Fellow Atheists/Agnostic Atheists - Let's Chat: Do you feel it is risky being "out" these days?

Farscry wrote:
NSMike wrote:

Completely off the rails, but if anything, this demonstrates why the gratuity culture of the U.S. needs to die a loud, thunderous death and the service industry needs to f*cking pay its employees.

This is long overdue.

But what incentive will they have to provide good service if they're paid well?

KingGorilla wrote:
NSMike wrote:

Completely off the rails, but if anything, this demonstrates why the gratuity culture of the U.S. needs to die a loud, thunderous death and the service industry needs to f*cking pay its employees.

COMMUNIST!

But something that got lost in the fervor. The check is for 34 dollars and change. That is for a Party of 8 or more. What kind of tight wad is going there and spending 4 bucks a head? I would like water...TAP WATER, and your cheapest appetizer to share among my 8 friends.

That's because, according to the articles, she tried to split the check up to (unsuccessfully) avoid the automatic gratuity.

Arseholes can be pastors, just like wonderful people can too. That is all there is to this story.

Note that one account I read pointed out that the pastor left a $6 cash tip on the table, and the note was pointing out her dissatisfaction at a mandatory nature of the tip, not at the existence of a tip at all.

Jonman wrote:

Arseholes can be pastors, just like wonderful people can too. That is all there is to this story.

Note that one account I read pointed out that the pastor left a $6 cash tip on the table, and the note was pointing out her dissatisfaction at a mandatory nature of the tip, not at the existence of a tip at all.

This is per the Pastor's claim, and hasn't been substantiated, though.

Bonus_Eruptus wrote:
H.P. Lovesauce wrote:

If the pastor loses her congregation and has to make ends meet by waiting tables at Applebee's, I will gladly believe in a God.

Read something on /r/atheism indicating that the pastor runs one of those storefront churches that's just a shell to avoid paying taxes.

Yep, I read something that her congregation is like 20 people or something. Anybody can use the title "pastor". You can even do it yourself online, for free.

Suffice to say, my "recently-retired from the ministry after 40+ years" father is far less amused by that link than I am.

Tanglebones wrote:
Jonman wrote:

Arseholes can be pastors, just like wonderful people can too. That is all there is to this story.

Note that one account I read pointed out that the pastor left a $6 cash tip on the table, and the note was pointing out her dissatisfaction at a mandatory nature of the tip, not at the existence of a tip at all.

This is per the Pastor's claim, and hasn't been substantiated, though.

Let's assume for a moment that it's true. Are we all cool about this now? Is the math we're seeing here that $6 changes our assessment of the pastor from arsehole to merely peevish?

Jonman wrote:
Tanglebones wrote:
Jonman wrote:

Arseholes can be pastors, just like wonderful people can too. That is all there is to this story.

Note that one account I read pointed out that the pastor left a $6 cash tip on the table, and the note was pointing out her dissatisfaction at a mandatory nature of the tip, not at the existence of a tip at all.

This is per the Pastor's claim, and hasn't been substantiated, though.

Let's assume for a moment that it's true. Are we all cool about this now? Is the math we're seeing here that $6 changes our assessment of the pastor from arsehole to merely peevish?

Nah, the big deal was her pressuring Applebee's to get the waitress fired. Otherwise it's just an internet blip.

Jonman wrote:

Arseholes can be pastors... That is all there is to this story.

No, no, no, no. Others have made that point before, but I have to disagree. We know the nexus point this woman occupies is more complicated than the Venn diagram where "pastor" and "arsehole" meet. I wish I could produce an elegant illustration—any aspiring Edward Tuftes in the house?

This woman's character disorders—and they are pronounced and numerous—are one issue. But we can't deny that the strong undercurrent of I've-got-mine-ism on the part of many on the right is abetted and exacerbated by certain strains of evangelical Christianity (see: Republican National Convention, The).

H.P. Lovesauce wrote:

This woman's character disorders—and they are pronounced and numerous—are one issue. But we can't deny that the strong undercurrent of I've-got-mine-ism on the part of many on the right is abetted and exacerbated by certain strains of evangelical Christianity (see: Republican National Convention, The).

That maybe the case, but I have difficulty extrapolating from one person being a selfish meanie to tarring an entire political or religious movement with the same brush.

Furthermore, i would say that there's a strong undercurrent of I've-got-mine-ism to American culture. It's not an issue localized to the right of the political spectrum, or certain religious sub-demographics. It's part of the national character.

And for the record, at this point, I'm counting myself as part of that American culture.

I don't believe that the pastor's pressure to fire the waitress was what got her fired. From the Consumerist post, all that Applebee's uses in their defense is that the waitress broke corporate policy by publicly posting "private information". Of course, this gets refuted when you see that Applebee's has, in the past, posted comments from customers (including their names) when left on receipts.

What I find even more troubling is that the waitress that posted the image, and was fired for doing so, wasn't even the one who handled the table (source: Consumerist).

I don't like that tipping is basically required in the US, and I agree that there should be an overhaul to how the service industry pay works. But I also don't ask for separate checks and expect that will get me out of some mandatory gratuity.

I agree that this pastor should considering living more like a follower of Christ than a Christian. Based on everything we've seen, my take is that she's a petty little troll, who really doesn't understand the contents of the book that she's thumping.

I may be an atheist, but that doesn't mean I lack a moral compass, compassion, or sense of common decency.

Indeed. And I look forward to the coming lawsuit with Applebees for the wrongful and humiliating termination.

Jonman wrote:
H.P. Lovesauce wrote:

This woman's character disorders—and they are pronounced and numerous—are one issue. But we can't deny that the strong undercurrent of I've-got-mine-ism on the part of many on the right is abetted and exacerbated by certain strains of evangelical Christianity (see: Republican National Convention, The).

That maybe the case, but I have difficulty extrapolating from one person being a selfish meanie to tarring an entire political or religious movement with the same brush.

Yeah, I just don't think one story of a member of a religious group being an entitled douchebag tells anything about her movement's underlying philosophy.

KingGorilla wrote:

Indeed. And I look forward to the coming lawsuit with Applebees for the wrongful and humiliating termination.

Lawyers are already lining up to represent Welch.

Part of me wants to condemn our ambulance chasing legal system while another part wants to gleefully rejoice in it.

Seth wrote:
KingGorilla wrote:

Indeed. And I look forward to the coming lawsuit with Applebees for the wrongful and humiliating termination.

Lawyers are already lining up to represent Welch.

Part of me wants to condemn our ambulance chasing legal system while another part wants to gleefully rejoice in it.

Dude, I'm right here. We can see eachother.

Btw, I enjoy a black and white story of good vs evil, but I should point out that the pastor did apologize.

Some article wrote:

Bell, 37, said her note was a "lapse in my character and judgment" that "has been blown out of proportion.

Bell called Applebee’s to complain after learning the receipt was drawing heavy interest online. Some Reddit users offered to pay the waitress who received the note a tip.

"My heart is really broken," she told The Smoking Gun. "I've brought embarrassment to my church and ministry."

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...

There's no actual apology in there, she just feels bad her "lapse" got so much attention.

Seth wrote:

Btw, I enjoy a black and white story of good vs evil, but I should point out that the pastor did apologize.

Some article wrote:

Bell, 37, said her note was a "lapse in my character and judgment" that "has been blown out of proportion.

Bell called Applebee’s to complain after learning the receipt was drawing heavy interest online. Some Reddit users offered to pay the waitress who received the note a tip.

"My heart is really broken," she told The Smoking Gun. "I've brought embarrassment to my church and ministry."

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...

Call me cynical, but I would guess the apology may have been motivated more by fear of the screaming Internet hordes than actual commiseration.

EDIT: clover'hausered!

clover wrote:

There's no actual apology in there, she just feels bad her "lapse" got so much attention.

Yeah I re read it and I must have
Made up the remorse part. This is essentially the same type of non apology we take corporations to task for: "I'm sorry you feel that way and attacked something of value to me."

That's two strikes for me today. One more And I'm in the corner.

Seth wrote:

That's two strikes for me today. One more And I'm in the corner.

Sounds like somebody needs a Scooby Snack!

Farscry wrote:
Seth wrote:

That's two strikes for me today. One more And I'm in the corner.

Sounds like somebody needs a Scooby Snack!

The Fun Lovin' Criminals make everything better. I still don't understand why they are so big in Europe, but nobody here in their home country has heard of them.

Rallick wrote:

The Fun Lovin' Criminals make everything better. I still don't understand why they are so big in Europe, but nobody here in their home country has heard of them.

The (Hasselhoff) effect?

Dr.Ghastly wrote:
Rallick wrote:

The Fun Lovin' Criminals make everything better. I still don't understand why they are so big in Europe, but nobody here in their home country has heard of them.

The (Hasselhoff) effect?

That's strictly German. The rest of Europe disavows all knowledge of The Hoff.

Rallick wrote:
Dr.Ghastly wrote:
Rallick wrote:

The Fun Lovin' Criminals make everything better. I still don't understand why they are so big in Europe, but nobody here in their home country has heard of them.

The (Hasselhoff) effect?

That's strictly German. The rest of Europe disavows all knowledge of The Hoff.

Hmm, I was goignt o say note the parens, but you may have caused a paradox. Or I'm drunk. At 3:48. On a Tuesday.

Dr.Ghastly wrote:
Rallick wrote:
Dr.Ghastly wrote:
Rallick wrote:

The Fun Lovin' Criminals make everything better. I still don't understand why they are so big in Europe, but nobody here in their home country has heard of them.

The (Hasselhoff) effect?

That's strictly German. The rest of Europe disavows all knowledge of The Hoff.

Hmm, I was goignt o say note the parens, but you may have caused a paradox. Or I'm drunk. At 3:48. On a Tuesday.

There is nothing wrong with that!

NathanialG wrote:
Dr.Ghastly wrote:
Rallick wrote:
Dr.Ghastly wrote:
Rallick wrote:

The Fun Lovin' Criminals make everything better. I still don't understand why they are so big in Europe, but nobody here in their home country has heard of them.

The (Hasselhoff) effect?

That's strictly German. The rest of Europe disavows all knowledge of The Hoff.

Hmm, I was goignt o say note the parens, but you may have caused a paradox. Or I'm drunk. At 3:48. On a Tuesday.

There is nothing wrong with that!

Depends on the reason. Mine is my job. So..yuck...but wheee!

Dr.Ghastly wrote:

Hmm, I was goignt o say note the parens, but you may have caused a paradox. Or I'm drunk. At 3:48. On a Tuesday.

IMAGE(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8147/7555916976_c6037dfa9d_n.jpg)

It's 5 o'clock somewhere?

McIrishJihad wrote:

It's 5 o'clock somewhere?

I don't keep regular hours, but sure!

Interesting article about a woman who wrote a CNN iReport on atheistic parenting:

CNN wrote:

Lots of people disagreed with her. Tons. They flagged her iReport as inappropriate and criticized CNN for linking to her essay on the CNN.com homepage.

...But Mitchell’s essay also struck a chord with hundreds of like-minded parents raising children in a world where lack of belief puts them in the minority, often even in their own family.