Fellow Atheists/Agnostic Atheists - Let's Chat: Do you feel it is risky being "out" these days?

Farscry wrote:

Also, I'm disappointed that this thread has turned into the same old crappy "theism versus atheism" debate. It was far more interesting before that point.

I asked theists to let us have this 1 thread and some couldn't. Draw your own conclusions on the state of atheists from that, if you will.

On Buddhism, I myself follow Buddhist philosophy more than any other "faith". I stop at the mystical supernatural stuff, but thankfully much of Buddhism encourages finding your own answers.

Farscry wrote:
LarryC wrote:

In many Eastern ways of thinking, Nirvana or other spiritual realms are real and coterminous - as real as Mount Fuji or Tibet. So Buddha leaving directions is literally, almost completely, similar to a trail guide leaving down instructions to go up Mount Everest, or perhaps a karate master leaving behind a discipline for fighting.

So Christians don't believe that Heaven and Hell are real and coterminous? They're just fictional constructs for the purpose of inventing parables used for teaching moral lessons?

By "coterminous," it means "existing in the same place."

I know of no Christian who believes that Hell and Heaven are actually on Earth, right now. I agree with NSMike and Farscry. Could we keep the theism out, please?

NSMike wrote:
Farscry wrote:

Also, I'm disappointed that this thread has turned into the same old crappy "theism versus atheism" debate. It was far more interesting before that point.

I tried, but...

IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/lEtoX.jpg)

It's either that or this. Still trying to figure out which one.

IMAGE(http://www.sxc.hu/pic/m/k/kf/kfawcett/115317_troll_doll_2.jpg)

LarryC, would you please just go away? This is supposed to be a thread for atheists to commiserate, not defend themselves against a pushy theist, which is exactly what you're being right now.

Good Lord guys.

I am NOT trying to discuss anything related to Christ, Christianity, or to lead anywhere at all in that direction, and would like it best if everyone please stop doing that!

Stop wrecking your own thread by preemptively ganging up on the theist. Stop trying to make the thread into a theist vs. atheist thing.

Sheesh.

Alrighty. Back to point.

It seems to me that in the poll where atheists were strongly being discriminated against, it also ranked Buddhists and similar such movements, even though Buddhists could also be atheists.

Does it afford an atheist any kind of protection to profess to practice Buddhist philosophy, especially if it were true? Would that just make it worse?

DSGamer wrote:
Farscry wrote:

Also, I'm disappointed that this thread has turned into the same old crappy "theism versus atheism" debate. It was far more interesting before that point.

I asked theists to let us have this 1 thread and some couldn't. Draw your own conclusions on the state of atheists from that, if you will.

I think there's some confusion with the thread title. Maybe it would be better to name it "Fellow Atheists/Agnostic Athiests - Let's Chat: Do You Feel Being "Out" is Risky These Days?" to make it more clear.

LarryC wrote:

Stop wrecking your own thread by preemptively ganging up on the theist. Stop trying to make the thread into a theist vs. atheist thing.

No. No. No.

You did this. You did this because you couldn't let us have a discussion on our own terms. You had to inject your wisdom. We had to hear your voice. You have to explain to us how intolerant our culture is and how mellow you are and how you just don't understand Americans. We got it. You've been doing this for YEARS. Please let us have one thread. One thread. Gods forbid there be a thread where LarryC doesn't get to dominate.

I asked you online. I asked you offline. I begged you offline. Even there you got into an argument. Just please drop it.

Yellek wrote:
DSGamer wrote:
Farscry wrote:

Also, I'm disappointed that this thread has turned into the same old crappy "theism versus atheism" debate. It was far more interesting before that point.

I asked theists to let us have this 1 thread and some couldn't. Draw your own conclusions on the state of atheists from that, if you will.

I think there's some confusion with the thread title. Maybe it would be better to name it "Fellow Atheists/Agnostic Athiests - Let's Chat: Do You Feel Being "Out" is Risky These Days?" to make it more clear.

Thanks. And done. Doubt it will make a difference.

DSGamer:

I've gotten to the question, it's posted in the post above yours. If you'll notice, it's not me dispensing wisdom. It is not me telling you how intolerant America is. It's me asking if an atheist could reduce his risks by being more open with a possibly more acceptable guise, which is still truthful, and which is consistent with his atheism.

I hope you find it useful.

LarryC wrote:

DSGamer:

I've gotten to the question, it's posted in the post above yours. If you'll notice, it's not me dispensing wisdom. It is not me telling you how intolerant America is. It's me asking if an atheist could reduce his risks by being more open with a possibly more acceptable guise, which is still truthful, and which is consistent with his atheism.

I hope you find it useful.

It sounds to me like you're finding whole new ways to say the same thing you said in the last thread. That you think atheists are touchy and that that's our biggest problem.

LarryC wrote:

It's me asking if an atheist could reduce his risks by being more open with a possibly more acceptable guise.

I hope you find it useful.

Really? It would be best if atheists just pretended to be theists? Are you really suggesting that instead of being honest about ourselves, we should pretend to be something else? This is the kind of theist-vs-athiest tactics that got the other thread shut down. LarryC, I appreciate your thoughts, but I would like to get back to the thread's original discussion and have it be an athiest/agnostic athiest thread from athiests/agnostic athiests and not patronizing theists.

LarryC wrote:

No. It's an honest question. If you really believe in certain aspects of Buddhist philosophy, and it'd get you out of a rough spot, would it not be better to be "categorized" as a Buddhist, instead? It can be a way to lessen the hostility.

NO

No. It's an honest question. If you really believe in certain aspects of Buddhist philosophy, and it'd get you out of a rough spot, would it not be better to be "categorized" as a Buddhist, instead? It can be a way to lessen the hostility.

KrazyTaco[FO]:

That is the entire basis of my earlier question. Do Americans consider Buddhists to be theists? I don't. More to the point, do American Atheists consider Buddhists to be theists? It was frustrating to have had it derailed so much into theism vs. atheism again.

NSMike wrote:
Farscry wrote:

Also, I'm disappointed that this thread has turned into the same old crappy "theism versus atheism" debate. It was far more interesting before that point.

I tried, but...

IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/lEtoX.jpg)

THE POWER OF CHRIST COMPELS YOU to follow any theist that posts all the way to Cleveland.

Guys, if you all think a certain line of questioning doesn't belong in a thread, why not just...not respond to that person?

Or else respond to them in another thread?

Don't want to sound like I'm blaming the victim here, but it seems as much as everyone hates these kind of arguments...people can't help themselves. Why not shunt them into another thread?

Here--I'll create it: http://www.gamerswithjobs.com/node/1...

See a post you think doesn't belong in the thread you're in and is better discussed over there? Respond over there and drop a link in the thread you feel is going off the rails. Maybe that'll help.

LarryC wrote:

No. It's an honest question. If you really believe in certain aspects of Buddhist philosophy, and it'd get you out of a rough spot, would it not be better to be "categorized" as a Buddhist, instead? It can be a way to lessen the hostility.

IMAGE(http://deegeesbb.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/stopsign51.jpg)

CheezePavilion wrote:

Guys, if you all think a certain line of questioning doesn't belong in a thread, why not just...not respond to that person?

Or else respond to them in another thread?

I did. I begged Larry to let it be offline in PMs. He argued with me there, even.

Gonna ask more people to use that script. Stone gives good advice.

LarryC, you're reminding me of this guy I work with who, if you make the mistake of saying something beyond the scope of "good morning" or "hey", will follow you back to your office and then stand in the doorway for thirty minutes talking about whatever he feels like while you become increasingly obvious in your desire to end the conversation. You can fully turn your back to him and start working on your computer and the guy just will not get the hint and stop talking.

He will not. Get. The. Hint.

Why lie about Buddhism? Life would certainly be easier for atheists if we just picked the things we liked from Christianity and called ourselves good Christians.
Apologies for my part in that derail. LarryC was approaching a point that I find extremely interesting and it runs counter to the intent of this thread. The problem is that the point isn't an interesting topic by itself since it requires bunches of background work. The point is where parallels about others are highlighted while the same parallels about oneself are ignored. Sadly LarryC couldn't see the hilarity in his pointing out the fragmented nature of Buddhist beliefs as a person of the Catholic persuasion.

My PM box is always open. Often ignored, but always open.

This isn't working for me. I get.

"add on could not be installed because it appears to be corrupt"

Posting here in the hope that someone can help me get this going.

Edit: On second thought, nevermind.

Rezzy:

I would not consider it lying.

Consider. If you tell the theist that you don't believe in any god, well, you know how that goes. They'll just assume all kinds of weird crap about you anyway. If you tell them that you practice certain Buddhist philosophies, they'll still assume all kinds of weird crap about you, but they'll treat you a little better.

In neither case are they really getting an understanding of what you believe in, anyway. It's not about telling the truth. It's about exchanging one set of weird assumptions in a fanatic's head with another set of weird assumptions.

Larry, this is the commiseration thread, not the thread about how to pass as something 'acceptable'.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

A) You are not atheist;
B) You are not American.

You are giving advice to a group you're not a member of, on how to get along in a society you're not a member of.

That takes some serious gall, right there.

So, in other words, they should go in the closet.

Ask the gay guy how well that works.

Rubb Ed wrote:

So, in other words, they should go in the closet.

Ask the gay guy how well that works.

Do we get to grow fabulous atheist beards? Will I suddenly learn how to dance?

LarryC wrote:

Rezzy:

I would not consider it lying.

Consider. If you tell the theist that you don't believe in any god, well, you know how that goes. They'll just assume all kinds of weird crap about you anyway. If you tell them that you practice certain Buddhist philosophies, they'll still assume all kinds of weird crap about you, but they'll treat you a little better.

In neither case are they really getting an understanding of what you believe in, anyway. It's not about telling the truth. It's about exchanging one set of weird assumptions in a fanatic's head with another set of weird assumptions.

Larry, I refrained from calling you out in the last thread, and I have so far refrained from doing so in this one. Congratulations: you've finally overwhelmed my general aversion to confrontation. You are a large part (though clearly not solely responsible) for the previous thread being locked, and you seem to be doing you damnedest to do the same to this one. Cut it out. Bow out of this thread. Please.

Rubb Ed wrote:

So, in other words, they should go in the closet.

Ask the gay guy how well that works.

Exactly. This is a thread about being an "out" atheist. It's meant to hear stories like NSMike's or Farscry. People who literally can't talk to even their own family openly about this.

Tanglebones wrote:
Rubb Ed wrote:

So, in other words, they should go in the closet.

Ask the gay guy how well that works.

Do we get to grow fabulous atheist beards? Will I suddenly learn how to dance?

If we're going to start adopting atheists beards this is my vote.

IMAGE(http://c580019.r19.cf2.rackcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/brian-wilson-beard.jpg)

Rubb Ed wrote:

So, in other words, they should go in the closet.

Ask the gay guy how well that works.

Just tell people you that you practice certain Greek philosophies.

I'm already in the atheism closet as far as my family goes. It sucks. It's sort-of self-imposed right now, with good reason, but I can't be the person I actually am around them. My family would be just as perturbed and upset if I were to claim Buddhism instead of atheism. Why lie twice?

Hell, when my sister left the church they nearly booted her out of the house and she left for another Christian denomination.

I will tell them one day, hopefully soon. And it may seem like I could avoid a lot of trouble by keeping to myself the thoughts that go on in my head, but I am really just trading one set of problems for another.

DSGamer wrote:

If we're going to start adopting atheists beards this is my vote.

IMAGE(http://c580019.r19.cf2.rackcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/brian-wilson-beard.jpg)

Damn, I didn't get the good pattern of facial hair when I went atheist. I can grow a fine goatee, and I could become the world's leading Unix admin if I ever grow out the epic-level neckbeard I am capable of producing, but the cheek-sideburn connection never really developed.

Malor wrote:

Larry, this is the commiseration thread, not the thread about how to pass as something 'acceptable'.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

A) You are not atheist;
B) You are not American.

You are giving advice to a group you're not a member of, on how to get along in a society you're not a member of.

That takes some serious gall, right there.

IMAGE(http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j335/muzzynj/LARRYC2.jpg)

(too far?)