P&C Crap-All

Seth wrote:
Stengah wrote:
Seth wrote:

Whelp I'm not gonna change your mind. That's ok though, I'm still comfortable calling the kid a lazy parasite.

It's sad that you won't even entertain the idea that he's not.

Actually, I do. I also entertain the idea that evolution is wrong and OJ is innocent. I thought I said that.

Allowing for an "infinitesimal chance" you're wrong is really not entertaining it.
I mean, what parent thinks their kid deserves to work minimum wage? Especially when they don't have to?

Nevin73 wrote:

I'll put this out there - while children can grow up and form their own ideas that often independent or contrary to their parents, more often they are actively influenced by their parents. Given the level of privilege the parent seems to think his son deserves, I'm willing to bet some money that the kid is an entitled twit.

Yep. Thing is, if this kid had been doing anything even remotely worth praise, I feel like the parent would've mentioned it. Whether that was taking care of the dog, or doing chores, or helping at the soup kitchen, it would've been in the rant. The lack thereof is just as telling as the classism demonstrated.

Stengah wrote:
Seth wrote:
Stengah wrote:
Seth wrote:

Whelp I'm not gonna change your mind. That's ok though, I'm still comfortable calling the kid a lazy parasite.

It's sad that you won't even entertain the idea that he's not.

Actually, I do. I also entertain the idea that evolution is wrong and OJ is innocent. I thought I said that.

Allowing for an "infinitesimal chance" you're wrong is really not entertaining it.
I mean, what parent thinks their kid deserves to work minimum wage? Especially when they don't have to?

What is with this recent classism, both here and in the minimum wage discussion? What the hell is wrong with a minimum wage job? I'd be proud of my kid for getting out and finding a job paying minimum wage vs sleeping in my house three decades after he fell out of my wife.

A parent's responsibility is to raise an adult, not an entitled brat.

Seth wrote:
Stengah wrote:
Seth wrote:
Stengah wrote:
Seth wrote:

Whelp I'm not gonna change your mind. That's ok though, I'm still comfortable calling the kid a lazy parasite.

It's sad that you won't even entertain the idea that he's not.

Actually, I do. I also entertain the idea that evolution is wrong and OJ is innocent. I thought I said that.

Allowing for an "infinitesimal chance" you're wrong is really not entertaining it.
I mean, what parent thinks their kid deserves to work minimum wage? Especially when they don't have to?

What is with this recent classism, both here and in the minimum wage discussion? What the hell is wrong with a minimum wage job? I'd be proud of my kid for getting out and finding a job paying minimum wage vs sleeping in my house three decades after he fell out of my wife.

A parent's responsibility is to raise an adult, not an entitled brat.

Nothing's wrong with working a minimum wage job if that's what you need to do, but this kid doesn't need to. What's so wrong with a parent wanting to support his kid until they can find a job in the field they went to college for? Or because the parent didn't list the college or the degree do we assume it's not real just like we assume the kid isn't doing anything at home because it wasn't in an angry letter to a talk-show host?

haha, man, Stengah, you've really backed yourself into a corner of defending this kid as a Paragon of Virtue.

Seth wrote:

haha, man, Stengah, you've really backed yourself into a corner of defending this kid as a Paragon of Virtue. :)

You are being ridiculous. You are arguing with the idiotic strawman image of the Millennial that the media has created, and lobbing assertions as to this guy's character out there as if you actually know anything about the guy. His parent's words are no indication of anything about him - there are lots of people that turn out great despite awful parents, and vice versa.

A minimum wage job can be detrimental to finding and getting a job in higher-end fields. I'm an engineer, and my interviews were generally full-day to multi-day processes. I have a lot of peers who had to travel to other states, even across the country, just for interviews. Spending 34 hours a week running a grill does nothing to help that process. If this guy recently graduated college with an advanced degree, best case is he'd be keeping his job as Wal-Mart associate hidden from potential employers in his field, and he will likely be fired for going to too many interviews.

As a 30 year old who lives with my parents, yes, people assume the worst of you the moment they uncover that little factoid. There is little or even no recognition in this culture that sometimes the most mature, rational, and adult decision really is to remain at home.

Yes there are some in similar situations who are capable yet just leaching away doing not even trying to help out or do anything with themselves but the assumption seems to be that everyone in such a situation is like that. In general it strikes me as just more of the same ol ridiculous 'life script' bs society at large constantly tries to force down our throats and convince us that we've failed as human beings if we don't line up on schedule.

Seth wrote:

haha, man, Stengah, you've really backed yourself into a corner of defending this kid as a Paragon of Virtue. :)

I'm not defending him as a paragon of virtue, I'm having some empathy and giving him the benefit of the doubt. I've said several times that if the kid is in fact sitting at home doing nothing than you, nevin, and the host are all correct that he's a leech.

Stengah wrote:

What's so wrong with a parent wanting to support his kid until they can find a job in the field they went to college for?

I laughed a little bit at this. I know very few parents who want this.

Nevin73 wrote:
Stengah wrote:

What's so wrong with a parent wanting to support his kid until they can find a job in the field they went to college for?

I laughed a little bit at this. I know very few parents who want this.

So you know parents who do want and do this, but somehow the people in question couldn't be part of that group?

Kraint wrote:
Seth wrote:

haha, man, Stengah, you've really backed yourself into a corner of defending this kid as a Paragon of Virtue. :)

A minimum wage job can be detrimental to finding and getting a job in higher-end fields. I'm an engineer, and my interviews were generally full-day to multi-day processes. I have a lot of peers who had to travel to other states, even across the country, just for interviews. Spending 34 hours a week running a grill does nothing to help that process. If this guy recently graduated college with an advanced degree, best case is he'd be keeping his job as Wal-Mart associate hidden from potential employers in his field, and he will likely be fired for going to too many interviews.

We're not talking about people who were making >60k annually and lost their jobs and are scrambling to teleport back to their most recent position on the salary ladder. We're talking about a 29 year old who has never bothered to even climb the bottom rungs of the ladder, because his parents let him spend his 20s in semi retirement.

I bolded "can be" because that's anecdotal, and only true sometimes -- and rarely in the scenario we're discussing. The adverse is that working minimum wage jobs can be an important experience both for learning important skills and for networking. *I* have a lot of peers who didn't have to travel to other states for interviews, because they knew a guy who knew a guy through a coworker at their minimum wage job.

Maybe before calling me ridiculous and falsely accusing me of arguing against a straw man, we should explore this idea that 3 decades on this earth is somehow not enough time to "line up on schedule."

Seth wrote:
Kraint wrote:
Seth wrote:

haha, man, Stengah, you've really backed yourself into a corner of defending this kid as a Paragon of Virtue. :)

A minimum wage job can be detrimental to finding and getting a job in higher-end fields. I'm an engineer, and my interviews were generally full-day to multi-day processes. I have a lot of peers who had to travel to other states, even across the country, just for interviews. Spending 34 hours a week running a grill does nothing to help that process. If this guy recently graduated college with an advanced degree, best case is he'd be keeping his job as Wal-Mart associate hidden from potential employers in his field, and he will likely be fired for going to too many interviews.

We're not talking about people who were making >60k annually and lost their jobs and are scrambling to teleport back to their most recent position on the salary ladder. We're talking about a 29 year old who has never bothered to even climb the bottom rungs of the ladder, because his parents let him spend his 20s in semi retirement.

Hey look, another thing that need citation.

Stengah wrote:

Hey look, another thing that need citation.

the parent wrote:

2) You greatly exaggerate the importance of “chores.” Also, the idea that a kid should be forced to “get a job” is abhorrent. My son was very gifted so we gave him all the tools to succeed academically. This meant we didn’t turn him into slave labor and we certainly didn’t tell him he needed to go work behind a cash register. He concentrated on his school work, and we did our job as parents and financially supported him.

3) It’s easy to mock a “30 year old who lives with is parents.” My son is almost 29 and he’s been home with us since he graduated. Unfortunately the job market isn’t the greatest (maybe you hadn’t heard) and I’m not going to let him starve on the street. He has a college education, it’s pointless for him to be out working in a retail store or some other menial job. I will be here for him until he is able to get the job he deserves.

Hey look, another citation.

Hey look, that still says only that they didn't make him go get a job just to have a job, not that he spent his 20's in semi-retirement.

You silly bastards, it is Friday! People are supposed to be in a good mood on Fridays:)

Stengah wrote:

Hey look, that still says only that they didn't make him go get a job just to have a job, not that he spent his 20's in semi-retirement.

You can lead a horse to water..

You're not getting what I'm saying, Seth. I am not saying that people should always choose not to work at all rather than work a minimum wage job, I'm saying that we don't know enough about this kid's situation to condemn him as a parasitic leech.

Stengah wrote:

You're not getting what I'm saying, Seth. I am not saying that people should always choose not to work at all rather than work a minimum wage job, I'm saying that we don't know enough about this kid's situation to condemn him as a parasitic leech.

Right. The only disagreement is that you're speaking for me, there. I get that you don't know enough, but Nevin and I are pretty convinced.

Seth wrote:
Stengah wrote:

You're not getting what I'm saying, Seth. I am not saying that people should always choose not to work at all rather than work a minimum wage job, I'm saying that we don't know enough about this kid's situation to condemn him as a parasitic leech.

Right. The only disagreement is that you're speaking for me, there. I get that you don't know enough, but Nevin and I are pretty convinced.

And I still find that sad.

Eh, I got less than six hours of sleep last night. I'm not going to be looking at the bright side of anything today.

Seth wrote:
Stengah wrote:

You're not getting what I'm saying, Seth. I am not saying that people should always choose not to work at all rather than work a minimum wage job, I'm saying that we don't know enough about this kid's situation to condemn him as a parasitic leech.

Right. The only disagreement is that you're speaking for me, there. I get that you don't know enough, but Nevin and I are pretty convinced.

Tell me, since you know this guy so well, what is his degree in, when did he graduate, how many job interviews has he gone on in the past two weeks, and how many hours per day does he spend filling out applications and writing cover letters?

Also, which Wal-Mart associates he should be making friends with to hook him up with that sweet Fortune 500-company interview like your buddies did?

Kraint wrote:
Seth wrote:
Stengah wrote:

You're not getting what I'm saying, Seth. I am not saying that people should always choose not to work at all rather than work a minimum wage job, I'm saying that we don't know enough about this kid's situation to condemn him as a parasitic leech.

Right. The only disagreement is that you're speaking for me, there. I get that you don't know enough, but Nevin and I are pretty convinced.

Tell me, since you know this guy so well, what is his degree in, when did he graduate, how many job interviews has he gone on in the past two weeks, and how many hours per day does he spend filling out applications and writing cover letters?

Also, which Wal-Mart associates he should be making friends with to hook him up with that sweet Fortune 500-company interview like your buddies did?

Who cares what his degree is in? Who cares when he graduated? Who cares how many job interviews he skipped because he was stoned/hungover went to?

I would recommend the Wal Mart associates with contacts in whatever field he wants to get into. That's what worked for me and my friends, although in the interest of full disclosure it wasn't Wal Mart, it was a bookstore, a coffee shop, and an electronics store.

I get that there's a chance this kid is the next Mother Theresa, a sterling rose about to crack an egg of boundless utopia for the planet.

I'm just betting against that.

All based on a letter that only mentions him briefly from an angry liberal parent to an angry conservative talk-show host.

The letter was entirely about him. Literally all three points were about the person's parenting style and about the son in particular. "Briefly mentions" is quite a...jump to conclusions.

Is this the right place for this?

You're right. It gives us very few little information about the kid, but they were about how he treated his son.
I still reject your stance that knowing that the son wasn't forced to have a job during high-school and is living at home until he gets a decent job is enough information about him to condemn him as a lazy parasite.

I think Jayhawker has taught us all a little something about keeping our priorities in order.

EDIT: Oh, and crap. I thought it was a zen commentary on the running argument. It always stuns me when a forum explosion isn't the result of a LarryC-section.

KingGorilla wrote:

What the hell is a "Matt Walsh"?

There's only one Matt Walsh I recognize. And he's funny.

jdzappa wrote:

I have no idea where else to put this - so figured I'd put it in the crap all.

I'm going to say based on where things went, stuff like that doesn't belong anywhere, even in a Crap-All. Unless this is also going to be the thread for every time a conservative parent says they beat their kids for not praying enough or some equivalent straw man.

CheezePavilion wrote:
jdzappa wrote:

I have no idea where else to put this - so figured I'd put it in the crap all.

I'm going to say based on where things went, stuff like that doesn't belong anywhere, even in a Crap-All. Unless this is also going to be the thread for every time a conservative parent says they beat their kids for not praying enough or some equivalent straw man.

Oh man, didn't get a chance to post back yesterday (damn you work internet filters!?!) and missed out on all the fun. I just thought it was a particularly funny rant that's been getting a lot of traction in my Facebook group. If the consensus is this kind of stuff just circles the drain - and Jayhawker's hilarious video hints at that - then I'll refrain from posting anything similar. For the record, I don't completely agree with Mat Walsh's side on this, except for the part where if you're sitting at home at 29 waiting for your dream job instead of moving on to Plan B or C, then IMHO you've become pretty entitled.

I also have no idea if the unemployed kid is a total stoner loser or an internet demigod with no real world skills or motivation. I will say that while work in college is certainly work and teaches a certain amount of discipline/work ethic, it's not quite the same as working in the real world. Even a rather menial job teaches important stuff like showing up on time, being willing to do sh*tty tasks because it's expected, and dealing with horrible bosses and customers. Let's face it - in college you can for the most part avoid the most rude and obnoxious people and show up 15 minutes late to class in your PJs. If you hate a class, you can always drop it. No such luck at your Best Buy shift.

Final thought - most employers want to see at least a bit of motivation in potential candidates. If I'm looking at Candidate A who has a steady job record and good references even if they're not in the immediate field vs Candidate B who has stellar grades but no work experience at all, I'm going to lean towards Candidate A.