Why is George Zimmerman allowed to roam free tonight?

Its the minimum mandatory sentencing as stated by the judge. In a sane world, jury annulment would let her go and she wouldn't face any issues.

Paleocon wrote:

The more I hear about how monumentally fubared that state is, the gladder I am I live in the People's Republic of Maryland.

I'll vote for the first Presidential contender to advocate for the following:

Stengah wrote:
rosenhane wrote:

Stengah,
So when the police slap cuffs on you, put you in the back of a squad car, bring you down to jail, then question you... that doesn't qualify as being arrested? I definitely would call it being arrested, but maybe there is some legal difference. Either way under Florida code "he agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful." meaning unless they had some sort of evidence that Zimmerman was lying they had to release him. It wasn't a police screw up, they were following what the law said they must do.

You're correct that being brought to the station does not count as being arrested. Bringing someone in for questioning is a different thing than arresting someone and then questioning. I imagine Zimmerman willingly went to the station too (as soon as it was announced the police wanted to arrest him, he turned himself in), and the handcuffs were procedure. As I pointed out above, the reason he wasn't arrested or charged was because the State Attorney's Office told the officer in charge of the case/investigation to let Zimmerman go. I don't think that particular part was messed up by the police, but by the State AO for not allowing the police to arrest and charge him like they wanted to.

Keep in mind we are not the media and we don't care about what Zimmerman looks like, just what he's done.

While a "Terry Stop" can involve handcuffing a suspect, the SCOTUS has stated that being put in handcuffs and brought to the police station for questions is being under arrest, even if you're not formally charged or booked or even told you've been arrested.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/script...

The mere facts that petitioner was not told he was under arrest, was not "booked," and would not have had an arrest record if the interrogation had proved fruitless, while not insignificant for all purposes, [...] obviously do not make petitioner's seizure even roughly analogous to the narrowly defined intrusions involved in Terry and its progeny.

OG_Slinger: "The events that led up to the formation of the so-called Neighborhood Watch program was a series of break-ins over the summer of 2011. Witnesses said the perpetrators were black. Zimmerman had a bike stolen off his porch that summer by a black teen. And one of Zimmerman's immediate neighbors was the victim of a home invasion that summer. The perpetrators, again black, fled through Zimmerman's property when chased by the police. (Source.)" Wait so let me get this straight he's racist because he'd called in multiple calls about black males, but over the summer there had been a lot of issues with black males breaking into houses multiple times.

I'm willing to give that the Sanford Police department isn't the best in the country, the Sherman Wares incident was the summer before. That might have to do with the refusal to accept the resignation of the chief, he was the new sheriff in town already.

Quentin, thanks I thought it was something along those lines, but did not look it up.

Quintin_Stone wrote:

While a "Terry Stop" can involve handcuffing a suspect, the SCOTUS has stated that being put in handcuffs and brought to the police station for questions is being under arrest, even if you're not formally charged or booked or even told you've been arrested.

Huh, I would have thought that would have been a separate thing. Good to know though.

rosenhane wrote:

Wait so let me get this straight he's racist because he'd called in multiple calls about black males, but over the summer there had been a lot of issues with black males breaking into houses multiple times.

Where'd I say Zimmerman was racist? I said race was involved.

You attempted to paint him as a defender of blacks with the anonymous family letter. I just pointed out he had plenty of reasons to dislike and pre-judge young black males. And his interaction with Martin and the 911 tapes strongly implies Zimmerman viewed any young black male as a criminal and likely dangerous.

Seriously. Would it kill you to admit Zimmerman f*cked up by shooting a kid carrying Skittles and a large reason for that was because Martin was black?

OG_slinger wrote:

Would it kill you to admit Zimmerman f*cked up by shooting a kid carrying Skittles and a large reason for that was because Martin was black?

I'm genuinely curious what rosenhane's angle is with these posts.

SixteenBlue wrote:
OG_slinger wrote:

Would it kill you to admit Zimmerman f*cked up by shooting a kid carrying Skittles and a large reason for that was because Martin was black?

I'm genuinely curious what rosenhane's angle is with these posts.

My guess is it has something to do with this:

rosenhane wrote:

I'm sorry if I'm getting snarky, but I'm getting sick of a Latino getting pilloried in the media simply because someone thought he was white at first and wanted to get some ratings with a good racial profiling case to work up the viewer base.

OG_slinger wrote:
SixteenBlue wrote:
OG_slinger wrote:

Would it kill you to admit Zimmerman f*cked up by shooting a kid carrying Skittles and a large reason for that was because Martin was black?

I'm genuinely curious what rosenhane's angle is with these posts.

My guess is it has something to do with this:

rosenhane wrote:

I'm sorry if I'm getting snarky, but I'm getting sick of a Latino getting pilloried in the media simply because someone thought he was white at first and wanted to get some ratings with a good racial profiling case to work up the viewer base.

Ah, right. He's getting his reputation because he killed a kid carrying skittles home from the store and because the police completely botched the entire situation. Not because people thought he was white.

TBH the biggest racists are the PD who sent a narcotics detective to investigate the shooting of a black teenager.

OG_slinger wrote:

Would it kill you to admit Zimmerman f*cked up by shooting a kid carrying Skittles and a large reason for that was because Martin was black?

Would it kill you to admit that it might have had nothing to do with race?

rosenhane wrote:
OG_slinger wrote:

Would it kill you to admit Zimmerman f*cked up by shooting a kid carrying Skittles and a large reason for that was because Martin was black?

Would it kill you to admit that it might have had nothing to do with race?

I'll admit it's possible, but extremely unlikely.

rosenhane wrote:

Would it kill you to admit that it might have had nothing to do with race?

Given what we know, even with the slanted reporting by NBC, that doesn't look very likely.

rosenhane wrote:
OG_slinger wrote:

Would it kill you to admit Zimmerman f*cked up by shooting a kid carrying Skittles and a large reason for that was because Martin was black?

Would it kill you to admit that it might have had nothing to do with race?

As others have said, it's extremely unlikely that race played no role in what happened.

Leaving race out of the issue--both Zimmerman's and Marin's--can you even admit that Zimmerman f*cked up in how he handled things that night?

OG_slinger wrote:
rosenhane wrote:
OG_slinger wrote:

Would it kill you to admit Zimmerman f*cked up by shooting a kid carrying Skittles and a large reason for that was because Martin was black?

Would it kill you to admit that it might have had nothing to do with race?

As others have said, it's extremely unlikely that race played no role in what happened.

Leaving race out of the issue--both Zimmerman's and Marin's--can you even admit that Zimmerman f*cked up in how he handled things that night?

Unequivocally.

Edit: Even if things went down exactly as he said they did. My best guess is that Martin was coming back from the store, talking on his bluetooth headset (which Zimmerman probably didn't see), more concerned with his conversation than exactly where he was going. Zimmerman sees a person he doesn't recognize walking around (on private property) without any clear destination and thinks that person is looking for points of entry. Zimmerman calls police and keeps an eye on the "suspicious looking" person instead of going on the errand he was about to run (My understanding is that Zimmerman wasn't doing NW at the time he saw Martin, he was off on his own business and spotted him as he was leaving). Martin passes Zimmerman, who is still in his vehicle with police, sees that he is being watched and leaves the street area into the walkway. Zimmerman (still on the phone with police) decides to follow the Martin to see where he goes so he can tell the police. Dispatcher informs him that they don't need him to follow Martin. Zimmerman stops where he is and talks further with the police dispatcher, having lost sight of Martin. Sometime in the next few minutes Martin comes back to where Zimmerman is still standing waiting for the cops to show up. A confrontation of some sort occurs, leading to a struggle leading to the shot.

Anywhere along that timeline either party could have made a different choice and the ending would have been vastly different.

rosenhane wrote:

Zimmerman sees a person he doesn't recognize walking around (on private property) without any clear destination and thinks that person is looking for points of entry.

There are some 240 housing units in the complex. I seriously doubt Zimmerman recognized all the residents, let alone their family and friends. Not recognizing someone isn't grounds for stalking them (unless you want to admit that Zimmerman was watching Martin because he was a black male).

Also, you're veering off into pure conjecture. You'd be hard pressed to tell what the destination was of anyone walking. Walking isn't a suspicious activity, certainly not when it involves a shortcut that all the residents take. Your version only works if Zimmerman had pre-judged Martin based on his race, immediately assuming Martin was up to no good because it was night and he was black.

And the private property thing doesn't hold much water. Martin was walking through common areas that were shared by all the residents, making them quasi-public spaces. Legally, he had a right to do so since he was a guest of one of the residents. Besides that, the Retreat at Twin Lakes is a gated community pretty much in name only. The gates aren't closed. There's no guard. And there's not even a sign that says "private property, no trespassing".

Gorilla.800.lbs wrote:

Meanwhile in Virginia:

Website Offered Gun Owners Shooting Range Targets Of Trayvon Martin

I... what...
*spits in rage*
Scum. Pure scum.

OG_Slinger,
I'd be hard pressed to tell you the destination of someone walking, but heading no where in particular is easy to spot. Race isn't a factor. I have lots of rights on the pubic street, including hanging around your car on the street. That doesn't mean you won't want to know why I'm checking your car out in the dark if I do, unless you are saying that you only would be concerned if it was a black youth. Then why yes, it is a race issue,

rosenhane wrote:

OG_Slinger,
I'd be hard pressed to tell you the destination of someone walking, but heading no where in particular is easy to spot. Race isn't a factor. I have lots of rights on the pubic street, including hanging around your car on the street. That doesn't mean you won't want to know why I'm checking your car out in the dark if I do, unless you are saying that you only would be concerned if it was a black youth. Then why yes, it is a race issue,

OK. Explain to me how you can tell when someone is walking nowhere in particular when you just admitted that you can't tell where anyone is walking to. And even if there is a difference that you can spot you then have to show how walking nowhere in particular can be told apart from walking to a destination when you're absorbed in a telephone conversation.

Nothing else you said had anything to do with this incident. Martin wasn't checking out anyone's car. He wasn't checking out anyone's house, either. He was simply walking back from the corner store.

The only thing Martin did that Zimmerman found suspicious was be black.

Also how was he not walking anywhere in particular? Wasn't he walking back to his father's house or something like that? Dude wasn't scoping cars, he was picking up some Skittles.

And chatting with his girlfriend on the way back from the store. How much less suspicious could behavior be?

Anyone who runs is a V.C. Anyone who stands still is a well-disciplined V.C!

He was walking back to his father's fiancée's house.

rosenhane wrote:

Sometime in the next few minutes Martin comes back to where Zimmerman is still standing waiting for the cops to show up.

This part did not happen. Once Zimmerman was told that the cops didn't need him to follow Trayvon, he stopped running after him and initially agreed to meet the police at a different location (the mailboxes for the development), but then told the 911 dispatcher to instead have the cops call him when they get to the area. According to Trayvon's girlfriend, she heard someone approach and confront Trayvon while she was talking to him on the phone, which would mean that Zimmerman continued to follow Trayvon instead of waiting for the police to arrive or make his way to where they agreed to meet, which was in the opposite direction of where Trayvon was staying.

Gorilla.800.lbs wrote:

Meanwhile in Virginia:

Website Offered Gun Owners Shooting Range Targets Of Trayvon Martin

I was wondering how long that would take to show up in the media. This was posted in the gun blogs almost a month ago.

Gorilla.800.lbs wrote:

Anyone who runs is a V.C. Anyone who stands still is a well-disciplined V.C!

You should do a story about me!

Why should I do a story about you?

Stengah wrote:

He was walking back to his father's fiancée's house.

rosenhane wrote:

Sometime in the next few minutes Martin comes back to where Zimmerman is still standing waiting for the cops to show up.

This part did not happen. Once Zimmerman was told that the cops didn't need him to follow Trayvon, he stopped running after him and initially agreed to meet the police at a different location (the mailboxes for the development), but then told the 911 dispatcher to instead have the cops call him when they get to the area. According to Trayvon's girlfriend, she heard someone approach and confront Trayvon while she was talking to him on the phone, which would mean that Zimmerman continued to follow Trayvon instead of waiting for the police to arrive or make his way to where they agreed to meet, which was in the opposite direction of where Trayvon was staying.

According to the girl that has been claimed to be his girlfriend (I've seen some digging through twitter logs that she had been at one point, but wasn't at the time of the shooting. She was supposed to be a good friend though.) she heard someone approach Travyon, whom no one has disputed was walking? How does she know that he was approached versus him approaching someone else? I believe that the vehicle Zimmerman was driving was parked near the walkway entrance at the curb, a block or so from the mailboxes. martin was out of his vehicle and walking when told he didn't need to follow Martin and wasn't sure which building he was behind (placing him behind the townhomes, which is where Martin was killed). In order to go to the mailboxes Zimmerman would have had to backtrack over a block to meet police. However according to the family and "girlfriend"'sversion of the events, Martin had eluded Zimmerman, but then Zimmerman then chased him down on foot.

Martins father wrote:

"He knew he was being followed and tried to get away from the guy, and the guy still caught up with him," Tracey Martin said. "And that's the most disturbing part. He thought he had got away from the guy, and the guy backtracked for him."

link
Map
IMAGE(http://abcnews.go.com/images/US/ht_trayvon_martin_phone_call_dm_120320_main.jpg)
hmm.. on second thought something's wrong with that shot, there aren't any calls from his parents (it would still show up even if the phone was off right?)

How does she know that he was approached versus him approaching someone else?

Because Zimmerman started out in the car. The ONLY way that this confrontation could have transpired is if Zimmerman got out of his car and instigated it.

You're making up fantasy scenarios that don't vaguely fit the facts.

Malor wrote:
How does she know that he was approached versus him approaching someone else?

Because Zimmerman started out in the car. The ONLY way that this confrontation could have transpired is if Zimmerman got out of his car and instigated it.

You're making up fantasy scenarios that don't vaguely fit the facts.

Zimmerman had every legal right to exit his vehicle. And I doubt the older, heavier Zimmerman ran down the athletic young football player on foot. Unless he dragged Martin behind the building, Martin was ahead of Zimmerman when Zimmerman lost sight of Martin.

Didn't you say on page 23 that the only difference between John McNeil and Zimmerman was that McNeil is serving life? So you are saying that McNeil instigated the confrontation that caused him to go to prison? He drove home got out of his car when he knew that Epps was there.