Obesity Catch-All

Might as well, Dee. This thread has deviated so much from the original concept, that I'm just going to rename it to a Catch All.

sometimesdee wrote:

Do you really have to choose between gaming and exercise? I played Dance Dance Revolution pretty frequently until I got downstairs neighbors.

Personal anecdote: For the winter months, I set my bike up on a trainer. Stationary cycling is quite possibly the most boring thing a person can do. The only way I can get through it, is by playing a game (specifically, some manner of action-heavy wave-based MP survival--RPGs don't work).

So...No. I actually toyed with the idea, at the height of my FFXI madness, of constructing a sort of keyboard and controller tray that I could fit over my handlebars. I'd say games and exercise go together like...peanut butter and banana. They don't sound like they should work together, but once you try them, you think "Oh. This actually makes a lot of sense."

Robert Herjavec wrote:

Gamers are lazy... they don't want to exercise.

Hehe. What better to see when I'm up early having breakfast before meeting my running group for a long run at 5:30am? I have no idea who these shark people are, but I'm going to guess their view of "some very specific demographic group are gamers" is shaped by being from an older generation? I really believe we're heading more and more towards a place where that question will seem as ridiculous as:

Robert Herjavec might have wrote:

Readers are lazy... they don't want to exercise.

It already is, IMO. Most people game to one degree or another. Mafia Wars, FarmVile, and Angry Birds have seen to that!

Touch screen shenanigans!

This "obesity epidemic" does not seem to be limited to humans; apparently, all sorts of mammals have been getting heavier over the years. So is it really all about willpower? Even lab rats! Every single minute of their lives, and every single thing they eat is strictly controlled. They too, have been getting fatter over the past few decades. What gives?

sometimesdee wrote:

This "obesity epidemic" does not seem to be limited to humans; apparently, all sorts of mammals have been getting heavier over the years. So is it really all about willpower? Even lab rats! Every single minute of their lives, and every single thing they eat is strictly controlled. They too, have been getting fatter over the past few decades. What gives?

Unconscious sense of coming ice age when we screw up the planet's environment, storing fat now while they can?

Yes, I'm basically saying it's global warming.

sometimesdee wrote:

This "obesity epidemic" does not seem to be limited to humans; apparently, all sorts of mammals have been getting heavier over the years. So is it really all about willpower? Even lab rats! Every single minute of their lives, and every single thing they eat is strictly controlled. They too, have been getting fatter over the past few decades. What gives?

Thanks, Obama!

I feel like I wrote this here before, but I can't find it. One of the biggest 180s I've had philosophically is the relationship between obesity and willpower. I now strongly believe that the research shows 1) obesity is an illness (or at the VERY least, a symptom of an illness) and 2) we should be treating it as such. The fat shaming and calories in / calories out discussions are entirely pointless, and frankly some of the posts I made 3-5 years ago nauseate me now. I was wholly wrong, and I apologize to this community for what I said regarding this topic.

Seth wrote:

I feel like I wrote this here before, but I can't find it. One of the biggest 180s I've had philosophically is the relationship between obesity and willpower. I now strongly believe that the research shows 1) obesity is an illness (or at the VERY least, a symptom of an illness) and 2) we should be treating it as such. The fat shaming and calories in / calories out discussions are entirely pointless, and frankly some of the posts I made 3-5 years ago nauseate me now. I was wholly wrong, and I apologize to this community for what I said regarding this topic.

I hear what you're saying, Seth, but I think that there's a middle ground.

Obesity *is* a matter of willpower. If you eat less tomorrow than you eat today, your rate of change in weight will trend downwards.

However, willpower is an equation with many, many variables feeding into it, and the threshold of willpower required to control one's weight seems to be rising.

I've had a similar turnaround to you, but for me, it's just about moving the goalposts. The argument used to be about the physicality of calories in/calories out, now it's about the mental game of motivation that drives the calories in/calories out equation.

Nevermind. Don't need the shame today.

Demosthenes wrote:

Unconscious sense of coming ice age when we screw up the planet's environment, storing fat now while they can?

Yes, I'm basically saying it's global warming. :lol:

I thought of that too.

One thing I am noticing where I work is how the availability of good nutrition and convenient exercise options really lower the willpower bar.

We replaced our normal food services company with one that has a full time nutritionist on staff to help formulate nutritious meals, incorporated produce from local farmers markets, and started using a lot more fresh ingredients. The gym we have on campus is world class with very qualified trainers and group fitness classes as well as sports leagues are free for all employees. Folks are encouraged to use the services and given a great deal of latitude in their scheduling so they can take time in the middle of the day to get in an hour of stress relief if they want. It also helps that I live in an area where a 30 minute daily commute is considered an intolerable hardship.

I have noticed some new hires make some amazing transformations as a result. I have also noticed that the majority of folks don't avail themselves of the services for their own reasons.

I don't know what the answer is, but I have seen change happen so I know it is possible.

Yup. Your employer has engaged Easy Mode. I wish more would do so.

sometimesdee wrote:

Yup. Your employer has engaged Easy Mode. I wish more would do so.

Even aggressive easy mode.

Tracy, the woman who runs the gym, is constantly out gently persuading the smokers to try a spin class or join the volleyball league. She isn't mean about it, but she is always out there fighting the good fight.

I realize that I am not responsible for other people's life choices, but it really strikes me as a waste that more folks don't take advantage of these amazing benefits.

What socialist, nanny state nightmare of a company do you work for?

Seth wrote:

I feel like I wrote this here before, but I can't find it.

You wrote this--it was really early in the thread, which maybe is why it was hard to find.

No apologies necessary, no need to worry about old posts. At least in my opinion. : D

OG_slinger wrote:

What socialist, nanny state nightmare of a company do you work for? :-)

One that gives us 40 hours/year to volunteer doing trail maintenance in North Carolina State Parks too. I have spent three workdays swinging a Pulaski and pulling a Council Rake (pretty dirty work, but it sounds even dirtier than it is ).

It does, however, do stuff that isn't so healthy too though. We get free chips and trail mix on Monday afternoons, 25cent sodas every day, bagels and cream cheese on Friday mornings, free craft beer and wine on Friday afternoons, sheet cake at least once per month (we joke that this is how we don't work at Aperture Science), and bbq or Chinese food about twice a month.

And folks still have the audacity to complain....

Thought I'd share this publication:
How the world could better fight obesity @ McKinsey Global Institute

It would seem that nearly one third of the world's population is obese, which is more than twice the number of people who are undernourished. The cost of obesity is estimated at 2 trillion dollars.
My expert opinion? Wow, that's a lot of money.

Eleima wrote:

Thought I'd share this publication:
How the world could better fight obesity @ McKinsey Global Institute

It would seem that nearly one third of the world's population is obese, which is more than twice the number of people who are undernourished. The cost of obesity is estimated at 2 trillion dollars.
My expert opinion? Wow, that's a lot of money food.

Yeah...

Eleima wrote:

Thought I'd share this publication:
How the world could better fight obesity @ McKinsey Global Institute

It would seem that nearly one third of the world's population is obese, which is more than twice the number of people who are undernourished. The cost of obesity is estimated at 2 trillion dollars.
My expert opinion? Wow, that's a lot of money.

The entire point of that article is that this is an extremely complicated, far reaching problem that cannot be solved by any single group, nor is it a problem we even understand very well...but that graph just screams to be misinterpreted that portion control is the cheapest and most efficient way of solving the problem. Blah.

Lets first define what obese is without using the horribly draconian BMI index.

fangblackbone wrote:

Lets first define what obese is without using the horribly draconian BMI index.

I dunno, BMI seems like a fine rule of thumb. We all know now that there's a small percentage of people who qualify as obese but with healthy internal systems, and even smaller percentage of people who are so in shape they qualify as obese, but not many people are Hafþór Júlíus Björnsson.

I'd say it's about as helpful as taking one's temperature (which is also draconian and often wrong) for a quick initial test that could be verified by more in depth tests.

It's also important to point out that being obese often means being malnourished. The world is hurting because the food supply is so processed.

It doesn't take a whole lot of muscle mass to throw the entire BMI thing off-kilter. It really is just a rule of thumb, and far less useful than a temperature reading, which itself isn't that useful.

Anyone who lifts or seriously engages in any strength-related sport will not read right on the BMI thing once they're off an intense athletic program and put on a normal amount of body fat. Muscle is really heavy.

LarryC wrote:

Anyone who lifts or seriously engages in any strength-related sport will not read right on the BMI thing once they're off an intense athletic program and put on a normal amount of body fat. Muscle is really heavy.

Well that does describe most citizens of the US....Seriously it is a good guideline for 90% of people. However like any guideline it needs to be used with other guidelines for each person - most helpfully in consultation with a health professional.

*edit*

And I guess the question for me is what is a better guideline? Keeping in mind wanting a guideline that works for all people, with all body types, and doesn't require any explanation with trained individuals.

If there is one out there, lets use it!

farley3k wrote:
LarryC wrote:

Anyone who lifts or seriously engages in any strength-related sport will not read right on the BMI thing once they're off an intense athletic program and put on a normal amount of body fat. Muscle is really heavy.

Well that does describe most citizens of the US....Seriously it is a good guideline for 90% of people. However like any guideline it needs to be used with other guidelines for each person - most helpfully in consultation with a health professional.

*edit*

And I guess the question for me is what is a better guideline? Keeping in mind wanting a guideline that works for all people, with all body types, and doesn't require any explanation with trained individuals.

If there is one out there, lets use it!

Is body fat % a better way to look at this?

Fitness is the most predictive of overall health. If you're obese on BMI but you can run a competitive Ironman without redlining at any time, you're probably pretty okay.

LarryC wrote:

Fitness is the most predictive of overall health. If you're obese on BMI but you can run a competitive Ironman without redlining at any time, you're probably pretty okay.

That's a pretty serious annual physical...

LarryC wrote:

Fitness is the most predictive of overall health. If you're obese on BMI but you can run a competitive Ironman without redlining at any time, you're probably pretty okay.

So what web site do I go to so I can find my "fitness"? Because that is what people want when using the BMI, a place they can just go look up their level. If knowing my "fitness" requires me to talk to my doctor and do any kind of tests, well then I don't see how it is better than the BMI.