Fellow Atheists/Agnostic Atheists - Let's Chat: Do you feel it is risky being "out" these days?

As a Christian I have to say that I actually loved that lovecraft quote. I think truth doesn't need much of a defense if it it indeed true. It reminds me of a bible verse in judges.

"When the men of the town rose early in the morning, behold, the altar of Baal was broken down… And after they had made search and inquired, they said, “Gideon the son of Joash has done this thing.” Then the men of the town said to Joash, “Bring out your son, that he may die, for he has pulled down the altar of Baal and cut down the Asherah beside it.” But Joash said to all who were arrayed against him, “Will you contend for Baal? Or will you defend his cause? Whoever contends for him shall be put to death by morning. If he is a god, let him contend for himself, because his altar has been pulled down.” (6:28-31)

Basically this verse says to me if God can't do something as basic as smite someone who defiles their alter, then there probably not a reall God. This can also be said that if a god you grew up in church with cant answer harder philosophical questions openly then he must not be a God

...that sounds like Biblical encouragement to burn down churches to me.

Seth wrote:

...that sounds like Biblical encouragement to burn down churches to me.

That's Old Testament. That stuff doesn't count anymore.

Basically this verse says to me if God can't do something as basic as smite someone who defiles their alter, then there probably not a reall God.

Jehovah was unable to prevent multiple destruction of his Temple...

I think you're missing the point, he is saying that people shouldn't have to avenge there god but if god sees a point in protecting something then he will.

Well, it becomes problematic for a person of an atheistic, agnostic, view. The Christian Church grew up around a god and saints who could be prayed to, and could exact miracles on the mortal realm. Pray for rain, and there shall be rain. Not sure what all of those that became dinner for lions did wrong. Perhaps instead of Nikto, they said Neck Tie. And this comes down to a flaw in worldview. If the God of modern Christianity is still the god that Constantine used to march over the barbarian hordes; I am not sure how Richard Dawkins is still alive.

If yours is a god that operates like your State Farm Agent, I am not sure how much of a leg you have to stand on, or ever really did. Penn and Tenner can show you in one night, without any technology, just how to do Christian miracles.

Or last night, with the Superbowl, God helps the Ravens win. This analogy falls apart now because they were up against the 49ers from godless, gay sex filled San Francisco. But then again, God seemed to help the Giants win a World Series a couple years ago.

FiveIron wrote:

I think you're missing the point, he is saying that people shouldn't have to avenge there god but if god sees a point in protecting something then he will.

Right....which cuts both ways, as Robear pointed out. By Joash's own decree, Jehovah is just as impotent as Baal.

Edit: it's also in stark contrast to the entire tenet of faith. Apparently Baal has to get out of bed and incinerate a poorly behaved vandal to garner worship, while Jehovah gets a pass.

Seth wrote:
FiveIron wrote:

I think you're missing the point, he is saying that people shouldn't have to avenge there god but if god sees a point in protecting something then he will.

Right....which cuts both ways, as Robear pointed out. By Joash's own decree, Jehovah is just as impotent as Baal.

Edit: it's also in stark contrast to the entire tenet of faith. Apparently Baal has to get out of bed and incinerate a poorly behaved vandal to garner worship, while Jehovah gets a pass.

It's a pity, Baal drops mad loot.

KingGorilla wrote:

Well, it becomes problematic for a person of an atheistic, agnostic, view. The Christian Church grew up around a god and saints who could be prayed to, and could exact miracles on the mortal realm. Pray for rain, and there shall be rain. Not sure what all of those that became dinner for lions did wrong. Perhaps instead of Nikto, they said Neck Tie. And this comes down to a flaw in worldview. If the God of modern Christianity is still the god that Constantine used to march over the barbarian hordes; I am not sure how Richard Dawkins is still alive.

If yours is a god that operates like your State Farm Agent, I am not sure how much of a leg you have to stand on, or ever really did. Penn and Tenner can show you in one night, without any technology, just how to do Christian miracles.

Or last night, with the Superbowl, God helps the Ravens win. This analogy falls apart now because they were up against the 49ers from godless, gay sex filled San Francisco. But then again, God seemed to help the Giants win a World Series a couple years ago.

No, it holds up. Brian Wilson stole God's beard.

Well until we have the Apaloosa Agnostics squaring off against the Corpus Christi Santos, I figure we can assume everyone things god is helping them.

Not a Godwin, but Hitler and Mussolini received some special church blessings from Catholic priests, and Protestant Ministers.

KingGorilla wrote:

Not a Godwin, but Hitler and Mussolini received some special church blessings from Catholic priests, and Protestant Ministers.

I'm pretty sure that like using "no-homo" to claim that you're not being homophobic, claiming that you're not Godwinning while Godwinning doesn't work.

The Jews were polytheistic until as late as the 2nd century BC. Heck, *King Solomon* was said to have raised temples to multiple gods (Chemosh and Moloch) in addition to the more famous one, and they lasted for about 400 years as part of Hebrew religious life. It was not until after the Babylonian Exile that monotheism became a strong element in Jewish religion, and it took about 300 years to really take hold. By the time of the Maccabeean Revolt, it would have been dominant. But it's pretty easy to find evidence of polytheism in Judaism in the Bible, and even more easy in Jewish writings and actual archaeological evidence of the time (stele, inscriptions, tablets, etc.).

I'm curious to know what the GWJ atheist/agnostic community thinks of the pastor refusing to tip at Applebee's story. So last week a pastor brings in her congregation for an after-service community lunch at Applebee's. Since they were a group larger than 8, an 18% gratuity was added to the bill. The pastor then wrote, "I give 10% to God, why would I give you 18%?!?" and left no tip. When the waitress who got stiffed posted the picture on Reddit and caused an internet firestorm, the pastor made sure to call Applebee's corporate and get her fired.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/business...

As a Christian (albeit not necessarily a good one), I personally find this deplorable. But her actions IMHO don't really represent the majority of Christians, and certainly not the majority of pastors. In fact, I think this woman desperately needs to find a new calling in life. But that being said, on another board I frequent I've heard from people in the service industry that Evangelical Christians tend to be the most pushy and demanding at restaurants and also the most stingy.

Anyhow, curious to hear what everyone thinks without starting a separate thread for this.

Hahaha. That is not workin out so well for Applebee's or the pastor who did it.

jdzappa wrote:

I'm curious to know what the GWJ atheist/agnostic community thinks of the pastor refusing to tip at Applebee's story. So last week a pastor brings in her congregation for an after-service community lunch at Applebee's. Since they were a group larger than 8, an 18% gratuity was added to the bill. The pastor then wrote, "I give 10% to God, why would I give you 18%?!?" and left no tip. When the waitress who got stiffed posted the picture on Reddit and caused an internet firestorm, the pastor made sure to call Applebee's corporate and get her fired.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/business...

As a Christian (albeit not necessarily a good one), I personally find this deplorable. But her actions IMHO don't really represent the majority of Christians, and certainly not the majority of pastors. In fact, I think this woman desperately needs to find a new calling in life. But that being said, on another board I frequent I've heard from people in the service industry that Evangelical Christians tend to be the most pushy and demanding at restaurants and also the most stingy.

Anyhow, curious to hear what everyone thinks without starting a separate thread for this.

Sounds like she's an ass. The tipping thing was bad enough, but the doubling down & getting the waitress fired? That's awful. Seems like it's representative of being a selfish person; not particularly relevant to her religion, except insofar as she used it as an excuse, and has to face her flock as a public laughingstock now.

Some people are just cheap asshats. This one was just using religion to validate their asshattery because, being a pastor, they probably think of themselves as an amazingly charitable and awesome individual and can't square that with their cheapness.

An asshole who happens to be a pastor is still an asshole. Nothing about Christianity in this at all, lots of people just suck regardless of claimed affiliation.

Also, if it relates to your job, don't post it online. I mean, seriously, how hard of a lesson is this to learn?

It sparked this thought in my head. Well you give 10 percent to God, a genocidal, absentee father, rapist. He only turns up later on when his son gets a bit famous (Kinda like Michael Lohan). Maybe your waitress needed that 18 percent so she could be a mother to her own children, or her parents.

The Applebee's waitress should have cropped out the signature.

I like how the worst thing that happened to the Pastor is that she gets embarrassed. But the waitress gets fired. Not an eye for an eye. Dollars to doughnuts, she was crying for the waitress to get fired for that horrid embarrassment.

In the abbreviated words of Bill Maher, I wish this pastor was a follower of Christ, and not just a Christian.

I said to a friend. I already don't eat at Appblbee's because of the bad food, and I am already an atheist because of bad people. What more can I do to not support either?

MilkmanDanimal wrote:

An asshole who happens to be a pastor is still an asshole. Nothing about Christianity in this at all, lots of people just suck regardless of claimed affiliation.

Also, if it relates to your job, don't post it online. I mean, seriously, how hard of a lesson is this to learn?

Yeah, this pretty well sums it up for me too.

MilkmanDanimal wrote:

An asshole who happens to be a pastor is still an asshole. Nothing about Christianity in this at all, lots of people just suck regardless of claimed affiliation.

Also, if it relates to your job, don't post it online. I mean, seriously, how hard of a lesson is this to learn?

Yeah, can't really add much to this. Religious jerk is just a subset of jerk.

This is a bit of a tangent but the party I feel most sorry for here is actually the faceless restaurant chain. They pretty much had to fire that waitress for being an idiot, and now they've got to take the PR hit from the Internet for doing so. It's a no-win situation for them.

A tithe is 10% of income. A tip is 18% of the cost of just a meal. It's comparing a 12 ton apple to a 10 ounce orange.

KingGorilla wrote:

It sparked this thought in my head. Well you give 10 percent to God, a genocidal, absentee father, rapist. He only turns up later on when his son gets a bit famous (Kinda like Michael Lohan). Maybe your waitress needed that 18 percent so she could be a mother to her own children, or her parents.

The Applebee's waitress should have cropped out the signature.

I like how the worst thing that happened to the Pastor is that she gets embarrassed. But the waitress gets fired. Not an eye for an eye. Dollars to doughnuts, she was crying for the waitress to get fired for that horrid embarrassment.

In the abbreviated words of Bill Maher, I wish this pastor was a follower of Christ, and not just a Christian.

I said to a friend. I already don't eat at Appblbee's because of the bad food, and I am already an atheist because of bad people. What more can I do to not support either?

Agree with Bill on this. What you do to the least of them, you do to me... and really, if you're not gonna tip... you don't want to eat out anymore. I've had enough friends in food services to know that.

If the pastor loses her congregation and has to make ends meet by waiting tables at Applebee's, I will gladly believe in a God.

Demosthenes wrote:
KingGorilla wrote:

It sparked this thought in my head. Well you give 10 percent to God, a genocidal, absentee father, rapist. He only turns up later on when his son gets a bit famous (Kinda like Michael Lohan). Maybe your waitress needed that 18 percent so she could be a mother to her own children, or her parents.

The Applebee's waitress should have cropped out the signature.

I like how the worst thing that happened to the Pastor is that she gets embarrassed. But the waitress gets fired. Not an eye for an eye. Dollars to doughnuts, she was crying for the waitress to get fired for that horrid embarrassment.

In the abbreviated words of Bill Maher, I wish this pastor was a follower of Christ, and not just a Christian.

I said to a friend. I already don't eat at Appblbee's because of the bad food, and I am already an atheist because of bad people. What more can I do to not support either?

Agree with Bill on this. What you do to the least of them, you do to me... and really, if you're not gonna tip... you don't want to eat out anymore. I've had enough friends in food services to know that. :P

Well the jeanie is out, this Pastor is saying she would rather eat spit, and drink dishwater than be called out in public.

H.P. Lovesauce wrote:

If the pastor loses her congregation and has to make ends meet by waiting tables at Applebee's, I will gladly believe in a God.

Read something on /r/atheism indicating that the pastor runs one of those storefront churches that's just a shell to avoid paying taxes.

Completely off the rails, but if anything, this demonstrates why the gratuity culture of the U.S. needs to die a loud, thunderous death and the service industry needs to f*cking pay its employees.

NSMike wrote:

Completely off the rails, but if anything, this demonstrates why the gratuity culture of the U.S. needs to die a loud, thunderous death and the service industry needs to f*cking pay its employees.

COMMUNIST!

But something that got lost in the fervor. The check is for 34 dollars and change. That is for a Party of 8 or more. What kind of tight wad is going there and spending 4 bucks a head? I would like water...TAP WATER, and your cheapest appetizer to share among my 8 friends.

In one of the linked articles I read that it was over $200, and they insisted on separate checks.

NSMike wrote:

Completely off the rails, but if anything, this demonstrates why the gratuity culture of the U.S. needs to die a loud, thunderous death and the service industry needs to f*cking pay its employees.

This is long overdue.