XBLA Catch-Much: Farewell to XBLA

My point was not about the importance of graphics, it was about the fallacy of taking general statements to ridiculous extremes in order to disprove them.

"Gas mileage is my most important factor in choosing a new car." "So you'd buy a car that couldn't go above thirty miles per hour and had no windshield if it got good mileage?"

Dreaded Gazebo wrote:

I tried out a bit of the Limbo demo last night and wasn't entirely sold. Love the art style and atmosphere but I didn't realize it was a trial-and-death-error game. Yeah, it restarts you pretty quickly right where you died but I was not at all expecting that style of game.

I'll have to give it another shot when I'm in the right mindset for it. Would hate to miss out on a great game but it may not be for me.

I'm about half way through and I think I may have decided it's not for me. The trial and error is annoying. I really hate the mechanics. The jumping is too much like littlebigplanet. The puzzle design doesn't seem clever. It just seems intentional obtuse. I haven't had too much trouble figuring them out, I just am turned off by puzzle that are basically impossible to figure out on the first try. There are time where they force you into failure. It may seem like I'm nitpicking, but I am also totally taken out of the experience by little inconsistency in the game's logic or maybe's it's just how I'm interpreting the game's logic. But it doesn't make sense that a little boy who can push around logs and climb up ropes would die in water that is barely head high, or that a brain slug thing that controls your movement doesn't do so when you are on a ladder.

I think what it comes down do is an aversion I have to strictly linear games that set up contrived obstacles that only be overcome in one specific way. It's the reason why I couldn't make it through more than half of Uncharted 2 either.

Made it through the game in 1hour1minute with 7 deaths. (3 of which were pretty stupid)

That last achievement is as good as mine.

4xis.black wrote:

I am more concerned about the precedent it sets. I am willing to spend $15 on Limbo, but what happens when people start charging $70 for a <10 hour experience? Considering all the money I have to invest in the multiple consoles and peripherals before I can even get at the games themselves, those numbers could end up draining any cost efficiency the hobby may have had and making me question whether I really want to spend that much on stuff that almost as a rule fails to transcend the realm of escapist entertainment.

Wouldn't you expect a raise after five years? The cost of stuff goes up. Movies cost more than they did ten years ago. Games will cost more in ten years then they do now. It's not about "setting precedents." I'd have paid $50 for Limbo, and enjoyed it, just like I've spent $100 or more for concert tickets that I loved more than any game.

TheCounselor wrote:

Wouldn't you expect a raise after five years? The cost of stuff goes up. Movies cost more than they did ten years ago. Games will cost more in ten years then they do now. It's not about "setting precedents." I'd have paid $50 for Limbo, and enjoyed it, just like I've spent $100 or more for concert tickets that I loved more than any game.

Stuff goes up, but the rates of change are troubling. From my personal perspective, costs are increasing in increments of $5 and $10 in software and hundreds in hardware while the games themselves are delivering me fewer game-hours but oftentimes no greater concentration of good stuff (because again, from my perspective, I simply don't value most of the stuff into which developers are sinking their budgets). This causes me to reevaluate my spending habits, is all I'm saying. Limbo itself strikes me as a good economical game that hopefully found lots of savings in its art style, but I do wish they would have expanded the scope just a little bit more to make that $15 watermark.

I finished it yesterday night. For me the experience went downhill somewhat towards the end, when it started getting away from the minimalist narrative elements and the tense gameplay sequences like:

Spoiler:

The hostile tribal guys (I wanna know more about this world and those guys!) and the awesomely creepy spider level

and settled into a comfortable sort of physicsy-platformy-indie thing. Looking back, I feel like I could have easily skipped it without missing anything momentous, but I am fond of the Summer of Arcade initiative and it's good to bolster those launch-week numbers for indies. It was better than Winterbottom by virtue of its opening sequences, but in the end it is sort of the same deal; a good solid addendum to the post-Braid platforming genre that does its best to use every part of the animal, hopefully not costing too much to make and will hopefully cost a little less to buy in the future.

TheCounselor wrote:

Wouldn't you expect a raise after five years? The cost of stuff goes up. Movies cost more than they did ten years ago. Games will cost more in ten years then they do now. It's not about "setting precedents." I'd have paid $50 for Limbo, and enjoyed it, just like I've spent $100 or more for concert tickets that I loved more than any game.

With the way the economy has been going, my company had to cut people's salaries for a year, then finally reinstate them, but, no raises for the past 2 years and it doesn't look like any in the coming year. Sad part is, they know it is bad out there and they've more or less got us. Gas and food has gone up, so I'd appreciate even a cost of living raise.

As for Limbo, well, with my EGADD, things take me months to finish anyway

Cragmyre wrote:

With the way the economy has been going, my company had to cut people's salaries for a year, then finally reinstate them, but, no raises for the past 2 years and it doesn't look like any in the coming year. Sad part is, they know it is bad out there and they've more or less got us. Gas and food has gone up, so I'd appreciate even a cost of living raise.

As for Limbo, well, with my EGADD, things take me months to finish anyway :)

Good news! The recession probably ended in the second quarter of 2009, so if the economy is to blame for your company's struggles, then you should expect to see a raise sooner than you think.

My point still stands, however. People expect periodic raises at their jobs. Prices for things go up. Games are much better now than they were twenty years ago, but cost much less. The sky isn't falling, and the good old days weren't that what we remember.

I was going to write something about the idea of "value" in video games, then realized I already did way back in November of last year. This is copied from the comments on Elysium's Dirge For The Sinking Ship article.

skeletonframes wrote:

I posted my thoughts, roundabout ways, in the CC thread. I'll sum them up here: It's silly to expect something for nothing due to our percieved notion of our gaming-dollar's value.

I'd also like to add that our wallets will always speak louder than our mouths to publishers. If you like Dragon Age you can tell Bioware, all year, how great they are. That's all for naught if you don't buy the game and support the developer.

The video game industry, more than most others, is full of percieved value. A car that costs more to make costs more to purchase. We are buying an experience more than a physical object with a solid value. It is up to us to decide if that experience is worth our money. Even if Modern Warfare 2 cost millions more to make than Scene It: Box Office Smash they both have the same retail value. They are both worth the money to different people.

Excitebike was $50 new in 1986. Forza 3 is $60 new in 2009. The price to create games has increased by miles, while the price to purchase them has increased by inches. I, for one, consider myself lucky to be getting the quality of game for price that this generation is providing.

I will continue to speak loudly with my wallet. I will hold my credit card high as I add to my 400 dl'd Rock Band songs. I purchased Warden's Keep before I even booted up the game. I bought the Forza: CE. I support these publishers because what I'm getting is worth it, to me.

When video game prices rise higher than my percieved value, I will shut my wallet. Companies don't respond to 'thank yous', they respond to dollars. It's your choice what you're going to say with yours.

I've yet to be disappointed with a Summer of Arcade game yet, and I own all eleven so far. Well, maybe Turtles in Time sucked a bit, but Microsoft reimbursed me for that one.

I'm pretty pissed at myself. Got all the way through Limbo with zero deaths......until, the last 2 puzzles. I panicked and died 6 six times. I hate me, right now.

Hydro Thunder is looking pretty awesome for the literal "arcade" title.

stevenmack wrote:

About the ending:

Spoiler:

Love the way that the game ends at the exact same point as the title screen, except everything is fixed, wheras on the title screen the tree-house and ladder are broken and there are two ominous clouds of flies hovering over the exact same spots where they end up standing at the end.

Wow, definitely did NOT catch that. Thanks for pointing it out!

Clemenstation wrote:
stevenmack wrote:

About the ending:

Spoiler:

Love the way that the game ends at the exact same point as the title screen, except everything is fixed, wheras on the title screen the tree-house and ladder are broken and there are two ominous clouds of flies hovering over the exact same spots where they end up standing at the end.

Wow, definitely did NOT catch that. Thanks for pointing it out!

That is pretty interesting. I wonder if it does mean something? This is the type of game that, it would be disappointing if there was no clear underlying meaning. I already posted a theory of mine in the Limbo main page article, but I'd be interested to know what you guys think of it.

Also, there are lots of screenshots from before the game came out that are nowhere to be found in the finished product. Beta? Cut puzzles? DLC? Sequel? Never see these levels? Who knows.

skeletonframes wrote:

That is pretty interesting. I wonder if it does mean something? This is the type of game that, it would be disappointing if there was no clear underlying meaning. I already posted a theory of mine in the Limbo main page article, but I'd be interested to know what you guys think of it.

I am intrigued by your theory and would like to subscribe to your newsletter. Please see review thread for related query!

I'm copy and pasting my thoughts from the review thread for those of you mangy beasts who don't give the front page enough love. smooches.

skeletonframes wrote:
Clemenstation wrote:
skeletonframes wrote:

Just finished the game.

Spoiler:

Is it about a boy who tried, but couldn't save his little sister from drowning?

I'd be curious to know why you think that's the case. Is it because

Spoiler:

The final puzzle has you diving into 'water', and then you find her safe and sound afterwards?

Spoiler:

But is she safe and sound? Notice you never see her eyes. You know when the boy dies because his eyes close. Everything evil in the world of Limbo is distinguished by no white eyes. The boy stops as the little girl stiffens up at the end. There is no real cue to the player that the girl will be saved. You never actually get closer to the girl than the first time you see her, when she disappears.

There is so much imagery of water and wilderness. At one point, you even see a body floating in the background as if suspended in water. It's around the "enemy tribe" chapters. One of the very first things you do is ride a boat. And the end. It seems like you crash into water and slowly float to the surface of the grass.

In fact, the more I think about it, I think the game is about a drowning boy. Not a boy that is trying to save his drowning sister.

The whole story could take place in the unconsciousness of the drowning boy. When you dream, the things you did prior to falling asleep usually find their way into your dream. Perhaps that is why you start in the woods. Maybe he fell out of a boat? Maybe he was playing in the woods with his sister and that is why, while unconscious, he feels the need to find her. His mind might be telling him to find his sister, like its a way out of this world. In real life maybe he can hear her calling out to him, in the distance, from above the water. His subconscious can be applying this to his dreamlike state.

The enemies and levels of the game could be taken straight out a young boy's nightmares. Giant insects, tree-forts and tribesmen, mind controlling slugs...

The parts that seem to take place in a silhouetted New York could be the boy's memories of his home.

The boy, also, doesn't seem to even try to fight when he falls in water. He immediately gives up and drowns. The anti-gravity parts at the end could also be attributed to his body feeling the effects of floating in the water. You know, like if you fall asleep in a car and the driver has to swerve really fast, it affects what happens in your dream. Or how an alarm going off or a phone ringing can find its way into your dream.

The boy could even be saved from drowning. Maybe someone gave him CPR and brings him back from the brink. Perhaps that is why he finally reaches his sister at the end, and the game ends so abruptly, like someone waking from a dream.

This could explain why the game is called "Limbo". Isn't limbo the place between the living world and death?

I can't place the machine world in this theory, though.

I KNEW there had to be a catch-all type thread for Limbo somewhere...

Anyway, not for me. The creepy spider sealed the deal.

What's this week's tease? Anything new on sale?

Achievement Unlocked. No Point In Dying - Complete the game in one sitting with five or less deaths. 3 deaths for me. Thank you Thank you.

skeletonframes wrote:

Achievement Unlocked. No Point In Dying - Complete the game in one sitting with five or less deaths. 3 deaths for me. Thank you Thank you.

That is really impressive.

Finished the game on Friday night and am not sure how many times I died but it felt like allot. I loved every second of it and looking forward to what this developer puts out next. I don't see myself going for the 5 or less deaths achievement but I'm going to spend a little time looking for the eggs I missed.

Mister Magnus wrote:

What's this week's tease? Anything new on sale?

Hydro Thunder

Anyway, not for me. The creepy spider sealed the deal.

You think the creepy spider in the demo is bad...I bought the full game last night and what happens with that spider is truly horrifying. The game is great. So visceral and beautiful.

Hydro Thunder Hurricane is out today. Let's just say it's an arcade title in name, execution, and feel. No Forza Watersport here. Still a great title!

Finally got around to checking out the Limbo demo ... the term "atmospheric" gets thrown around a lot, but this game can really set a mood. I am really impressed, I'm sure I'll end up buying the whole game at some point.

Is it even possible to get past the Spider in the demo?

AcidCat wrote:

Is it even possible to get past the Spider in the demo?

Yes.

Spoiler:

Dodge one of the spider's attacks, then go back to the left to find that the bear trap has fallen out of the tree. Drag the bear trap over to the spider. Get the spider to attack you, but move and drag the bear trap into the place where you were. This will injure the spider. Repeat this until the spider leaves.

skeletonframes wrote:

Achievement Unlocked. No Point In Dying - Complete the game in one sitting with five or less deaths. 3 deaths for me. Thank you Thank you.

Skeletonframes, you saucy Female Doggo!

Spoiler:
Repeat this until the spider leaves.
Spoiler:

Oh, but then he comes back. DOES he come back. His final moment is so viscerally repugnant.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

Yes.

Ah, thanks.

Well i really enjoyed the XLBA arcade ,although i never came across the hurdles while playing the NBA jam ,its been one of my favorite fixtures and even i prefer playing some sports games

I am also looking for some more diverse games,sya shooting and racing like such.

Thanks : http://www.dozensports.com

apeterson wrote:

Well i really enjoyed the XLBA arcade ,although i never came across the hurdles while playing the NBA jam ,its been one of my favorite fixtures and even i prefer playing some sports games

I am also looking for some more diverse games,sya shooting and racing like such.

Thanks : http://www.dozensports.com

Great insight! I don't come across hurdles that often either!

?

Differently-abled sports fan or savvy PR shill in training?

You be the judge!

NBA Jam... Is that even out? ...or did EA/Midway ported the '90s version to XBLA?

Nei wrote:

NBA Jam... Is that even out? ...or did EA/Midway ported the '90s version to XBLA?

It's a Wii-exclusive title set to be released later this year. However, the German equivalent of the ESRB recently rated 360 an PS3 versions of the game, and the ESRB itself briefly posted ratings on its website for downloadable versions of the game for 360 and PS3.