Persona 5

Ok. Not sure I'm all that happy, post fourth palace with...

Spoiler:

the gang all 'helpfully' trying to make futaba'normal' and curing her introversion by coercing her into situations that are clearly making her uncomfortable. And WORSE, that this is actually looking like it'll end up *working*.

Then again, I'm not at the end of that little side plot yet so maybe she'll still tell the rest of these jerks to bugger off and leave her to figure things out at her own pace

Spoiler:

As an introvert myself I didn't mind it. Her problem wasn't being introverted, it was that she had literally been shut in her room for a year. They're pretty understanding too; they realize she can interact with the group just fine and her only real problem is getting anxious in crowds.

pyxistyx wrote:

Ok. Not sure I'm all that happy, post fourth palace with...

Spoiler:

the gang all 'helpfully' trying to make futaba'normal' and curing her introversion by coercing her into situations that are clearly making her uncomfortable. And WORSE, that this is actually looking like it'll end up *working*.

Then again, I'm not at the end of that little side plot yet so maybe she'll still tell the rest of these jerks to bugger off and leave her to figure things out at her own pace

Spoiler:

It's not really introversion so much as it's crippling social anxiety and depression.

Haven't ready any of the thread yet. Will do so later. Picked up this game as my first Persona game.

I'm really enjoying the stylishness of it. It's a lot of fun seeing so many familiar places "gamified" and being able to navigate a bit by knowing how stuff works in real-life Japan. My wife is loving it, and has forbidden me from playing without her so she can see the story unfold.

I really, really despise the movement controls. The into/out-of hiding mechanism feels janky as hell, and I nearly an hour of game-play last night due to coming out of hiding without intending to. I also hate that: let me save where I want to, dammit. Making me wait extended periods of time to save it making me crazy. Sometimes I don't have time to wait for 20 minutes of exposition and scene switches before I can save. Grarh!

Anyway, I think I'm going to enjoy the game once I get over my dislike for a bit of the jank. Very cool styling, and interesting combat mechanic.

Coldstream wrote:

I really, really despise the movement controls. The into/out-of hiding mechanism feels janky as hell, and I nearly an hour of game-play last night due to coming out of hiding without intending to.

I had trouble with it for the first palace. By the 2nd, it was pretty natural. They're not perfect, but they work fine with a bit of practice.

Also, it's worth noting that you don't actually have to be out of an enemy's line of sight to be hidden. You just need to be in cover, even if they're looking straight at you. So there's not frantic rush to get into better position if an enemy is fast approaching. Just make sure you don't leave cover until they look away.

Coldstream wrote:

I also hate that: let me save where I want to, dammit. Making me wait extended periods of time to save it making me crazy. Sometimes I don't have time to wait for 20 minutes of exposition and scene switches before I can save. Grarh!

Are you on PS4? Sleep mode preserves the game state perfectly well. If you need to leave 10 or 20 minutes in, you should just be able to go into rest mode and pick right back up where you left off. If you're losing progress because you're dying, that's another story.

Dove pretty deep into palace 6 today, after a lot of confidant stuff in early Nov.

I reached a day where no confidants were available for rank up that afternoon, so I figured it was time to do the palace. Hah. I guess that means I might be on track for maxing the confidants.

Demyx wrote:
Spoiler:

As an introvert myself I didn't mind it. Her problem wasn't being introverted, it was that she had literally been shut in her room for a year. They're pretty understanding too; they realize she can interact with the group just fine and her only real problem is getting anxious in crowds.

Yeah, as I kept playing I feel like they clarified that a lot more by the time you get to the beach. I tend to have a gut reaction to that kind of thing because people have tried that "force them into a situation in order to break out of their shell, no really it'll be good for them" stuff on me in the past and it never ends well.

Of course at that point you also get another classy encounter with the 'gay pervert' characters so I was too busy face-palming myself out of the universe to follow the story properly

Oh well, back to school and towards palace 5 then...

Talking it over with my friend, I think one of my problems with Persona 5's characterization is that you're going to do the plot thing regardless of how stupid it is, and your "choices" are basically three different tones you can take.

And these kids, being idiot kids that they are, do a LOT of stupid things. On top of that there are things that are glaringly obvious to us as players (because we know it's a video game and also because they're just straight-up glaringly obvious) that I'd love to tell them not to do, but they do them anyway because that's how the plot goes. So the illusion of control is shattered for me and at that point they may as well just make it an true ensemble piece, remove the idea of a main character and voice everyone as distinct personalities I can like or dislike.

This was less of a problem in Persona 4 because there were less questionable actions in Persona 4. I regretted that I couldn't tell Yoske to go pound sand instead of participating in that stupid, stupid beach scene and there were some questionable bits on a few social links, sure. But overall you went into the TV worlds to save people who were going to die otherwise. There isn't much moral grey area in that, it's fine.

Meanwhile Persona 5 is hamstrung both by its setup, where we aren't really saving lives but rather punishing evildoers (with some exceptions) and by it wanting to be a heist film, with all the hidden knowledge that's required for it to be a heist film. Except I'm playing the main character so hidden information from "me" that "I'm" involved in is just frustrating.

I dunno, kinda ranty but I'll leave it here.

Dyni wrote:

Are you on PS4? Sleep mode preserves the game state perfectly well. If you need to leave 10 or 20 minutes in, you should just be able to go into rest mode and pick right back up where you left off. If you're losing progress because you're dying, that's another story.

Sleep mode is great if you're only playing one game, but isn't a viable option if you're playing multiple titles as I tend to do. My main objection is that there is just a lot of content (usually exposition) between save opportunities. Granted, I just finished Kamoshida's palace, so I'm still at the beginning of the game. Perhaps it opens up a bit more soon. I just find it frustrating that I think "ok, I'll just save at the end of this day" and then get auto-advanced to the next day or some other situation where saving is forbidden. I think the rule should be that a game should either let you save at-will, or have an auto-save during scene-transitions.

Still, the game is entertaining and has really involved my wife, so these are annoyances rather than show-stoppers. Looking forward to seeing what is next.

Well, Palace 6 changes things up...

Spoiler:

When you get to the treasure, then meet up after, Akechi decides that you have to wait until the final possible day to send the calling card, to put the most pressure on the palace owner.

Kind of makes you wonder why they didn't just go with that same story bit for all the other palaces? Then you would always have Futaba asleep for 2 days instead of possibly for 3 weeks like some of us had. Or Kamoshida absent from school for a week or two waiting on the board meeting. Just eliminate all that nonsense and all those "did we succeed or not?" text chat messages after you had gathered a treasure early.

I suspect this means I'm about to catch up with the game intro, so they're forcing the date to match up? We'll see.

Finishing up a week of other tasks to get to Nov 18th, and maybe will try to finish palace 6 tonight.

Coldstream wrote:
Dyni wrote:

Are you on PS4? Sleep mode preserves the game state perfectly well. If you need to leave 10 or 20 minutes in, you should just be able to go into rest mode and pick right back up where you left off. If you're losing progress because you're dying, that's another story.

Sleep mode is great if you're only playing one game, but isn't a viable option if you're playing multiple titles as I tend to do.

Gotcha. Persona has been locked in my PS4 since purchase, so I can't relate

To address your next comment, the game does indeed open up soon. There will still be moments of prolonged exposition, but there will be quite a bit of time to make decisions on how to spend your time, and you can save liberally during those moments.

Stele wrote:

Well, Palace 6 changes things up...

Spoiler:

When you get to the treasure, then meet up after, Akechi decides that you have to wait until the final possible day to send the calling card, to put the most pressure on the palace owner.

Kind of makes you wonder why they didn't just go with that same story bit for all the other palaces? Then you would always have Futaba asleep for 2 days instead of possibly for 3 weeks like some of us had. Or Kamoshida absent from school for a week or two waiting on the board meeting. Just eliminate all that nonsense and all those "did we succeed or not?" text chat messages after you had gathered a treasure early.

I suspect this means I'm about to catch up with the game intro, so they're forcing the date to match up? We'll see.

Finishing up a week of other tasks to get to Nov 18th, and maybe will try to finish palace 6 tonight.

I was actually coming here to ask if something like that is going to happen. Thanks!

pyxistyx wrote:
Demyx wrote:
Spoiler:

As an introvert myself I didn't mind it. Her problem wasn't being introverted, it was that she had literally been shut in her room for a year. They're pretty understanding too; they realize she can interact with the group just fine and her only real problem is getting anxious in crowds.

Yeah, as I kept playing I feel like they clarified that a lot more by the time you get to the beach. I tend to have a gut reaction to that kind of thing because people have tried that "force them into a situation in order to break out of their shell, no really it'll be good for them" stuff on me in the past and it never ends well.

Of course at that point you also get another classy encounter with the 'gay pervert' characters so I was too busy face-palming myself out of the universe to follow the story properly

Oh well, back to school and towards palace 5 then...

Spoiler:

Yeah the classy encounter really bothered me the second time around. I think it'll get exponentially worse if they show up again.

On the topic of 'breaking you out of your shell'. I think one can chalk this up to idiot kids being idiot kids. I actually found this behavior to be very natural for a group of kids. Things did help that Futaba seemed to be game. I also think the group's prodding would have been immediately stopped by Sojiro if she wasn't.

If Futaba wasn't willing to play ball & Sojiro was oblivious, I actually wouldn't be surprised if the game played it out and let things fall apart (though she probably wouldn't be a main character).

.

Spoiler:

Futaba wanted to stop being a shut in, enough that she trusted the Phantom Thieves with stealing her heart, so it makes sense she wouldn't have a problem with them prodding her to go to the beach, etc.

And yeah the return of the offensive stereotypes was awful and put a damper on what was a pretty fun scene otherwise (Futaba trying to steal the lobsters from Yusuke was so cute).

Major spoiler thoughts (halfway through Palace 7)

Spoiler:

- I compared Akechi to Adachi in a previous post but I wasn't expecting him to have a near identical crazy face after being caught. I really hope if they make a P6 it doesn't have yet another near-identical evil detective character.
- That being said, I liked that the suspense was not about who was the traitor -- which was pretty obvious at that point -- but rather how they got out of the situation. The solution was kind of contrived and wouldn't really work (like... why would they let Joker have his phone in the interrogation room?) but whatever.
- I liked the group's reactions to the ongoing Phantom Thief news stories capped off with Ryuji's smile
- Minutes after the group points out yet again that it's extremely important that Joker can't be recognized in public, he runs right up to Shido and lets him see his face.
- The imagery of the cruise ship sailing through the flooded city was a solid if unsubtle metaphor. I liked the character's rage at the implications of what's going on in Shido's head.
- Mouse puzzles are mildly irritating but not as bad as some of the Palace 5 stuff. This is one long dungeon though.
- None of the characters realize what "cleaner" means in that context but it's pretty obvious who you're gonna have to fight near the end of this dungeon :p

I so want to click that spoiler.

Should finish palace 6 tonight.

I had a night with absolutely nothing to do again, with all stats maxed and no confidants available. So I went fishing.

Looks like it would take several trips to build up to a good rod and better bait to actually catch the Guardian for the trophy. Not sure I have it in me.

Starting Palace 5, all stats to 4, and got a couple confidants up to rank 9 at the end of September.

I find myself enjoying Mementos more than I thought I would. The rhythm of filling in the map and clearing enemies is comforting, and feels less stressful than the full Palaces. Now I wonder if I'd enjoy some of the more dungeon-crawly entries in the SMT series.

Have you played Persona 3 or 4? The dungeons in those are more like Mementos than P5's Palaces.

Demyx wrote:

Have you played Persona 3 or 4? The dungeons in those are more like Mementos than P5's Palaces.

I appreciate that they basically lifted Tartarus from P3 to add as a side activity and that the actual mandatory dungeons have a lot more going on in them. For me P4's dungeons occupy a slightly unsatisfying middle ground between the unassuming random halls of Tartarus and the bespoke elements of P5's Palaces.

I generally enjoy Mementos but I would enjoy it more if it had a jukebox feature to switch out the dreary music. And maybe if it had a little more variance in visuals.

[whispers "Strange Journey"]

ClockworkHouse wrote:

[whispers "Strange Journey"]

You're just trying to trap people in endless conveyor belt and teleporter mazes. I'm onto you!

ClockworkHouse wrote:

[whispers "Strange Journey"]

I was going to go there but it's become quite pricey and I am not giving up my copy any time soon.

Demyx wrote:

I generally enjoy Mementos but I would enjoy it more if it had a jukebox feature to switch out the dreary music. And maybe if it had a little more variance in visuals.

Good point about the music. It's definitely one of the weaker tracks.

Stele wrote:

I so want to click that spoiler.

Should finish palace 6 tonight.

I had a night with absolutely nothing to do again, with all stats maxed and no confidants available. So I went fishing.

Looks like it would take several trips to build up to a good rod and better bait to actually catch the Guardian for the trophy. Not sure I have it in me.

Probably NG+ for the most part, but you can go to the gym as well. The gym raises your HP/SP independent of your level each time you go.

Regarding a certain Confidant ability of Ryuji's:

Spoiler:

I have come to loathe Insta-kill. Was grinding through the third palace (mostly for yen), and keep running into it now. While I suppose it may be an indicator that I'm overleveled for certain enemies, the go-around is just to catch a particularly strong group by not ambushing them, and then working off the Suspicion level. It's quite frustrating. Currently farming the Oni/Raksasha battles, and may be done with that palace for now.

imbiginjapan wrote:
ClockworkHouse wrote:

[whispers "Strange Journey"]

I was going to go there but it's become quite pricey and I am not giving up my copy any time soon.

[whispers "Deep Strange Journey"]

Demyx wrote:
ClockworkHouse wrote:

[whispers "Strange Journey"]

You're just trying to trap people in endless conveyor belt and teleporter mazes. I'm onto you!

Who me?

ClockworkHouse wrote:
imbiginjapan wrote:
ClockworkHouse wrote:

[whispers "Strange Journey"]

I was going to go there but it's become quite pricey and I am not giving up my copy any time soon.

[whispers "Deep Strange Journey"]

This is getting weirdly sexy.

bnpederson wrote:
Stele wrote:

I so want to click that spoiler.

Should finish palace 6 tonight.

I had a night with absolutely nothing to do again, with all stats maxed and no confidants available. So I went fishing.

Looks like it would take several trips to build up to a good rod and better bait to actually catch the Guardian for the trophy. Not sure I have it in me.

Probably NG+ for the most part, but you can go to the gym as well. The gym raises your HP/SP independent of your level each time you go.

Or you can pray to the shrine. If you missed it like I did, you can read a book about it (available 9/1).

No need for shrine when Fortune does a shrine effect (affinity reading) that doesn't cause time to pass.