Dealing with Divorce Catch-All

clover wrote:
Clover, my friend is actually an acquisition lawyer in Paris, and I'm officially a resident in another state, and commute to Paris on weekend for work. Yeah, I know, nothing's simple here. I did have an idea though. The notary you drew up our marriage contract, he probably knows someone, so I'll ask him as soon as possible.

Anything that keeps you out of the phone book lottery... that sounds like a solid lead.

And no, you can't insulate your kids from the sadness. They know. But they already knew something was wrong, so now you can rest a little easier knowing that you're doing something to move the situation forward.

Looking back, it's bizarre to recognize that I did as a kid in the third grade. I remember this is when I got super scared of the really high/thin window to my bedroom and aliens coming to kidnap me. That fear did not last when we moved to West Chester and got into the apartment, even when there was much larger windows.

Rallick wrote:
Eleima wrote:

Ah well, on the bright side, my mother is already trying to set me up. I guess.

I'm sure you know this already, but don't let anyone bully you into getting back into dating. It would be very unusual to be ready for that immediately after (or even before, in this case!) a divorce. Take whatever time you need to grieve for the relationship first. In many ways it's like a loved one dying. It takes time to get over that, though of course everyone is different. Don't be afraid to tell your mom you're not ready yet - I'm sure she will understand.

And from a soulless legal perspective, since situations with kids are almost guaranteed to get contentious, you don't want to even be seen with anyone else until the ink is dry on the official decree. Avoid the appearance of evil, etc.

Also, all the cheers to Kehama. I was hoping that things would go well, and it sounds like you guys are turning the broken eggs into a pretty impressive omelette so far.

Reply to multiple comments (divorce method, kids, dating again): Agree with everyone saying there's no rulebook. There are lots of wrong ways, but there's just no one right way for any of it. It's what works for you.

Dealing with the kids:
They're gonna be sad. You can't insulate them from that. I will say my two (4 and 5 at time of separation) really rolled with it well. I don't know if that's their nature (to be accepting of change) or if it's how we handled it. We were sure not to badmouth each other. We told them together and enforced that it was not their fault. Actually, we apologized to them. We didn't argue in front of them. We tried to make it all feel as normal as possible.

Personally, I think the best thing you can do with kids in this situation is to be honest with them through all of it. And by that, I don't mean telling them everything. I got questions to which my answer was, "I'm sorry, but I won't tell you that." But the things I could tell them, like how things were going to change, I was very matter of fact about. I never, ever lied to them. Never told them their feelings weren't justified. Never held it against them if they stated a preference for their mom (which my son used to do quite often). I still remember separation + 1 year, my son telling me as I tucked him in, "Dad, I liked it better when you and mom lived together." He wasn't angry or crying. Just sad/reflective. It was a crushing thing to hear and all I could manage was, "I know you did, buddy, and I'm sorry that it can't be that way for you." He nodded. I gave him a hug and he went to sleep and really has never said anything about it again.

Dating:
I got back out there about a month after. I felt like, being mid 30s at the time, I'd already lost enough time and that I needed to be out there, even if it wasn't looking for a relationship. It was, for me, too soon. (See "rulebook, no,") Was about six months before I really dated in earnest (I went the online route). After about a year I fell into a yearlong relationship that was of the close but no cigar variety (she adamantly wanted kids and I was on the fence and, ultimately, unconvinced we were the right fit). Was out there for another year, had my heart ripped out once (still bothers me on some levels), end then met my now wife (we were together two years before getting married, engaged after one). Ultimately I tried to look at it as dating was dating (it's nice to just be out sometimes), but I wasn't going to commit to a relationship just to be in one, nor was I going to pass up something felt like it could be great just because I didn't necessarily feel ready. There's no accounting for timing in matters of the heart, but if you close yourself off to love outright you're pretty sure to never find it.

Eleima wrote:

I'm also angry at myself, I feel I should've known better. His father cheated on his mother and divorced her 20 years ago. His uncle cheated on his wife for over 30 years, right up to the day she died of cancer. Prize idiot I was.

Not one bit.

Even if cheating is programed in his DNA and IF he cheated it was because he was the one that ultimately made that choice.

It's not on you.

If we had to rely on vetting the cheating behavior of the relatives of all our partners for relationship viability there would be no one left to hook up with.

TrashiDawa wrote:
Eleima wrote:

I'm also angry at myself, I feel I should've known better. His father cheated on his mother and divorced her 20 years ago. His uncle cheated on his wife for over 30 years, right up to the day she died of cancer. Prize idiot I was.

Not one bit.

Even if cheating is programed in his DNA and IF he cheated it was because he was the one that ultimately made that choice.

It's not on you.

If we had to rely on vetting the cheating behavior of the relatives of all our partners for relationship viability there would be no one left to hook up with.

Yeah, my dad cheated on my mom, then his girlfriend, then his next girlfriend like crazy. I literally almost threw up the first time I had sex post divorce because it wasn't with my ex-wife and it all felt wrong and put a huge weird pain and weight in my stomach.

That said, I think there might be something of a nurture aspect to this. My nurture was that I very much did not want to be my dad... but if a dude idolized his dad's philandering... I could see that coming back to roost in the next generation too... hmmmm...

Demosthenes wrote:

That said, I think there might be something of a nurture aspect to this. My nurture was that I very much did not want to be my dad... but if a dude idolized his dad's philandering... I could see that coming back to roost in the next generation too... hmmmm...

Or raised with the idea that it's inevitable.

Nevertheless, you can't control other people; they will make their own choices. We're not doomed to become our parents but it takes some effort to not go to extremes in either direction.

(I guess this is accidentally on topic since do-what-your-parents-do led inexorably to my divorce... ex-h saw us as future matriarch-and-subject, I left to not get caught up in that and then it turned out I was also afraid to end up like my mom and put material security over equal partnership. When you scrape off the layer of cynicism I really am an idealist.)

Just to clarify - I wasn't saying don't go out and date. If you feel ready for it, knock yourself out! I was only saying that you shouldn't feel pressured into doing something if you're not ready for it, even (or perhaps especially) by well-meaning relatives.

Don't worry gang, I'm not being bullied into dating again. I just find it extremely hilarious. As it is right now, I don't want anything to do with men ever again (romantically speaking). Everyone says that'll change, but at this point, it just doesn't feel worth it. Too many headaches. At least for now.

Thank you, Clover and Ubrakto. What you two wrote about not insulating the boys from my sadness... It's hard not to feel guilty, because I want them to be happy so badly and they're going to have to deal with the aftermath of all this. Doesn't help that they're so freakin' young (10 months and 3 years) and helpless. Doesn't help that my husband keeps badmouthing me at every turn. But yeah, I'm always apologizing to them, and telling them I love them and that it's not their fault. Sometimes tearfully. I can't help it. No matter how small they are, I'm positive they soak up a lot more than we give children credit for.

I hear what you're saying on cheating and relationships, TrashiDawa, but it's more how my future ex reacted to those events. He still harbored resentment for what went down between his parents, but he's very close to his uncle, looks up to him and defends him at every turn. And would even proudly recount annecdotes in which his uncle was caught on camera and still got away with it because his motto is "deny, deny, deny." It's the whole unpaologetic attitude about it, I guess.

Progress: called the notary today, but only spoke to the secretary. He should call me back soon with names for a good lawyer, hopefully. For crying out loud, even picking up the phone to do this makes me nervous and sad all at once.

Eleima wrote:

Thank you, Clover and Ubrakto. What you two wrote about not insulating the boys from my sadness... It's hard not to feel guilty, because I want them to be happy so badly and they're going to have to deal with the aftermath of all this. Doesn't help that they're so freakin' young (10 months and 3 years) and helpless. Doesn't help that my husband keeps badmouthing me at every turn. But yeah, I'm always apologizing to them, and telling them I love them and that it's not their fault. Sometimes tearfully. I can't help it. No matter how small they are, I'm positive they soak up a lot more than we give children credit for.

At those ages I would try to keep the bigger things away from them as well. No matter how much your future ex is badmouthing you, your kids will see who took care of them in the end and it will have no value whatever your ex will have said. It will only work against him in the end. I can hardly imagine how you would badmouth someone to kids their age as it is! Sorry to hear it happens.
Keep doing what you are doing. It's what they need, you are doing great.

Eleima wrote:

Progress: called the notary today, but only spoke to the secretary. He should call me back soon with names for a good lawyer, hopefully. For crying out loud, even picking up the phone to do this makes me nervous and sad all at once.

This is all progress you need to make happen. For your and your children's happiness. Don't feel nervous about this. There is no shame in this, you are justified in every way.
You are not accountable to anyone but you and your children. Keep moving forward

Sparhawk wrote:
Eleima wrote:

Thank you, Clover and Ubrakto. What you two wrote about not insulating the boys from my sadness... It's hard not to feel guilty, because I want them to be happy so badly and they're going to have to deal with the aftermath of all this. Doesn't help that they're so freakin' young (10 months and 3 years) and helpless. Doesn't help that my husband keeps badmouthing me at every turn. But yeah, I'm always apologizing to them, and telling them I love them and that it's not their fault. Sometimes tearfully. I can't help it. No matter how small they are, I'm positive they soak up a lot more than we give children credit for.

At those ages I would try to keep the bigger things away from them as well. No matter how much your future ex is badmouthing you, your kids will see who took care of them in the end and it will have no value whatever your ex will have said. It will only work against him in the end. I can hardly imagine how you would badmouth someone to kids their age as it is! Sorry to hear it happens.
Keep doing what you are doing. It's what they need, you are doing great.

Sparhawk speaks the truth. From everything you've written, you're doing all that you can. And you also brought up a huge point (bolded). As someone who grew up with divorce, I think it's so important at the outset to play the "long game," as it were, with kids. By that I mean, when they're young, no they're not going to know/understand everything and sometimes behaving in all the right ways puts you at a perception disadvantage with your ex (pending their behavior). But kids grow up and they remember. And you want them to remember you doing everything you could to keep take care of them, guide them, and keep them out of the debris field. I love and respect both my mom and dad. They both did their best with me, but it was my mom and stepdad who were the ones pushing me to do better in school and take responsibility for things at home. Stuff I *hated* at the time, but understand so much better now. (My dad did his part, but it was weekends only for him and he was more focused on us having fun together, presents, etc. I still appreciate all that, a lot, but he seldom pushed, which is something this lazy, arrogant kid needed more than the next new video game.)

With regards to their ages, that may also work for you in the end. I was about 3 when my folks split up and I remember almost none of it. I don't remember how/when the living situation changed. For me, going to my dad's on the weekends, became normal very quickly. There wasn't much memory of them together for me to miss. Made it easier for me, I think.

clover wrote:

When you scrape off the layer of cynicism I really am an idealist.

There's a couple quotes about that. It applies to me as well.

Eleima wrote:

Don't worry gang, I'm not being bullied into dating again. I just find it extremely hilarious. As it is right now, I don't want anything to do with men ever again (romantically speaking). Everyone says that'll change, but at this point, it just doesn't feel worth it. Too many headaches. At least for now.

It should be the farthest thing on your mind at this point. That'd be putting the cart before the horse!

Pffft. Down with men!

ClockworkHouse wrote:

Pffft. Down with men!

Hey, as a future potential male dater I'd prefer you change the slogan to "Down with some men! But some are cool!"

Kehama wrote:
ClockworkHouse wrote:

Pffft. Down with men!

Hey, as a future potential male dater I'd prefer you change the slogan to "Down with some men! But some are cool!"

#notallmen

Divorce sucks especially if you are the one that was trying to make things "work". But every door closing and every dark day gives way to opportunities and a chance at something better. I spent the first year feeling sorry for myself and guess what that was fine and actually probably good for me in some way because without that period I couldn't start to realize that I actually had a great life.. my family is awesome and so were my friends.. with some self improvement and kicking myself in my butt I got back out there and was blessed to meet my current wife (I call her the best wife since she is second to none). I'm still friends with my ex-wife since I believe that despite what happened she is a good and deserving person and I was made a better man in the time I was with her. I choose to focus on the good and forget the bad...but it took some time to get there.

I recently got divorced (November 12th) and feel like a new person. I was married 8 years to someone who I loved at the time but we changed as people over those years. It was her decision for the divorce and when she said my son could stay I went and filed the papers the next day. No lawyers I was able to do everything myself. I hope to be able to come back and spend more time on the forums and in game now that I have a little more free time. I have been away from the message boards for so long. (ex wife wasn’t a fan of anything gaming related.)

Not all men indeed... It certainly does feel like that right now, but I know better, deep down. Heck, male goodjers are pretty decent dudes as far as I'm concerned.
Nekroman, it's good that the process was pretty smooth and painless for you. I know what you mean about the ex not being a fan of anything gaming related... I feel like I've been smothering that part of myself forever... Time to let it come out and play.

Actually, it's all men.

Eleima wrote:

Not all men indeed... It certainly does feel like that right now, but I know better, deep down. Heck, male goodjers are pretty decent dudes as far as I'm concerned.
Nekroman, it's good that the process was pretty smooth and painless for you. I know what you mean about the ex not being a fan of anything gaming related... I feel like I've been smothering that part of myself forever... Time to let it come out and play. :D

Amusingly, I kind of felt the same way. Awesomely, this lady I'm getting ready to go out with on Friday is a gamer and is super excited about playing DA:I as soon as her workload for her design firm slows down a little... and when I suggested a fun date together might be some couch coop of Diablo III on the PS4 and a movie, she got really excited about that.

TheGameguru wrote:

Divorce sucks especially if you are the one that was trying to make things "work". But every door closing and every dark day gives way to opportunities and a chance at something better. I spent the first year feeling sorry for myself and guess what that was fine and actually probably good for me in some way because without that period I couldn't start to realize that I actually had a great life.. my family is awesome and so were my friends.. with some self improvement and kicking myself in my butt I got back out there and was blessed to meet my current wife (I call her the best wife since she is second to none). I'm still friends with my ex-wife since I believe that despite what happened she is a good and deserving person and I was made a better man in the time I was with her. I choose to focus on the good and forget the bad...but it took some time to get there.

Guru, this thread is about actual marriage between people, not when you stopped buying AMD and went Nvidia.

Spoiler:

Sorry, couldn't quite help myself.

Demosthenes wrote:
Eleima wrote:

Not all men indeed... It certainly does feel like that right now, but I know better, deep down. Heck, male goodjers are pretty decent dudes as far as I'm concerned.
Nekroman, it's good that the process was pretty smooth and painless for you. I know what you mean about the ex not being a fan of anything gaming related... I feel like I've been smothering that part of myself forever... Time to let it come out and play. :D

Amusingly, I kind of felt the same way. Awesomely, this lady I'm getting ready to go out with on Friday is a gamer and is super excited about playing DA:I as soon as her workload for her design firm slows down a little... and when I suggested a fun date together might be some couch coop of Diablo III on the PS4 and a movie, she got really excited about that. :D

That sounds pretty awesome, good for you.

garion333 wrote:
TheGameguru wrote:

Divorce sucks especially if you are the one that was trying to make things "work". But every door closing and every dark day gives way to opportunities and a chance at something better. I spent the first year feeling sorry for myself and guess what that was fine and actually probably good for me in some way because without that period I couldn't start to realize that I actually had a great life.. my family is awesome and so were my friends.. with some self improvement and kicking myself in my butt I got back out there and was blessed to meet my current wife (I call her the best wife since she is second to none). I'm still friends with my ex-wife since I believe that despite what happened she is a good and deserving person and I was made a better man in the time I was with her. I choose to focus on the good and forget the bad...but it took some time to get there.

Guru, this thread is about actual marriage between people, not when you stopped buying AMD and went Nvidia.

Spoiler:

Sorry, couldn't quite help myself.

Spoiler:

glad you couldn't

Nekroman wrote:
Demosthenes wrote:
Eleima wrote:

Not all men indeed... It certainly does feel like that right now, but I know better, deep down. Heck, male goodjers are pretty decent dudes as far as I'm concerned.
Nekroman, it's good that the process was pretty smooth and painless for you. I know what you mean about the ex not being a fan of anything gaming related... I feel like I've been smothering that part of myself forever... Time to let it come out and play. :D

Amusingly, I kind of felt the same way. Awesomely, this lady I'm getting ready to go out with on Friday is a gamer and is super excited about playing DA:I as soon as her workload for her design firm slows down a little... and when I suggested a fun date together might be some couch coop of Diablo III on the PS4 and a movie, she got really excited about that. :D

That sounds pretty awesome, good for you.

Sounds cool!

Demosthenes wrote:
Eleima wrote:

Not all men indeed... It certainly does feel like that right now, but I know better, deep down. Heck, male goodjers are pretty decent dudes as far as I'm concerned.
Nekroman, it's good that the process was pretty smooth and painless for you. I know what you mean about the ex not being a fan of anything gaming related... I feel like I've been smothering that part of myself forever... Time to let it come out and play. :D

Amusingly, I kind of felt the same way. Awesomely, this lady I'm getting ready to go out with on Friday is a gamer and is super excited about playing DA:I as soon as her workload for her design firm slows down a little... and when I suggested a fun date together might be some couch coop of Diablo III on the PS4 and a movie, she got really excited about that. :D

I tried so hard to find a gamer when I was dating and never met one person who was any more than politely interested in my perspective on games, but had no interest of their own. Ah well. I've been more than compensated by my wife being awesome in all other respects.

Hope you both have an amazing time tomorrow!

So we went back to couples counseling yesterday and had a pretty good session. It helped for me to admit there's a lot on my plate right now and my feelings of being trapped aren't completely due to the marriage but a lot of other factors. It was also good to hear that we both want to work on the intimacy front and will be trying a couple's night next week. I hate Valentines day with a passion but am actually looking forward to this year.

Of course, when some of you post how much extra free time you have to game, I start getting jealous.

Eleima wrote:

Don't worry gang, I'm not being bullied into dating again. I just find it extremely hilarious. As it is right now, I don't want anything to do with men ever again (romantically speaking). Everyone says that'll change, but at this point, it just doesn't feel worth it. Too many headaches. At least for now.

Very opinioney opinion coming here: Maybe that feeling changed for others they knew. Maybe it changed for them personally. That has nothing to do with you. How you feel is how you feel, and that's central to who you are at any given time. The best a friend can do is respect you as you are, and help you make the most out of where you are at this point in time. Right now.

Eleima wrote:

Don't worry gang, I'm not being bullied into dating again. I just find it extremely hilarious. As it is right now, I don't want anything to do with men ever again (romantically speaking). Everyone says that'll change, but at this point, it just doesn't feel worth it. Too many headaches. At least for now.

You are going through a big change. For the last XXX years, you have been partially defined by your relationship with your husband. Now that it appears that is no longer in the picture, you will need to take the time to rebalance yourself and find out who you are again. Plus add in your kids and your job, and it may take a while until you feel comfortable enough with who you are before you start trying to add another person.

jdzappa wrote:

So we went back to couples counseling yesterday and had a pretty good session. It helped for me to admit there's a lot on my plate right now and my feelings of being trapped aren't completely due to the marriage but a lot of other factors. It was also good to hear that we both want to work on the intimacy front and will be trying a couple's night next week. I hate Valentines day with a passion but am actually looking forward to this year.

Of course, when some of you post how much extra free time you have to game, I start getting jealous.

Its good that you are really trying to put working into fixing the relationship. Hopefully fixing the marriage is what you really want deep down inside. The last couple years I always had this voice inside me that kept telling me how much better it would be if I wasn't married to this person anymore... I also do not know your whole situation like age, years married, children? All of those things tend to make everything more difficult. Good luck my friend, hopefully you are working towards what you really want.

Demosthenes wrote:
Kehama wrote:
ClockworkHouse wrote:

Pffft. Down with men!

Hey, as a future potential male dater I'd prefer you change the slogan to "Down with some men! But some are cool!"

#notallmen :lol:

It's actually about ethics in divorce journalism!

LouZiffer wrote:
Eleima wrote:

Don't worry gang, I'm not being bullied into dating again. I just find it extremely hilarious. As it is right now, I don't want anything to do with men ever again (romantically speaking). Everyone says that'll change, but at this point, it just doesn't feel worth it. Too many headaches. At least for now.

Very opinioney opinion coming here: Maybe that feeling changed for others they knew. Maybe it changed for them personally. That has nothing to do with you. How you feel is how you feel, and that's central to who you are at any given time. The best a friend can do is respect you as you are, and help you make the most out of where you are at this point in time. Right now.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying, Lou. This is my mom, and I know she means well and just wants me to be happy. It's not like she's setting me up, she was just joking around with a friend of hers, they like to see their kids happy together, but nothing more. Like I said, I'm not being badgered into anything, and this is definitely low on my list of priorities.

Besides, I have a new lover: GW2.