Gears & Beers Fridays

Mystic Violet wrote:

Mandatory thread title change:

Gears 2 and 2 Much B*tching - Double the QQ, Half the Pew Pew!

:D

Damn, tough crowd! You're right though - much of this is just nostalgia.

I think the game is better than the first. I don’t think the shotty is underpowered (I’ve popped many a head like a balloon) and I like the new Horde lancer whatever it’s called (it’s different enough from the lancer now and it’s useful). I think the story is interesting and I want to see how it comes out (I’m only just starting Act 4). I’ve run across some bugs/glitches in the Singleplayer, and for the amount of time that was put into this game they shouldn’t be there, but none were game breaking.

All in all, for someone who is not an expert at Gears Multi, I enjoy it much better. It’s fun now where it was painful at times before. I never stood a chance in Gears MP, and while I still suck, I am much better in Gears 2 because the controls and weapons have just been improved enough.

All in all, it gets my seal of approval.

Oh yeah, myself, Nimcosi, Firesloth, Killgore, and (starts with a C damn-it, I was tired and dru..inking so I can’t remember) beat 50 levels or Horde last nigh. Horde’s fun, can’t say I want to slug my way to 50 again. I would do it, but I won’t stay up until 5am this time (I think it took us 3 hours..?).

Shoal07 wrote:

Oh yeah, myself, Nimcosi, Firesloth, Killgore, and (starts with a C damn-it, I was tired and dru..inking so I can’t remember) beat 50 levels or Horde last nigh. Horde’s fun, can’t say I want to slug my way to 50 again. I would do it, but I won’t stay up until 5am this time (I think it took us 3 hours..?).

It was me (see 2 posts back).

I bailed at 2 am, so I didn't get all the way. Hmm...maybe I should have stayed.

CannibalCrowley wrote:

Horde mode is an insanely fun time sink. There's something wonderful about completing level 50 and then realizing that it's a quarter to five in the morning (which kind of sucks if you have to be up at eight).

I was interested in the ranking system that gears uses, so I stopped by Epic's forums. Let's just say that it wasn't pretty. At least one whiner posted his YouTube rant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jv--u...

If you got through more than 30 seconds of that, you are a better man than me.

ok, weekend tally for me 40+ hours on gears of war. Started 12:30 friday moning, played till like 11am sat morning. Got back on around 9:00pm sat night and played till about 2pm. I officially put in more gaming time this week than I did the last 2 months.

After hosting (and Shotgun whoring) on Saturday night I have one of 2 assumptions that I'm going with.

1.Danjo is right and Host Advantage is still alive and well, just masked to make things look like they happen a second later for everyone.
The only problem I see with that is how does the game differentiate between the amount of lag for different players. Say pneuman is playing from Australia, I'm East Coast, and KrazyTaco is in Hawaii. How would the game make it look like everything happens at the same time for us when we've all got different amounts of lag.
Of course, there are things that seem to prove this "lag-masking" theory correct, too, like that fact that you can hear a person in the "dead room" a second before they are dead on the screen.

or

2.The Shotgun is not broken, its just different. You must aim before firing. And you kind of have to sneak around with it now, instead of running head first into the fight.

There is probably a little truth to both of these things, but, one thing does remain true. The chainsaw is overpowered. There was such a drastic change between my ability to shotgun between hosting and not hosting, though, that I'd probably have to put my money on some sort of Host Advantage being in this game.

I'll have to get online with you guys and check (got really sick instead), but from the single-player, it seems that bullets aren't quite as useful, across the board. The shotgun wasn't as effective as in 1, so I tried the Lancer, which didn't really seem to be doing much good either. Tried the new Hammerburst and didn't feel much better.

Anyone else noticing that it's harder to kneecap now, as well?

Mystic Violet wrote:

Honestly, I have a hard time believing that the shotgun is underpowered too. I think the shotty users are use to having the advantage. In Gears 1, a shotgun rush was a simple thing to pull off and these guys would end matches with a kill count in the teens or higher without host advantage.

I think that was originally true in 1, but it changed considerably when they tweaked up the Lancer and nerfed the shotgun. I had to get a lot more careful.

My only complaints so far...

1) I agree with everyone else, the chainsaw is crazy powerful now. I wouldn't complain if bullets could stop or significantly delay my oncoming evisceration. But apparently the chainsaw can't be stopped, so I'm complaining.

2) I miss sh**-talking between the teams in between rounds.

3) Everything in Gears 1 gave you a real sense violence, by contrast a lot of the sequel seems to have lost its punch. Executions seem a lot less visceral. Partly I think it's the sound effects and the lag-masking, but I also think the graphics look a little more plastic and less gritty.

And last but not least...

4) Danjo's voice connection sucks.

#2 is seriously weird. The victors of every round should be greeted by the dead people screaming "OOOHHHH!" as the final opponent is blown to bits.

skeletonframes wrote:

1.Danjo is right and Host Advantage is still alive and well, just masked to make things look like they happen a second later for everyone.

How bad? Last time it put a swift end to my Gears online time. Too many other great online shooters to waste time with bad network code.

So the private game system sucks.

3 lobbies are not necessary.

Public matches are must faster if you can geuss what game type people are joining.

I have found a lone person and a full group go quickly but 2 or 3 it sits for a while.

I found it funny when it was pointed out to me...

"They made the shotgun a peice of junk" - me (gears 2)

"Why is it that every public game I play just becomes a shotgun fest. I like using my lancer but you can't out do the shotgun charge. The shotgun is just too overpowered!) - me (gears 1)

"My god you I smacked you like 4 times and you wouldn't fall down! You just turned around and chainsawed me in the middle of getting the carp kicked out of you!" - me (gears 2)

"I hate the fact that all these shooters seem to think an elbow to the face hurts more than a buttet to the gut. I would much rather let sombody beat me with their fists for 5 minutes than take a single bullet. When are shooters gonna be more realistic about this?" - me (gears 1)

What I have learned...

1. I am an idiot
2. The game isn't broken, it's fixed and your broken from your old game.
3. Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it!

Now I need to spend the time to actually get good at this game and just enjoy it.

BTW I do agree with the death chat area comments. I found myself saddened when I would pull off some mirical at the end of a round that I didn't get to hear the rest of the rooms reaction. I would just sit there lone survivor waiting for the next round with nobody to talk to. And people don't want totalk about the last round during the current one. It just seems to take away from the experience.

Shoal07 wrote:
Mystic Violet wrote:

Mandatory thread title change:

Gears 2 and 2 Much B*tching - Double the QQ, Half the Pew Pew!

:D

Damn, tough crowd! You're right though - much of this is just nostalgia.

I think the game is better than the first. I don’t think the shotty is underpowered (I’ve popped many a head like a balloon)

Honestly, I have a hard time believing that the shotgun is underpowered too. I think the shotty users are use to having the advantage. In Gears 1, a shotgun rush was a simple thing to pull off and these guys would end matches with a kill count in the teens or higher without host advantage. Now we have Gears 2. So... What is a shotgun wielder suppose to do when the lancer works as intended? What is a shotgun wielder suppose to do when they hit off-center? What is a shotgun wielder suppose to do when they hit the target and the enemy doesn't immediately explode? What is a shotgun wielder suppose to do when the damage dealt to a close target is not equal to the damage dealt to one much farther away (no more shotty snipers)?

I wonder what the ideal shotgun would be then. It's a mid to close range weapon so if you screw up, you're in a bad position. Should one close range shot always make the enemies explode into tiny pieces? Can a instant kill always be expected from blind fire or would it make sense to aim more often? I've heard that aiming even for a split second makes a world of difference. I'll have to try it.

With that said, I have a very simple description of the default weapons in Gears 2:

- Chainsaw is the new Shotgun.

- Shotgun is the new Lancer.

wordsmythe wrote:
Mystic Violet wrote:

Honestly, I have a hard time believing that the shotgun is underpowered too. I think the shotty users are use to having the advantage. In Gears 1, a shotgun rush was a simple thing to pull off and these guys would end matches with a kill count in the teens or higher without host advantage.

I think that was originally true in 1, but it changed considerably when they tweaked up the Lancer and nerfed the shotgun. I had to get a lot more careful.

Yeah, but then they went back and weakened the Lancer. When the Lancer was actually working properly after one of the updates, people b*tched on the Epic forums that the Lancer was overpowered because it was downing people before they could get their Shotgun into my face. Soon afterward, we received another update and the Lancer stopped working. So we went back to square one where all anyone did was Shotgun rush and the Lancer did jack. The only Lancer to fear in Gears 1 is Host Lancer.

Mystic Violet wrote:

Yeah, but then they went back and weakened the Lancer. When the Lancer was actually working properly after one of the updates, people b*tched on the Epic forums that the Lancer was overpowered because it was downing people before they could get their Shotgun into my face. Soon afterward, we received another update and the Lancer stopped working. So we went back to square one where all anyone did was Shotgun rush and the Lancer did jack. The only Lancer to fear in Gears 1 is Host Lancer.

Hrmmm... I never felt like it was way out of balance. If you had a teammate firing with you for even a second or two, then you could down someone very quickly.

Staats wrote:

#2 is seriously weird. The victors of every round should be greeted by the dead people screaming "OOOHHHH!" as the final opponent is blown to bits.

That was a big part of the entertainment, the reactions to the final kills. Especially, for instance, on the *ahem* "rare" occasions when the last member of the opposing team has been downed and Inigo takes advantage of the lull in the action to blow off the heads of his own team members with the sniper rifle.

turbocopland wrote:
Staats wrote:

#2 is seriously weird. The victors of every round should be greeted by the dead people screaming "OOOHHHH!" as the final opponent is blown to bits.

That was a big part of the entertainment, the reactions to the final kills. Especially, for instance, on the *ahem* "rare" occasions when the last member of the opposing team has been downed and Inigo takes advantage of the lull in the action to blow off the heads of his own team members with the sniper rifle.

This would be so much nicer with this installment now that friendly fire includes tagging your team along with some other new improvements.

Maybe we should start a GWJers petition to change the in-between round chat back, or at least make it an option. I nominate Inigo to lead the charge.

I'm too busy saving the world with web and print design

I hadn't played enough gears 2 online to notice that the between round chat is gone. That makes me sad

ChrisLTD wrote:

My only complaints so far...
4) Danjo's voice connection sucks.

Only in the lobby. Once feet hit the ground it's fine.

*Legion* wrote:
skeletonframes wrote:

1.Danjo is right and Host Advantage is still alive and well, just masked to make things look like they happen a second later for everyone.

How bad? Last time it put a swift end to my Gears online time. Too many other great online shooters to waste time with bad network code.

I honestly can't give you a straight answer at this point. I can't pin down exactly how the lag is hidden, and it is hidden, so it's very difficult to determine the extent to which it's affecting player performance. This may become more understood after we put more hours into the multiplayer. Our Aussie Goodjers may be able to figure this out faster as the hiding mechanism is unlikely to work well at their pings. How it breaks down for them may reveal how the lag is represented.

Regarding the shotgun, my very first round in the game I took out the entire opposing team using just the shotgun, mostly without aiming. My guess is that the new shotgun puts out less damage pellets in a more random (not necessarily wider) spread, so you're gambling a bit with every shot. The odds of one of those pellets intersecting a head has dropped, but the sum damage output per shot hasn't. That's the hypothesis I'm rocking at the moment, anyway. Time may tell.

Moving on. Complaint for the day: Smoke spamming. I liked it better when it was just a visibility thing. Now it's just annoying. The only thing that should take me out of the fight is death.

Danjo Olivaw wrote:

Moving on. Complaint for the day: Smoke spamming. I liked it better when it was just a visibility thing. Now it's just annoying. The only thing that should take me out of the fight is death.

I have to disagree there. I really like the new smoke grenades. They do a better job of obscuring stuff, and if you're lucky they're also disorienting.

Most importantly, it should make it harder for teams to turtle and win the match since a well placed smoke grenade can knock out a defending player for a few seconds.

ChrisLTD wrote:

Most importantly, it should make it harder for teams to turtle and win the match since a well placed smoke grenade can knock out a defending player for a few seconds.

My thoughts exactly. It's really nice to be able to force people to move. The smoke grenades are better at it than actual grenades!

I think the spamming will die down as time goes on. Respawn games are generally bad about grenade spamming (COD4 spam 3x!), but I think players will start hold onto grenades for key moments instead of going for the early lucky kill.

Is the between-round chat really gone? I thought it was in there in Wingman and Warzone/Execution. Or am I thinking of chat between games rather than between rounds?

For me, Gears 2 is definitely a smoother online experience than the first. The lag is still a pain of course, but it doesn't seem quite as bad -- shots seem a bit more true, for instance, so I don't have to worry quite so much about leading them. The chainsaw is a killer, though. I guess Epic tried to balance the enhanced chainsaw by implementing stopping power and the chainsaw duels, but stopping power doesn't work so well when the bullets are in the air for an extra second before hitting, and I almost always lose duels, so I'm guessing they haven't entirely accounted for lag in those.

I've had a lot of trouble with the shotgun, too. I used to have some luck with the shotgun just getting up close and aiming roughly where I thought the enemy would be in a second's time, but with the greater accuracy required now it hasn't been working so well.

I can't bitch too much though -- I know my insistence on playing with you guys is a bit of a corner-case in the world of online gaming, and I'm happy enough to deal. It's just an adjustment, and I'm sure within a couple of weeks we'll all have made that adjustment and quit our bitching. Well, until the first title update

Staats wrote:

My thoughts exactly. It's really nice to be able to force people to move. The smoke grenades are better at it than actual grenades!

I think the spamming will die down as time goes on. Respawn games are generally bad about grenade spamming (COD4 spam 3x!), but I think players will start hold onto grenades for key moments instead of going for the early lucky kill.

Has anyone played Worms. This is the exact tactic for the banana bomb. Don't use it until the other team has forgotten that you still have it, then wait for them to open themselves up for it. Maybe Gears 2 is focusing more on team strategy and we're all still lone gunmen.

edit: and the smoke grenade makes Gridlock a completely different map. For the better.

I have to say I love the new smoke gernade!!! as well as the overall gernade improvements (wall tagging). I love using them as an early warning system/defensive measure. Tag a wall or object near your area of defence and now you have backup!

I was playing friday night (I think) and I got into a 2 to 1 situation a few times. Sticking a few gernades to some doorways, picking up a few more an repeating the process saved my butt. I had essentally set 4 traps on the main passageways. So long as I remembered where I placed them, I was golden. Sure enough I got 2 kills without firing a shot!

ChrisLTD wrote:
Danjo Olivaw wrote:

Moving on. Complaint for the day: Smoke spamming. I liked it better when it was just a visibility thing. Now it's just annoying. The only thing that should take me out of the fight is death.

I have to disagree there. I really like the new smoke grenades. They do a better job of obscuring stuff, and if you're lucky they're also disorienting.

Most importantly, it should make it harder for teams to turtle and win the match since a well placed smoke grenade can knock out a defending player for a few seconds.

You're right, that's a good use of them. I guess it's just a little too early to see people hanging on to them past the five second mark of the match. Oh, and I LOVE the wall tagging. That's a huge game-changer. Anything that makes a game more like Splinter Cell Merc's is a good thing.

I've been meaning to hop on but have been so wrapped up in Fallout 3 lately. I hope to see you guys tonight!

I am seriously not digging the lobby system. Too much time not playing, and our practice of carefully crafting even teams through a session has disappeared.

Hmm... I've only played a smidge of multiplayer. From the marketing I've heard things like "enriched the bare bones experience". I didn't think it was so bare bones... I hope they didn't break it. They've GOT to put voice chat into the common lobby after a game. It's a private game Epic. If you didn't want to talk to the people you invited you wouldn't have invited them.

EDIT: Sorry for not being around the forums at all lately. I've been on media blackout from Fallout and Gears both and the temptation to click on those spoilery threads is always so powerful. Now, after messing with Gears a bit and putting about 30 hours into Fallout I'm back. Prepare to be underwelmed!