People are still fighting Obamacare?

fangblackbone wrote:
I'm convinced the main reason American conservatives oppose public funding for the public good is because some of the public are not them.

Fixed.
This is not in anyway labeling the conservatives in this thread or on these boards that have discussed and raised legitimate concerns. The above is for the vocal, protest sign carrying and publicly vehemently opposed conservatives and the politicians and pundits who foster their hypocrisy.

I should've come back sooner to correct my painting conservatives with too broad a brush.

I think there is a pretty big gulf between a Normad (that's your new 'ship name, guys) and the most vituperative of right-wingers. I am afraid that more and more of the people in that middle are taking the position you state. Call it the influence of Fox News or whatever, but seemingly ordinary and sane people take the position that "X isn't a problem because it hasn't happen to me or mine" more and more often.

Normad (that's your new 'ship name, guys)

Well, I can't unsee that and now it's in my brain.

I guess it was only a matter of time.

http://q13fox.com/2016/05/17/man-tel...

H.P. Lovesauce wrote:

Normad

Motion denied, see me in chambers.

NormanTheIntern wrote:
H.P. Lovesauce wrote:

Normad

Motion denied, see me in chambers.

NormanTheIntern wrote:
H.P. Lovesauce wrote:

Normad

Motion denied, see me in chambers.

Since we don't have the picture thread anymore I am just going to put this here:

IMAGE(https://scontent.ford1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13669547_10154555611161435_2153848257402381303_o.jpg)

NathanialG wrote:

Since we don't have the picture thread anymore I am just going to put this here:

IMAGE(https://scontent.ford1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13669547_10154555611161435_2153848257402381303_o.jpg)

Woah woah woah. Replace? With what? When has that ever been a thing?

The bar is so low for the GOP. You can literally run on two positions. Repeal ObamaCare and omg the 2nd amemendent and you are golden.

TheGameguru wrote:

The bar is so low for the GOP. You can literally run on two positions. Repeal ObamaCare and omg the 2nd amemendent and you are golden.

You forgot the third one for the trifecta. COAL!

Drill Baby Drill!

He said "repeal, defund OR replace." Just because he wants it gone doesn't mean he's under any obligation to replace it with anything. What we had before was just fine!

It sure looks like Aetna quit Obamacare because Obama opposed their merger

There has been a theory, circulating in Washington’s health policy circles for the past few weeks, that major insurer Aetna was scaling back its Obamacare marketplace plans because the Obama administration blocked its proposed merger with Humana.

Up until now, this was only a theory — one inferred from the timing of the blocked merger (in July) and Aetna souring on Obamacare (in August).

Now there’s proof.

Documents obtained by the Huffington Post show that Aetna expressly conditioned its marketplace participation on the merger’s approval. The company threatened to “immediately … reduce our 2017 exchange footprint” should the Obama administration challenge the deal.

So a downside to the ACA. If private insurers are used then in fact they can kind of hold the government hostage by threatening to withdraw from the exchanges.

We weren't allowed to try to become a monopoly, so now we're willingly reducing our own market share.

Wait, what? This sounds like the most petty, counter-productive deal they could have crafted.

Demosthenes wrote:

We weren't allowed to try to become a monopoly, so now we're willingly reducing our own market share.

Wait, what? This sounds like the most petty, counter-productive deal they could have crafted.

It's more that Aetna's plans have too many older, sicker (i.e. more expensive, less profitable) insured, and Humana is turning a decent profit by having more of the younger insured people that are supposed to offset the older group. If they were able to get the merger, then what was Humana's profits could have offset the losses of Aetna. I feel like the letter was meant as a financial warning, not as blackmail, but it sure reads like a poor attempt at blackmail.

In a sane world, big bills like the ACA would be seen as starting points and unintended consequences would be addressed as they came up, things would be tweaked, etc. Instead, the ACA is set as written (except for the parts that Republicans have refused to fund at all), because it's better to be able to point to 'failed policy' in campaign commercials than actually do something for the citizens who live in this sh*tty country.

The ACA is in for a tough year.

The market is smaller than projected. The people who have bought health plans overall are sicker than predicted. And health insurers have incurred larger losses than anticipated.

As a result, some large national insurance companies, including UnitedHealthcare, Humana and Aetna, plan to abandon markets across the country next year. And health insurers in Wisconsin are proposing the largest rate increases yet for health plans sold on the online marketplaces throughout the state.

The people who have bought health plans overall are sicker than predicted.

Gee, United States has overly-expensive healthcare that actually doesn't compare well to the rest of the developed world, especially in preventative programs, and its citizens are generally sicker. Who would have guessed?

No matter what solution we try, we're going to need to help the sick people get better (where possible), help the not-sick people stay not-sick, and just live with the cost for a while, if we're going to get better healthcare overall.

This is why profit-motive healthcare is terrible for people's actual health. People who are sick don't turn a profit, and are harder to insure. People who aren't sick are easy to insure, and do turn a profit. Insurers just want to make money on the latter, without helping the former. Corporate health insurance is enough to make me believe evil is a real concept.

Right. For-profit social services are a bet that government is *always* going to be less efficient than (cost of services + profit) at each transaction. And given that without regulatory limits, profit can be unlimited, that's a really bad bet.

What's happening now is exactly what Republicans wanted to happen. The program has been starved of funds, and deliberately prevented from setting up in many states, decreasing its ability to change terms as well as the pool of people involved. The original intent was to start, and then have Congress make adjustments and tweaks and even big changes over the years, but the "Just Say No" Republicans have literally done everything they could not just to prevent that, but to actively break the program. And if they get a few more years, it'll work.

I wonder how much the 'sicker than expected' is just people who put off healthcare for years now getting it, so there is a spike in their bills due to the pent up demand, or people who are still used to acting like they have been acting for a long time and not getting preventive services and instead waiting until it is a more expensive emergency situation because that is what they've been taught to do.

LeapingGnome wrote:

I wonder how much the 'sicker than expected' is just people who put off healthcare for years now getting it, so there is a spike in their bills due to the pent up demand, or people who are still used to acting like they have been acting for a long time and not getting preventive services and instead waiting until it is a more expensive emergency situation because that is what they've been taught to do.

Every time I've read something about this particular issue with ObamaCare, it's exactly this situation. People are finally able to go to a doctor and get long-term illnesses checked and treated, so they do. Also, even finally having some health insurance, it doesn't pay all the costs, so people will still wait until the last minute to avoid co-payments and the 20%-40% of the bill that insurance still doesn't pay.

If people were able to have real healthcare all along without all of the for-profit nonsense, then we would all be a lot healthier as a whole.

As for death panels, that label can be attached securely to the insurance companies. It's difficult to take the republican threat of government death panels seriously when we are already living with them in the form of the insurance companies who will put profit over people each and every time, denying every claim they can possibly get away with denying and using as many tricks and deceptions as they can to ensure people cannot get the treatments they need for serious illnesses.

Nomad wrote:

The ACA is in for a tough year.

The market is smaller than projected. The people who have bought health plans overall are sicker than predicted. And health insurers have incurred larger losses than anticipated.

As a result, some large national insurance companies, including UnitedHealthcare, Humana and Aetna, plan to abandon markets across the country next year. And health insurers in Wisconsin are proposing the largest rate increases yet for health plans sold on the online marketplaces throughout the state.

Major changes take longer than hoped to be seen as unmitigated success - film at 11. *eyeroll*

(Not aimed at you, Nomad, more at the idea that new things should magically be wildly successful right out of the gate.)

bekkilyn wrote:
LeapingGnome wrote:

I wonder how much the 'sicker than expected' is just people who put off healthcare for years now getting it, so there is a spike in their bills due to the pent up demand, or people who are still used to acting like they have been acting for a long time and not getting preventive services and instead waiting until it is a more expensive emergency situation because that is what they've been taught to do.

Every time I've read something about this particular issue with ObamaCare, it's exactly this situation. People are finally able to go to a doctor and get long-term illnesses checked and treated, so they do. Also, even finally having some health insurance, it doesn't pay all the costs, so people will still wait until the last minute to avoid co-payments and the 20%-40% of the bill that insurance still doesn't pay.

Prior to Obamacare there were a very small handful of pilot programs that offered health coverage to groups of people who didn't have any before. Those programs found that people consumed more medical services for the first few years as they caught up on getting things checked out and treated, but after five years the costs of those groups were virtually identical to the population at large.

Laws need minor tweaks from time to time... like replacing the private insurance system with single payer.

NormanTheIntern wrote:

Laws need minor tweaks from time to time... like replacing the private insurance system with single payer.

Even though I have a feeling you're being sarcastic here, I happen to agree with this statement.

bekkilyn wrote:
NormanTheIntern wrote:

Laws need minor tweaks from time to time... like replacing the private insurance system with single payer.

Even though I have a feeling you're being sarcastic here, I happen to agree with this statement. :)

I believe Norman has been for a single payer system for some time.

Chumpy_McChump wrote:

(Not aimed at you, Nomad, more at the idea that new things should magically be wildly successful right out of the gate.)

But that is the current climate. Every issue is a huge one, every misstep a huge blunder, everything is hyper scrutinized.

Yonder wrote:
bekkilyn wrote:
NormanTheIntern wrote:

Laws need minor tweaks from time to time... like replacing the private insurance system with single payer.

Even though I have a feeling you're being sarcastic here, I happen to agree with this statement. :)

I believe Norman has been for a single payer system for some time.

Oh my apologies if that's the case! I still agree either way though!

I was thinking sarcasm because of the way he included "minor tweaks" )

NSMike wrote:

Corporate health insurance is enough to make me believe evil is a real concept.

I can't hit the Like button enough times for this statement.

Seriously, there is nearly nothing redeeming about for-profit health insurance companies. They exist not to provide health care for people, but to take money in a glorified gambling operation while working as hard as they can to deny benefits to any of their customers who need help with healthcare expenses.