in-a-literal sense for millennia.

KingGorilla wrote:

Small, sub 20 square mile, farms. Whom you can see on TV recording and film, lamenting that their land has been bought out by say ADM, but fiercely voting conservative, voting in the representatives that put the policies and economics in place necessitating that they sell off. It is a difficult matter, because the small farmer is nearly extinct. I believe there are more Great White sharks off the coast of the US,in fact.

It wasn't an attempt to be pedantic. I'm saying there are a good bunch of farms in my area that are small family farms (I don't know of any that are anywhere close to 20 square miles) and doing very well, or at least they're well on their way to recovery after last year's disastrous season. Of course that's just my area, but we're still left with all those other reasons I listed to answer your question.

sometimesdee wrote:

But I wonder why these small-time farmers would be so conservative. Conservatives are for cutting Food Stamps SNAP, which means fewer families would be able to afford the fruits of the farmers' labor.

How many people on food stamps actually eat fruit and vegetables, though? I would wager a very large portion of them don't eat very healthy.

Seth wrote:

Why do you think there's so many more hop farms up there? Much more resistant to unpredictable springs.

I'd think it's mostly the rise of the local beer industry. We've really got some great brewers up here :).

cheeba wrote:
sometimesdee wrote:

But I wonder why these small-time farmers would be so conservative. Conservatives are for cutting Food Stamps SNAP, which means fewer families would be able to afford the fruits of the farmers' labor.

How many people on food stamps actually eat fruit and vegetables, though? I would wager a very large portion of them don't eat very healthy.

More than you'd think. For example, here's an article about hipsters buying organic produce with their SNAP benefits. New York City lets you use SNAP at the Farmer's Markets.

cheeba wrote:

(I don't know of any that are anywhere close to 20 square miles)

It's a very, very pedantic point, but 20 square miles is 12800 acres. 96% of farms have less than 2000 acres. The distinction by income is probably more relevant, especially in this era of shrinking farmland.

Gremlin wrote:
cheeba wrote:

(I don't know of any that are anywhere close to 20 square miles)

It's a very, very pedantic point, but 20 square miles is 12800 acres. 96% of farms have less than 2000 acres. The distinction by income is probably more relevant, especially in this era of shrinking farmland.

So guess who added a zero into the conversion calculator? I am firing my assistant.

In the spirit of Halloween, I demand this necro'ed thread to arise! Not sure how many people saw this story, but a North Dakota woman made national news when she said she was refusing to give overweight trick or treaters candy. Instead they get a letter to take home to their parents strongly advising mom and dad to put the kid on a diet. Quote:

"Giving candy to an obese child is like giving a cigarette to a person with emphysema," Smith says. "It is giving a drink to an alcoholic. It is giving heroin to a drug addict."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...

On one hand it's a super witchy move and this woman could have easily just handed out fruit or non-food items. But there's a part of me who thinks that she's not completely out of line. I'm saying that as a former fat kid who grew up in a household where we ate lots of Southern comfort food and a grandma who regularly showered me with cookies and candy. It really took some of the other adults in my life to take me aside and give me pointers on how to eat better and exercise more.

jdzappa wrote:

In the spirit of Halloween, I demand this necro'ed thread to arise! Not sure how many people saw this story, but a North Dakota woman made national news when she said she was refusing to give overweight trick or treaters candy. Instead they get a letter to take home to their parents strongly advising mom and dad to put the kid on a diet. Quote:

"Giving candy to an obese child is like giving a cigarette to a person with emphysema," Smith says. "It is giving a drink to an alcoholic. It is giving heroin to a drug addict."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...

On one hand it's a super witchy move and this woman could have easily just handed out fruit or non-food items. But there's a part of me who thinks that she's not completely out of line. I'm saying that as a former fat kid who grew up in a household where we ate lots of Southern comfort food and a grandma who regularly showered me with cookies and candy. It really took some of the other adults in my life to take me aside and give me pointers on how to eat better and exercise more.

Just for clarity's sake, the above quote is from an interviewed cardiologist, not the lady handing out the letters.

The letter to parents of possibly obese children wrote:

"Your child is, in my opinion, moderately obese and should not be consuming sugar and treats to the extent of some children this Halloween season."

In my opinion, she's not a doctor and has no understanding of whether this is the biggest issue in that kids' life. Or even if they *are* obese.

Robear wrote:

In my opinion, she's not a doctor and has no understanding of whether this is the biggest issue in that kids' life. Or even if they *are* obese.

I think you can easily tell if someone is obese.

It would have made more sense not to hand out any candy this year.

It's not like a pure-sugar-food is somehow more healthy to skinny kids. She's enabling the journey while punishing the destination.

It's super passive-aggressive without being truly helpful. Being legendarily passive-aggressive myself, I can feel the force being strong with this one. Would have been better to give out treats that are kid-approved but low-sugar.

Yeah, it's basically "If I think your kid's fat, he/she isn't getting candy from me." Which is all sorts of f*cked up.

Seth wrote:

It would have made more sense not to hand out any candy this year.

It's not like a pure-sugar-food is somehow more healthy to skinny kids. She's enabling the journey while punishing the destination.

This is pretty much where I stand on this. I know I am likely to get egged over this, but I am all about handing out floss and NFL Play 60 literature.

The title of this thread doesn't even really make sense. Of course obesity is a problem. When I look around at the guys at work, they all look like they are in their third trimester. It is disgusting and if I were them and looked in the mirror, I would retch. And it is like this everywhere around here. I think my state is in the top 5 of all states for obesity with something like 60% of the population being overweight and 35% being obese. That's insane.

Wow, Zane, just wow. I think your attitude is pretty disgusting. If I were you and looked at that post, I would retch. Do you have any idea how much self-loathing people struggling with their weight have, without getting it from people like you as well?

You can call obesity a problem without being a jerk about it.

sometimesdee wrote:

Wow, Zane, just wow. I think your attitude is pretty disgusting. If I were you and looked at that post, I would retch. Do you have any idea how much self-loathing people struggling with their weight have, without getting it from people like you as well?

It is inexcusable. I struggle with health issues and depression that make things difficult for me, but I still stay in decent shape. There is no reason for what they have allowed their bodies to become. It is simply them gorging themselves daily like pigs at a trough. And they need to know that. If I can stay in good shape in spite of physical and mental difficulties, why can't they?