JRPG Catch-All

So....how about that Lightning Returns trailer? Everyone's excited for another Final Fantasy XIII story with Lightning, right?

If they fixed the problems they introduced with FF XIII-2? Totes.

walterqchocobo wrote:
Everyone's excited for another Final Fantasy XIII story with Lightning, right?

The combat looked like a nice hybrid between ATB and KH/VSXIII, but the NPC models looked eh (could be footage from an early build). Not sure I care that much about the story/plot since I haven't played the previous ones.

shoptroll wrote:
Not sure I care that much about the story/plot since I haven't played the previous ones.

There was a story/plot?

walterqchocobo wrote:
shoptroll wrote:
Not sure I care that much about the story/plot since I haven't played the previous ones.

There was a story/plot?

Based on complaints I've heard that's ALL there was to the game, broken up by long and linear periods of walking through a "dungeon" getting into fights.

Not having played it myself, I wouldn't know.

So... when are we going to get a new main franchise Final Fantasy game that returns to more of the classic (i.e. FF 1-10) gameplay of the series?

ccesarano wrote:
walterqchocobo wrote:
shoptroll wrote:
Not sure I care that much about the story/plot since I haven't played the previous ones.

There was a story/plot?

Based on complaints I've heard that's ALL there was to the game, broken up by long and linear periods of walking through a "dungeon" getting into fights.

Not having played it myself, I wouldn't know.

While long and linear dungeons is fairly accurate, abstracting a game down to "getting into fights" really applies to almost every game.

ccesarano wrote:
walterqchocobo wrote:
shoptroll wrote:
Not sure I care that much about the story/plot since I haven't played the previous ones.

There was a story/plot?

Based on complaints I've heard that's ALL there was to the game, broken up by long and linear periods of walking through a "dungeon" getting into fights.

Not having played it myself, I wouldn't know.

Yup, this is why I prefer FFXIII-2 to FFXIII. However, a lot of people liked FFXIII because it was so different from the traditional ones, so it would be good for Lightning Returns to bring back the gameplay that fans of FFXIII enjoyed.

Kinda like how FFXII was very divisive for series fans as well (though fortunately for me, I really really love that one). That's why I'm hoping that the next main FF game returns to gameplay more like the classic series entries.

Farscry wrote:
So... when are we going to get a new main franchise Final Fantasy game that returns to more of the classic (i.e. FF 1-10) gameplay of the series?

Other than the turn-based nature of combat, gameplay radically differs from FF2-10 in pretty much each incarnation - is that all you're referring to?

walterqchocobo wrote:
shoptroll wrote:
Not sure I care that much about the story/plot since I haven't played the previous ones.

There was a story/plot?

Is that a rhetorical question? I'm just saying I have no investment in Lightning as a character (and her story by extension) since I haven't played through the previous games. So the premise of "Lightning Returns" has absolutely no bearing on my interest. However, the high point of the trailer for me was seeing the combat system which looks intriguing.

Farscry wrote:
That's why I'm hoping that the next main FF game returns to gameplay more like the classic series entries.

X was a pretty big departure from the rest of the franchise simply because they dropped ATB which had been a mainstay for nearly a decade. Also, given how drastic the games can be it's really hard to pin down a definition of "classic" gameplay for the franchise aside from things like airships and magic.

Of course, if you just want a new 16-bit styled FF game they've got you covered on iOS

Farscry wrote:
So... when are we going to get a new main franchise Final Fantasy game that returns to more of the classic (i.e. FF 1-10) gameplay of the series?

At this point I'd rather allow Squenix to evolve the mainline series as they will, since I think the old farts clammering for things to be back to the old way are a potential vocal minority. Plus, in some ways we'd be holding the genre back I imagine.

The way I see it if we want older style games then we should ask for them delivered in the form of new IP. Plus, it just makes more sense for those sorts of games to be released on smaller platforms. So when a game like Lost Odyssey or Radiant Historia or some such release, snatch them when you can.

I don't know if Final Fantasy 13 would be for me, but truth told I don't really care. A friend of mine tried to show me combat one day and all I could think of was the ActionButton.net review that started off discussing how FF13 is a game about numbers. Big numbers. Lots of numbers. That's all I really saw on the screen was numbers flying around and lots of colors.

But then again, my brother saw me playing Xenoblade at one point, about ten hours past the last time he saw me playing, and was like "What the f*ck is going on in this game?!" Maybe that's one of the reasons I really like The Last Story's combat in comparison. You have a general idea of what's going on just by watching, even if you don't catch all the nuances.

ccesarano wrote:
At this point I'd rather allow Squenix to evolve the mainline series as they will, since I think the old farts clammering for things to be back to the old way are a potential vocal minority. Plus, in some ways we'd be holding the genre back I imagine.

I think they've done a good job trying to thread the needle. They are trying to evolve the main series, but they're using projects like Dimensions, 4 Heroes of Light, and the occasional remake to keep the "old farts" like myself happy.

Of course, I'd love for them to contract Zeboyd or a similar developer for some official 16-bit demakes of VII and later. Of course, the chances of that happening are effectively zero

ccesarano wrote:
I don't know if Final Fantasy 13 would be for me, but truth told I don't really care. A friend of mine tried to show me combat one day and all I could think of was the ActionButton.net review that started off discussing how FF13 is a game about numbers. Big numbers. Lots of numbers. That's all I really saw on the screen was numbers flying around and lots of colors.

From what I've seen of Demyx playing lately (and my own 1 hour with the game), it's big numbers, that stagger meter, and mass job switching (aka Paradigms).

shoptroll wrote:
Of course, if you just want a new 16-bit styled FF game they've got you covered on iOS ;)

Let me see... nope, that's not playable on the 360 or PS3.

Tanglebones wrote:
Farscry wrote:
So... when are we going to get a new main franchise Final Fantasy game that returns to more of the classic (i.e. FF 1-10) gameplay of the series?

Other than the turn-based nature of combat, gameplay radically differs from FF2-10 in pretty much each incarnation - is that all you're referring to?

First, I'm not saying I want them to only do this. I'm saying I'd like to see the next FF entry do this. They can resume experimenting again after that, just throw a bone to the old farts like me every few entries in the franchise. Kinda like how they experimented with VII and VIII a bit, then made IX as a throwback, then resumed experimenting with X, XII, and XIII.

As for what I mean, I mean a mixture of:

*The turn-based (or pseudo-turn-based of ATB) combat
*Actual overworld maps to explore (which FFX did away with, to my disappointment)
*A broad cast of characters that we can preferably customize by learning skills/spells/whatever (FFV, VI, VII, VIII, IX, X, and XII did an outstanding job of this)
*Frequent moderately non-linear exploration. Notice that I said exploration there. The stories in every FF game have been wholly linear. And the general progression of exploration has been linear, whether through when they give you access to a general area via story progression, or via a new vehicle, or whatever. FFXIII-2 actually did this moderately well, returning exploration to be a little bit closer to the prior entries in the series (actually, XIII-2 did it very closely to how FFX did)

To give a good sense of what I mean, I'll point to Lost Odyssey. That game felt more like a traditional Final Fantasy game than FFXIII did.

And if all the old farts went and bought Lost Odyssey we might have a Lost Odyssey 2.

You know what I want from Squenix? To port the Final Fantasy 1 remake to 3DS eShop. I'd like playing that again, and while in high school and College I played it with the original difficulty implemented, I think I'd just like a game where you have swords that do extra damage to specific monsters, like the Ogre knife or Wolfsbane. That old D&D element that slowly died more and more as the series went on.

I feel like if I'm going to play one of those games I want it to be on my 3DS, not a console.

Farscry, I think the answer is to get a 3DS.

ccesarano wrote:
Farscry, I think the answer is to get a 3DS.

Assuming Nintendo decides to make the GBA Virtual Console a thing this year, and starts selling DS games through the eShop too... pretty much this. That should give you a lot of solid classic and modern JRPGs

Actually, from what little I've played of them, Farscry, you might find what you're looking for in the Dragon Quest series. You'll get slimes instead of chocobos, but the gameplay elements you're talking about are alive in full force in those games.

ccesarano wrote:
And if all the old farts went and bought Lost Odyssey we might have a Lost Odyssey 2. :P

Hey, I did my part for the cause!

ccesarano wrote:
You know what I want from Squenix? To port the Final Fantasy 1 remake to 3DS eShop. I'd like playing that again, and while in high school and College I played it with the original difficulty implemented, I think I'd just like a game where you have swords that do extra damage to specific monsters, like the Ogre knife or Wolfsbane. That old D&D element that slowly died more and more as the series went on.

I feel like if I'm going to play one of those games I want it to be on my 3DS, not a console.

Farscry, I think the answer is to get a 3DS.

I've got a 3DS and a Vita, and they get most of their use in the form of the great rpg's and strategy titles that have really had a sort of rennaissance on the DS and PSP over the last few years.

[Edit:]I've also gotten HEAVY mileage out of my DS, PSP, and GBA over those years.

But just like I enjoyed how FFIX took very classic gameplay and provided stunning presentation values for the time, I want to have the occasional experience like that on a full HD-display quality console release too. Dragon Quest 8 and Final Fantasy XII were THE highlights of my PS2-generation gaming, and I haven't been able to get that kind of experience on the current generation. Lost Odyssey was nice, but it was no DQ8/FFXII. Xenoblade is fantastic, and I fully expect to love Last Story, but their presentation values are closer to the PS2-generation than the current generation. That doesn't make them lesser games, but it does mean that I still haven't gotten out of the current gen the kind of experiences I had hoped for.

ClockworkHouse wrote:
Actually, from what little I've played of them, Farscry, you might find what you're looking for in the Dragon Quest series. You'll get slimes instead of chocobos, but the gameplay elements you're talking about are alive in full force in those games.

Not sure if I Tannhausered you, but yeah, Dragon Quest has usurped Final Fantasy for me in many ways. But we never got a true follow-up to DQ8 this generation on the 360 or PS3, and while I'm very eager to play DQX when (if?) it comes overseas, that's an mmo.

Lately I'm starting to feel like a relic of an older time who has simply been left behind.

Friendly reminder that Unchained Blades is out today for 3DS.

Farscry wrote:
Not sure if I Tannhausered you...

You did. I get what you're saying about wanting a big budget traditional JRPG. In my world of 3DS and Wii games I tend to forget that things can look better than they did on the PS2.

walterqchocobo wrote:
So....how about that Lightning Returns trailer? Everyone's excited for another Final Fantasy XIII story with Lightning, right?

Man I guess this is sarcastic but yeah I totally am!

I haven't finished FFXIII yet (really close) but I love the combat and the world, and the Lightning Returns trailer looked sweet!

I like that every FF is pretty different from the last. I think a lot of the old traditional stuff lives on in other games, so it's not really necessary for FF to go back to its roots.

ClockworkHouse wrote:
Friendly reminder that Unchained Blades is out today for 3DS.

Farscry wrote:
Not sure if I Tannhausered you...

You did. I get what you're saying about wanting a big budget traditional JRPG. In my world of 3DS and Wii games I tend to forget that things can look better than they did on the PS2. ;)

And please please don't think I'm bashing these awesome Wii releases we've been fortunate to get!

As for the portables, they've given me an amazing amount of gameplay and value over the years. But I can only hunch over a handheld for so long at a time. I'm one of those crazy people who's actually gotten a fair bit of use out of the composite-out cables for my PSP, connecting it to my tv to play on a larger display where I can sprawl out mostly comfortably on the floor.

And Unchained Blades out today for the 3DS?! WOOT! Finally!

Demyx wrote:
walterqchocobo wrote:
So....how about that Lightning Returns trailer? Everyone's excited for another Final Fantasy XIII story with Lightning, right?

Man I guess this is sarcastic but yeah I totally am!

I haven't finished FFXIII yet (really close) but I love the combat and the world, and the Lightning Returns trailer looked sweet!

I like that every FF is pretty different from the last. I think a lot of the old traditional stuff lives on in other games, so it's not really necessary for FF to go back to its roots.

Actually, I really liked both FF XIII and XIII-2 (although the story for XIII-2 was lame and confusing). I am also looking forward to this game and it will likely be a Day 1 purchase. After reading this forum, I have noticed that FF XIII is a very love-or-hate type of game so was reluctant to ask for thoughts on the new one.

For what it is worth, I would love to see a throwback game once in awhile (FF IX is one of my favorites) but I do appreciate that they change it up regularly.

Final Fantasy fans (or whoever), this is probably worth a download. Free 100+ page fan-made e-magazine celebrating the series' 25th aniversary. It's really cool and well done from what I've read so far.

ccesarano wrote:
And if all the old farts went and bought Lost Odyssey we might have a Lost Odyssey 2. :P

Did my part as well. I even bought Infinite Space for the DS, because I'm a dreamer and support dreams, man.

Lightning is the 'fetch' of the Final Fantasy series. Square just wants to make her happen so bad.

KidDork wrote:
ccesarano wrote:
And if all the old farts went and bought Lost Odyssey we might have a Lost Odyssey 2. :P

Did my part as well. I even bought Infinite Space for the DS, because I'm a dreamer and support dreams, man.

Lightning is the 'fetch' of the Final Fantasy series. Square just wants to make her happen so bad.

Yep, I also bought Lost Odyssey... even shed a tear while reading the first novella. I'll have to start it over again, though, because I put it down and got busy doing other things. I love that game.

KidDork wrote:

Lightning is the 'fetch' of the Final Fantasy series. Square just wants to make her happen so bad.

I would just like to state, that I am not sure I have ever loved a statement more then this.

Cheeto1016 wrote:
KidDork wrote:

Lightning is the 'fetch' of the Final Fantasy series. Square just wants to make her happen so bad.

I would just like to state, that I am not sure I have ever loved a statement more then this.

If only there were a Vietnamese game industry for her to hang out in..

Hey so I posted this on Twitter but didn't get any leads, and this seems like a pretty good place for it.

I have played a lot of Atlus-developed games in the past year or so. They are consistently great, and it makes me want to know more about the developers. I know that games like Persona 3, Persona 4, Strange Journey, maybe Catherine, and the mainline SMT games all share a bunch of development staff. It really seems like there's a core team at work with a strong vision and a great record for execution. They may be called Atlus R&D1, or the "Team Maniax" that is supposed to be developing SMT4.

Has anyone read something like a history of Atlus, or a history of the core team that makes the SMT games, or a detailed making-of or backstory for any of those games? Interviews with the creators?

The best thing I have found is the Hardcore Gaming 101 entry on the Megaten series (through Strange Journey), but this is really just a description of each game, and doesn't tell us much of anything about the development of the series or of any game, or anything about the people behind it.

Catherine was made by Persona Team as well, which may or may not be the same as R&D1, according to an ambiguous sentence in an article Minarchist linked in IRC today.

the branch that handles MegaTen-derived and related games – the group that used to be known as R&D 1 and includes the folks known as “Persona Team”

The article was just about Persona 3 though, not sure it will contain much info for you: http://www.projectballad.com/2012/02...

In my experience that information has been exceedingly difficult to come by. The most credible thing I've heard actually debunks the common "R&D1" myth (as though there is an R&D2), and just says that Atlus' in-house development is all one big team, and people are assigned to various projects as necessary.