You say Police State, I say potato. Either way let's discuss surveillance and government overreach.

ruhk wrote:
KingGorilla wrote:

By the transitive theory, this is the single greatest threat to American lives at the hands of Drones.

There was a company in San Francisco not too long ago that wanted to deliver Mexican food via drones. The FAA pretty quickly put a stop to it.

The TacoCopter! Turned out it was a hoax, though. But I did hear about two college engineers that got the idea for a Burrito Bomber from the TacoCopter deal.

Minarchist wrote:

Password hunting time?

Criminy. There is literally nothing they can't get away with right now. Time to setup that offshore email account and start killing US accounts.

DSGamer wrote:
Minarchist wrote:

Password hunting time?

Criminy. There is literally nothing they can't get away with right now. Time to setup that offshore email account and start killing US accounts.

I missed the part where this went from Cnet's normal FUD to the NSA actually just getting handed any password that they please as opposed to from the grand jury or a judge.

KingGorilla wrote:

I missed the part where this went from Cnet's normal FUD to the NSA actually just getting handed any password that they please.

Did you miss the part where the government is asking for passwords that it has no business having?

DSGamer wrote:
Minarchist wrote:

Password hunting time?

Criminy. There is literally nothing they can't get away with right now. Time to setup that offshore email account and start killing US accounts.

Unless you encrypt your email with PGP, that's not going to do anything.

Edwin wrote:
DSGamer wrote:
Minarchist wrote:

Password hunting time?

Criminy. There is literally nothing they can't get away with right now. Time to setup that offshore email account and start killing US accounts.

Unless you encrypt your email with PGP, that's not going to do anything.

Of course. And even at that there's a copy of any email in the wild. I'm speaking more about voting with dollars, feet, etc.

MyBrainHz wrote:
KingGorilla wrote:

I missed the part where this went from Cnet's normal FUD to the NSA actually just getting handed any password that they please.

Did you miss the part where the government is asking for passwords that it has no business having?

Investigators and law enforcement ask for many things. What makes you think they cannot ask? There exists a big gap between asking and compelling or forcing to turn over. They ask to enter houses all the time, even yell it-the place with the absolute greatest degree of security and constitutional protection. It is amazing what officials get by asking nicely. NSA asks encryption company for passwords, supposedly the company denies that request. In 2 criminal cases, judges reach conflicting rulings on whether a person has to turn over their own password. That is bad and congressional or Supreme Court intervention is needed.

Minarchist wrote:

So I'm sure most readers of this thread have seen this ridiculous story by now. Reason notes a bit why it's important.

Yeah, this is the kind of sh*t that lends weight to the argument that we are legitimately moving in the direction of a police state.

My turn for a link dump!

The ACLU is suing the US for declaring a 100-mile zone inside the US border for warrantless stops-and-searches regarding citizenship.

Police use Occupy protestors as experimental guinea pigs.

White House "welcomes a debate" about NSA civil liberties violations while actively suppressing said debate.

St. Louis police chief asks FAA for drones "To help keep officers safe, to help keep the community safe"

One more evidence planting, just for fun:

KingGorilla wrote:

Investigators and law enforcement ask for many things. What makes you think they cannot ask? There exists a big gap between asking and compelling or forcing to turn over.

I acknowledge that the government can ask for literally anything it wants. At issue is whether the government should be asking in the first place.

IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/Wiwx76g.jpg)

Cos Edwin

MyBrainHz wrote:
KingGorilla wrote:

Investigators and law enforcement ask for many things. What makes you think they cannot ask? There exists a big gap between asking and compelling or forcing to turn over.

I acknowledge that the government can ask for literally anything it wants. At issue is whether the government should be asking in the first place.

Also there's a problem when the government has a history of forbidding the companies from telling anyone that they've even been asked, let alone what they asked for.

MyBrainHz wrote:
KingGorilla wrote:

Investigators and law enforcement ask for many things. What makes you think they cannot ask? There exists a big gap between asking and compelling or forcing to turn over.

I acknowledge that the government can ask for literally anything it wants. At issue is whether the government should be asking in the first place.

The other issue (or at least the one that may be behind MrBrainz original point) is that the government asking you for something carries a certain amount of inertia (that is probably the wrong word for it) behind it that does not exist if someone else were to ask for the same thing (they can put you in jail, fine you, look into your taxes, etc, etc, etc). The government asking Google for this type of information isn't much an issue because Google has a bodily mass (to continue my flawed analogy) that is enough to withstand this type of request. However, if these requests are made to some small time operator whose legal team isn't ready for this (and is subject to a gag order), that operator may very well cave and turn over those passwords.

In short, in an ideal world their is a big gap because everyone knows they don't have to turn that stuff over on the whim of the government. However, in the current reality, the gap narrows because of all the other levers the government can pull if you are being uncooperative.

I am not aware of a state that does not require a licensed business to also maintain legal compliance, IE knowledge of relevant laws and a vetted business plan to obey such laws.

Solo practicing doctors and large hospital systems have to adhere to the same laws at the same level, so the small town doctor does not get a pass on HIPAA.

And a failure to maintain compliance can result in criminal sanctions in the states I am aware of-IE, you register your company with a plan of compliance but you ignore it.

There are genuine issues with the wide berth that the NSA has been given by congress, with numerous holes in the US constitution regarding technology, the status of non paper communications, the rendering of private businesses immune from traditional civil liability, this prolonged period of martial law, and so forth.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...

A top secret National Security Agency program allows analysts to search with no prior authorization through vast databases containing emails, online chats and the browsing histories of millions of individuals, according to documents provided by whistleblower Edward Snowden.
jibboom wrote:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...

A top secret National Security Agency program allows analysts to search with no prior authorization through vast databases containing emails, online chats and the browsing histories of millions of individuals, according to documents provided by whistleblower Edward Snowden.

I don't think this is new news. Or surprising news. Just the scope of it is stunning. And the relative lack of outrage.

@tim_is_win

Hilarious.

Careful what you Google, lest the all-knowing State descend upon you from on high:

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2013/08/government-knocking-doors-because-google-searches/67864/

Well, there's definitely no legitimate reason to google search for backpacks and/or pressure cookers. Carry on, citizens.

MyBrainHz wrote:

Careful what you Google, lest the all-knowing State descend upon you from on high:

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2013/08/government-knocking-doors-because-google-searches/67864/

I actually just came here to post that myself (yes, I saw the headline on Slashdot).

Good thing I get news alerts on Russia and I'm actively re-learning to be fluent again. That will make for a fun Google search profile given what the government is considering doing in reaction to Snowden getting to stay in Russia.

MyBrainHz wrote:

Careful what you Google, lest the all-knowing State descend upon you from on high:

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2013/08/government-knocking-doors-because-google-searches/67864/

The photo above is from the door-to-door sweep in Watertown at that time.

Ooh, that is kind of low.

Also, the lack of involvement with local law enforcement stinks all to high heaven. If you want to justify this as a safety program, you gotta play nice with the local smokeys.

They are cooperating with the locals, at least somewhat:

Local and state authorities work jointly with federal officials on terror investigations similar to the one Catalano describes. Both Suffolk and Nassau County's police departments are members of the FBI's Joint Terrorism Task Force (JTTF), Donald confirmed. Suffolk County is also home to a "fusion center," a regionally located locus for terror investigations associated with the Department of Homeland Security. It wasn't the JTTF that led to the visit at Catalano's house, Donald told us. The task force deputizes local authorities as federal marshals, including some in Suffolk and Nassau, who can then act on its behalf. But, Donald said, "officers, agents, or other representatives of the JTTF did not visit that location."

I'm not sure what disturbs me more: that this is a federal move or that you can look at the guys in that picture and how they're attired an not know if they're local or not.

DSGamer wrote:

Good thing I get news alerts on Russia and I'm actively re-learning to be fluent again. That will make for a fun Google search profile given what the government is considering doing in reaction to Snowden getting to stay in Russia.

Obama has lost all sense of proportion on the Snowden case. It's not worth berating Russia over a leaker.

http://techcrunch.com/2013/08/01/emp...

Or not..

In what might be Medium‘s first widespread Twitter moment, music writer Michele Catalano used the platform to blog details of an unexpected visit to her home yesterday, from six men she identifies as members of the “joint terrorism task force.”

Catalano asserts that the visit was likely prompted by her husband searching for the term “backpacks” in close conjunction with her searching for the term “pressure cookers.”

Turns out the visit was prompted by the searches, but not in the way most speculation asserted – by a law enforcement-initiated, NSA-enabled dragnet of the couple’s web history. It turns out either Catalano or her husband were conducting these searches from a work computer. And that employer, “a Bay Shore based computer company” called the police on their former employee.

XKeyscore Collects 'Nearly Everything A User Does On The Internet'

The administration insists, perhaps even accurately, that allegations of widespread, unchecked analyst access to NSA collection data are simply not true, and that there are many layers of technical and supervisory checks in place. (Although Edward Snowden sure seems to contradict that version.) But that's not really the point. Say this administration is followed by a paranoid president (say, Ted "The Anointed One" Cruz), with a system in place that allows him to gather private information on anyone who stands in his way, maybe because the Baby Jesus told him to. Are we to assume he wouldn't use it? Do we trust him not to? If it's there, sooner or later, someone will abuse it.

The latest Guardian release by Glenn Greenwald.


In wake of leaks, US intelligence pulls back the curtain on metadata collection. Highest US intel official declassifies three previously top-secret documents. [ArsTechnica]

You guys might want to start using alternative search engines from other companies in other countries. And have rotating IP addresses.

Not that it matters since SSL has been broken.

Gone in 30 seconds: New attack plucks secrets from HTTPS-protected pages. Exploit called BREACH bypasses the SSL crypto scheme protecting millions of sites. [ArsTechnica]


According to a new report by The Guardian, the American government has paid “at least £100 million [$152 million] to the UK spy agency GCHQ [Government Communications Headquarters] over the last three years to secure access to and influence over Britain's intelligence gathering programs.” [ArsTechnica]