Yet another headphone thread

Jeff-66 wrote:

Ok, this is odd. First off, I'm using

* Win7-x64.
* X-Fi Xtreme Music, 3.5mm out to speakers
* foobar with the WASAPI plugin
* X-Fi Console set to Audio Creation, 44.1khz, bit-matched enabled.

I happened to be doing some file maneuvering, copying, pasting, etc. The mere act of changing directories in Explorer, or moving a file, would at times cause a half-second pause in foobar. I then looked at the X-Fi console, and noticed that when those pauses were occurring, it would be jumping from 44.1khz to 48khz. Turns out, something in this setup REALLY wants it to be on 48khz. Once it got there, it would be happy, and no more pauses. If I set it back to 44.1, it'd be back at 48 before long.

I don't think it made it any audio difference, but I'm not positive.

For perfect bit-matched playback, does WASAPI need the 44.1kzh in the x-fi panel like ASIO does?

Do you have windows set up to make sounds when you do those actions in explorer?

Strekos wrote:

Do you have windows set up to make sounds when you do those actions in explorer?

Doh! sure enough. I just tried, and yep, a faint click sound effect. Good call.

Off to the lab for more testing...

edit: Ruled everything out, except WASAPI. If that is in use, and any other windows sound occurs, it kicks the X-Fi panel up to 48khz.

Strekos, do you know if 44.1khz and 'bit-matched' setting matter in the X-Fi panel, or is the mere use of WASAPI enough to ensure bit-matched playback?

That's probably a Creative driver bug. They're not exactly known for quality jobs on Vista/W7. Might as well use ASIO, it's just as easy from Foobar.

The only way to test for bitperfect that I know of is to play a DTS-encoded WAV over a S/PDIF to a DTS-enabled receiver. If you get music, you're bitperfect. I can post the link again if you haven't already gotten the file I use for testing.

Jeff-66 wrote:
Strekos wrote:

Do you have windows set up to make sounds when you do those actions in explorer?

Doh! sure enough. I just tried, and yep, a faint click sound effect. Good call.

Off to the lab for more testing...

edit: Ruled everything out, except WASAPI. If that is in use, and any other windows sound occurs, it kicks the X-Fi panel up to 48khz.

Strekos, do you know if 44.1khz and 'bit-matched' setting matter in the X-Fi panel, or is the mere use of WASAPI enough to ensure bit-matched playback?

Sorry, I don't know anything about the X-Fi. I don't know if the setting will cause it to upsample to 48khz or if it will just use the stream as-is. Malor's DTS test is the only way to know for sure, but you can just go by what your ears tell you too.

Or if ASIO works better for you, then just use that of course. One bit-perfect stream is the same as another I've just had hell in the past getting ASIO to work with my USB DAC, whereas WASAPI worked without any hassle.

Ok, so the Sennheiser 595's that cover your ears and rather isolate you sound-wise are a little high on the price range for me, but they look awesome. What is a good headset that offers the same benefits (especially the comfort of those while isolating you from surrounding noise reasonably well) with quality sound off a computer? I primarily just need a really good gaming headset, because I'm tired of replacing crap headphones every 1-2 years.

Having a mic is a huge plus, but not having one isn't a dealbreaker.

I'm using a nice cheap pair of Sennheiser HD 201's on my PC.

Farscry wrote:

Ok, so the Sennheiser 595's that cover your ears and rather isolate you sound-wise are a little high on the price range for me, but they look awesome. What is a good headset that offers the same benefits (especially the comfort of those while isolating you from surrounding noise reasonably well) with quality sound off a computer? I primarily just need a really good gaming headset, because I'm tired of replacing crap headphones every 1-2 years.

Having a mic is a huge plus, but not having one isn't a dealbreaker.

Check out my post about the Astro A40 mixamp and headset in the other headphone thread. Assuming you are cool with the cost, they might meet your needs.

Malor, do you know if the ATI 4xxx and 5xxx series are capable of 44.1kHz over HDMI? The newest version of the oh-so-awesome MediaBrowser plugin just added iTunes/music support, so I was planning on starting to use my HTPCs as audio streamers, as well. I'd like to not have to use a separate sound card.

zeroKFE wrote:
Farscry wrote:

Ok, so the Sennheiser 595's that cover your ears and rather isolate you sound-wise are a little high on the price range for me, but they look awesome. What is a good headset that offers the same benefits (especially the comfort of those while isolating you from surrounding noise reasonably well) with quality sound off a computer? I primarily just need a really good gaming headset, because I'm tired of replacing crap headphones every 1-2 years.

Having a mic is a huge plus, but not having one isn't a dealbreaker.

Check out my post about the Astro A40 mixamp and headset in the other headphone thread. Assuming you are cool with the cost, they might meet your needs.

Ooh, must've missed that. I'll go check it out, thanks Zero!

Strekos wrote:

Sorry, I don't know anything about the X-Fi. I don't know if the setting will cause it to upsample to 48khz or if it will just use the stream as-is. Malor's DTS test is the only way to know for sure, but you can just go by what your ears tell you too.

Or if ASIO works better for you, then just use that of course. One bit-perfect stream is the same as another I've just had hell in the past getting ASIO to work with my USB DAC, whereas WASAPI worked without any hassle.

I got the ASIO plugin for foobar, and it's working perfectly. I think I'll stick with it, for now, since other windows sounds don't interfere, and it will stick to 44.1khz.

Farscry wrote:
zeroKFE wrote:
Farscry wrote:

Ok, so the Sennheiser 595's that cover your ears and rather isolate you sound-wise are a little high on the price range for me, but they look awesome. What is a good headset that offers the same benefits (especially the comfort of those while isolating you from surrounding noise reasonably well) with quality sound off a computer? I primarily just need a really good gaming headset, because I'm tired of replacing crap headphones every 1-2 years.

Having a mic is a huge plus, but not having one isn't a dealbreaker.

Check out my post about the Astro A40 mixamp and headset in the other headphone thread. Assuming you are cool with the cost, they might meet your needs.

Ooh, must've missed that. I'll go check it out, thanks Zero!

Holy crap, man. I posted that I needed to go with something less expensive than the Sennheiser 595's, not more expensive!

Farscry wrote:

Holy crap, man. I posted that I needed to go with something less expensive than the Sennheiser 595's, not more expensive! :shock:

Yeah, I laughed at Zero's reply. If you don't mind separating the mic, the Sennheiser HD280 headphones aren't shabby and the HD555 seem to be well liked too. The Zalman ZM1 clip-on mic works well with a standard set of headphones.

Farscry wrote:

Ok, so the Sennheiser 595's that cover your ears and rather isolate you sound-wise are a little high on the price range for me, but they look awesome. What is a good headset that offers the same benefits (especially the comfort of those while isolating you from surrounding noise reasonably well) with quality sound off a computer? I primarily just need a really good gaming headset, because I'm tired of replacing crap headphones every 1-2 years.

Having a mic is a huge plus, but not having one isn't a dealbreaker.

What zero read wrote:

Ok, so the Sennheiser 595's that cover your ears and rather isolate you sound-wise, skim, but they look awesome. What is a good headset that offers the same benefits (especially the comfort of those while isolating you from surrounding noise reasonably well) with quality sound off a computer? I primarily just need a really good gaming headset, because I'm tired of replacing crap headphones every 1-2 years and money is no object!

Having a mic is a huge plus, but not having one isn't a dealbreaker.

Er, yeah, sorry about that. Guess I should read more closely before I reply.

But hey, Christmas is just around the corner!

LiquidMantis wrote:
Farscry wrote:

Holy crap, man. I posted that I needed to go with something less expensive than the Sennheiser 595's, not more expensive! :shock:

Yeah, I laughed at Zero's reply. If you don't mind separating the mic, the Sennheiser HD280 headphones aren't shabby and the HD555 seem to be well liked too. The Zalman ZM1 clip-on mic works well with a standard set of headphones.

Those are the exact two that I was going to recommend to Farscry as well. My cousin was blown away by my 595's, but wanted to go down the price scale some. He settled on the 555's and he loves them. The 280's have received universal praise, and I think are well regarded as gaming headphones too.

One more thing to point out is that the 280s are closed whereas the 555s are open. The 280s are like quality earmuffs that happen to also make music. They're also a vice on your head. You'll probably find yourself yelling in voice chat. The 555s are going to be more like using a supraaural headset where you get biofeedback to keep your voice in check. I much prefer my [high-end] open headphones to my 280s, especially for sessions of any real duration.

Farscry wrote:

Ok, so the Sennheiser 595's that cover your ears and rather isolate you sound-wise are a little high on the price range for me, but they look awesome. What is a good headset that offers the same benefits (especially the comfort of those while isolating you from surrounding noise reasonably well) with quality sound off a computer? I primarily just need a really good gaming headset, because I'm tired of replacing crap headphones every 1-2 years.

Having a mic is a huge plus, but not having one isn't a dealbreaker.

The 595s have zero isolation, so if that's part of what you're looking for, it would be money ill-spent.

Strekos wrote:

The 595s have zero isolation, so if that's part of what you're looking for, it would be money ill-spent.

Odd, the 595's I found on Amazon have a closed-ear design. The ones on Newegg had an open ear design. Maybe there's multiple versions?

Jeff-66 wrote:
LiquidMantis wrote:

Yeah, I laughed at Zero's reply. If you don't mind separating the mic, the Sennheiser HD280 headphones aren't shabby and the HD555 seem to be well liked too. The Zalman ZM1 clip-on mic works well with a standard set of headphones.

Those are the exact two that I was going to recommend to Farscry as well. My cousin was blown away by my 595's, but wanted to go down the price scale some. He settled on the 555's and he loves them. The 280's have received universal praise, and I think are well regarded as gaming headphones too.

Thanks guys, I'll be looking at these later tonight and considering them seriously.

Malor, do you know if the ATI 4xxx and 5xxx series are capable of 44.1kHz over HDMI?

I'm sorry, I don't. I don't have any easy way to check; I do have an ATI 4870, but it's not installed in anything right now, and the receiver I use on the computer doesn't have HDMI inputs. It would be a giant PITA to try to find out.

I settled on HD280s as my first pair of 'proper' headphones after reading up another headphone thread here and couldn't be happier. If you are totally sure closed is what you want (it's like I'm in my own little world with them on - you will not hear anything else if they are outputting anything at all) and you haven't got an above average sized head (they're comfy on me for ~5 hour sessions of L4D but I can see how they'd get uncomfortable if they were tighter), I highly recommend them.

pignoli wrote:

I can see how they'd get uncomfortable if they were tighter

Well, let's just say I have a hard time finding hats.

Farscry wrote:
Strekos wrote:

The 595s have zero isolation, so if that's part of what you're looking for, it would be money ill-spent.

Odd, the 595's I found on Amazon have a closed-ear design. The ones on Newegg had an open ear design. Maybe there's multiple versions?

There is no version of the 595's that's closed. They're open design only. I just looked on amazon and nowhere on that page does it say they're open. Are you just looking at the picture and assuming they're closed because they surround your ear? The backs of the actual drivers aren't covered by anything but a grid. Without a solid cover on the back of the driver you don't any isolation.

I love my 595's, but they're not the pair I pick if I don't want anybody bothering me while I do something.

LiquidMantis wrote:
pignoli wrote:

I can see how they'd get uncomfortable if they were tighter

Well, let's just say I have a hard time finding hats.

I find the 280's to be too tight after a while too. The isolation is great and they're pretty amazing quality headphones for the money, but I tend to get about an hour or hour and a half out of them before a headache starts developing.

Closed headphones in general tend to be less comfortable than open ones; the necessity for the tight seal means they have to clamp down harder. The 600s are open, and I can wear them all day without discomfort. Because I can still hear outside sound, I actually forget I have them on. The cord rapidly disabuses me of that notion, should I get up.

The Sennheiser 400 series that was mentioned in another thread (hopefully it wasn't this one) looks to be available too. That's another sub-$100 consideration.

LiquidMantis wrote:

The Sennheiser 400 series that was mentioned in another thread (hopefully it wasn't this one) looks to be available too. That's another sub-$100 consideration.

This thread, previous page.

With my new build on the way. I was hoping for two recommendations. First, I wanted to know which sound cards do you all use under Win 7 x64. Second, for 5.1 phones it is a toss-up between the Medussa Pro Gamers and this set from Turtle Beach. Am I overlooking any sets.

I had the older model TB headset some ears ago, but I had to return them because I got a lot of interference over my sound chip.

Just to add them to the conversation, if you are looking for excellent quality, open, low cost headphones, check out Grado's SR80. They run around $100 and you'll have to spend near twice that to get better sound.

For a nice breakdown of headphones by price point, check out good cans.

Poking around there Oso, those look more like phones for recording artists, editors, and musicians, not so much for someone just wanting to play games.

Got my Total Bithead amp today as well as my new Sennheiser MX-560 earbuds, for my ipod touch.

First up was the MX560's - tried some Dire Straits on my stock ipod buds, then put the 560's on, and noticed a huge improvement. Nothing mindblowing, but a big step up from the stock crap buds. Definitely nice sound for $25.

Now for the main event - the Total Bithead (TBH)

Setup:

* Sennheiser HD-595's.

* Foobar2000

* .FLAC audio source

The amp install was, uh, plug it in ... done. It automatically installed itself, and automatically took over control of Windows sound. Had to go into foobar's settings and change the audio source to the TBH.

First up was some Black Sabbath, song 'Black Sabbath' - and my impression -- hmm, well it sounds the same! (as playing from the X-Fi). Also the volume, turned all the way up on the TBH was sufficient, but not as high as I sometimes go with it.

Then I RTFM -- under the battery cover is the "make the TBH awesome" switch, also known as "high gain". Once I flipped that switch, this thing went from 'ok' to 'kicks ass'. The Talking Head's 'Burning Down the House' was amazing. So much more punch and bass response than the X-Fi. Crystal clear clarity as well.

I'm now listening to Radiohead's 'Amnesiac' album, and wow. With high gain turned on, I can't even turn it up all the way anymore... too loud. Amnesiac is a great album for testing bass response too. I know the 595's are not the bass-masters of the headphone world by any stretch, but this is a helluva lot better than straight off the X-Fi.

my god this is nice!

Got good cans? get a good amp!

Jeff-66 wrote:

Got good cans? get a good amp!

Words to live by.

Damn, I've been doing it wrong my whole life. I get amped by good cans.