P&C Crap-All

Yup. That's crap alright.

Thread title change to reflect change in topic.

I tried to post the rim-shot image, but even he was like, "f*ck no."

Andrew Dice Clay might steal it, though.

IMAGE(http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/9703/yy7i.jpg)

I have no idea where else to put this - so figured I'd put it in the crap all. Hilarious online exchange between self-righteous liberal parent and self-righteous conservative parent/talk show host Matt Walsh.

http://themattwalshblog.com/2013/07/...

I don’t respond to most of the negative emails I get from people who listen to my show or read my blog. This one struck a chord, though. Here’s a message I received from a guy named Nick, in reference to a discussion we had on the broad subject of parenting. I think we can all benefit from reading this and confronting the sad reality that this country is full of Nicks:

“Matt, I heard your horrible conversation today about parenting. A few comments in response:

1) Based on your remarks, I have to say I feel bad for your kids. You sound like the sort of person who never should have been a parent. You said you plain to teach your kids “how to think.” I guess this is common in right wing religious fundamentalist households. Personally, I let my child form his own conclusions about things. To impose your views on a child is tantamount to child abuse. Do them a favor, let them think FREELY.

2) You greatly exaggerate the importance of “chores.” Also, the idea that a kid should be forced to “get a job” is abhorrent. My son was very gifted so we gave him all the tools to succeed academically. This meant we didn’t turn him into slave labor and we certainly didn’t tell him he needed to go work behind a cash register. He concentrated on his school work, and we did our job as parents and financially supported him.

3) It’s easy to mock a “30 year old who lives with is parents.” My son is almost 29 and he’s been home with us since he graduated. Unfortunately the job market isn’t the greatest (maybe you hadn’t heard) and I’m not going to let him starve on the street. He has a college education, it’s pointless for him to be out working in a retail store or some other menial job. I will be here for him until he is able to get the job he deserves.

You need to grow up, get some life experiences and then maybe you’ll have the right to sermonize about parenting.

-Nick”

And here’s the response I sent to him:

Dear Nick,

1) Tell you what. How ’bout I blindfold you, drive you out into the middle of the desert at night, and then leave you there without a map or a GPS? It’ll be great. You can just travel FREELY. After all, who am I to bring you to this place and then presume to tell you how to navigate? I’m just the guy that kidnapped you and dumped you into a hostile, cold wilderness. It would be presumptuous and authoritative of me to offer you direction and guidance. So I’ll let you wander around aimlessly until you collapse exhausted in a ditch, and are eaten slowly by wild scavengers. You’re welcome. I mean, I assume you’ll be grateful. I’ll merely be applying your parenting technique to the situation.

By the way, did you ever tell your kid not to play in the street? Did you instruct him about the dangers of hot stoves and fallen electrical wires? This is a quandary. See, if you imposed your anti-high voltage power line views on your kid, then apparently you’re guilty of abuse by your standards. However, if you didn’t, you’re guilty of reprehensible neglect by the standards of civilized human beings. I’m not an expert on parenting. I never claimed to be. But you don’t need to be an expert to know that one of the fundamental tasks of a parent — and this really speaks to the whole point of the endeavor — is to teach your child how to navigate the physical, moral, spiritual and intellectual dangers of life. This includes teaching them how to think, which could also be referred to as passing on your values and your worldview. If you have no interest in doing this, then I would suggest that you never really wanted a child — you wanted a friend. Now you have one. Living at home with you. Forever. Congratulations.

2) Chores schmores. What can they teach a kid? Discipline, obedience, and hard work? Screw that. What is this, the 50′s? Listen, Nick, don’t take this the wrong way, but what leads you to the conclusion that your son is “gifted”? He can’t mow the lawn, work a job, earn a living, pay a bill, apply a skill, or support himself, yet he’s “gifted”? What are his gifts, exactly? You know, something tells me an astronaut’s parents never have to inform people that their child is “gifted.” People sort of pick up on that based on context clues. They behold his accomplishments and admire his achievements. They can SEE his gifts. He uses them, applies them, refines them. Your son MIGHT have gifts — the jury is still out — but whatever they may be, they’ll atrophy and whittle away the longer he spends lounging in a bean bag chair eating macaroni and cheese.

3) So your brilliant and gifted 29 year old son would “starve” if he was forced to take care of himself? The “gifted” standard is getting lower by the day, isn’t it? I’ve been living independently and taking care of myself since before I could legally drink a Heineken. I guess that makes me a Nobel candidate — if your helpless grown adult son gets to set the bar for “gifted.”

Holy hyperbole, angry internet arguers! Sad that both these knobs are parents.

What the hell is a "Matt Walsh"?

Amoebic wrote:

Holy hyperbole, angry internet arguers! Sad that both these knobs are parents.

True. Though I hate that I sort of agree with the conservative douche.

I see bits to sort of agree with from both sides.

Personally I found this to be fairly offensive:

it’s pointless for him to be out working in a retail store or some other menial job
Nevin73 wrote:

Personally I found this to be fairly offensive:

it’s pointless for him to be out working in a retail store or some other menial job

Well, his parents are obviously able and willing to keep him housed, clothed, and fed, so it is rather pointless for him to be working a retail job. There are other people who need those jobs a lot more than he does. All he'd be doing is working to say he's working. I imagine his parents paid for at least part of his tuition, so they probably think he's better off spending his time looking for a job in his field rather than stocking shelves.
Of course, this all depends on him actually trying to get a job in his field and helping out around the house. It's entirely possible that he just hits up a job listing websites for a little bit then spends the rest of the day on his ass.

Stengah wrote:
Nevin73 wrote:

Personally I found this to be fairly offensive:

it’s pointless for him to be out working in a retail store or some other menial job

Well, his parents are obviously able and willing to keep him housed, clothed, and fed, so it is rather pointless for him to be working a retail job. There are other people who need those jobs a lot more than he does. All he'd be doing is working to say he's working. I imagine his parents paid for at least part of his tuition, so they probably think he's better off spending his time looking for a job in his field rather than stocking shelves.
Of course, this all depends on him actually trying to get a job in his field and helping out around the house. It's entirely possible that he just hits up a job listing websites for a little bit then spends the rest of the day on his ass.

I disagree. Working a menial job, which he should've done as a teenager, gives someone an appreciation for the (hopefully) better career they pursue. Also, as he is 29 and doesn't have a job at all, what the parents have produced is a useless leech on society. Fortunately he is currently only affecting his parents. I get that the job market is tough, but working any job, regardless of how menial, contributing to the family situation instead of simply mooching, is always preferrable.

Nevin73 wrote:
Stengah wrote:
Nevin73 wrote:

Personally I found this to be fairly offensive:

it’s pointless for him to be out working in a retail store or some other menial job

Well, his parents are obviously able and willing to keep him housed, clothed, and fed, so it is rather pointless for him to be working a retail job. There are other people who need those jobs a lot more than he does. All he'd be doing is working to say he's working. I imagine his parents paid for at least part of his tuition, so they probably think he's better off spending his time looking for a job in his field rather than stocking shelves.
Of course, this all depends on him actually trying to get a job in his field and helping out around the house. It's entirely possible that he just hits up a job listing websites for a little bit then spends the rest of the day on his ass.

I disagree. Working a menial job, which he should've done as a teenager, gives someone an appreciation for the (hopefully) better career they pursue. Also, as he is 29 and doesn't have a job at all, what the parents have produced is a useless leech on society. Fortunately he is currently only affecting his parents. I get that the job market is tough, but working any job, regardless of how menial, contributing to the family situation instead of simply mooching, is always preferrable.

The parent never said their kid didn't work an "experience building" job as a teenager, and it's entirely possible he's contributing to the family situation in other ways and isn't just "mooching." Not having a job at the moment does not automatically make him a leech on society.

Wait. Are we saying that middle class and upper middle class kids shouldn't be learning responsibility, shouldn't be taking pride in work, and should be taught the lesson that not all jobs have integrity, all because someone might *need* a job more than they do?

I'm with Nevin on this. Low wage jobs are not bad Jobs. The liberal parents raised a lazy, irresponsible parasite; we can't know for certain how much of this was due to their boy-man-son not learning that there's honor in work, but I definitely believe it's a big part.

Seth wrote:

Wait. Are we saying that middle class and upper middle class kids shouldn't be learning responsibility, shouldn't be taking pride in work, and should be taught the lesson that not all jobs have integrity, all because someone might *need* a job more than they do?

I'm with Nevin on this. Low wage jobs are not bad Jobs. The liberal parents raised a lazy, irresponsible parasite; we can't know for certain how much of this was due to their boy-man-son not learning that there's honor in work, but I definitely believe it's a big part.

That's some professional level jumping to conclusions you're doing there. I don't recall the parent saying anything about their son's work ethic in his message to the talk show host.

You greatly exaggerate the importance of “chores.” Also, the idea that a kid should be forced to “get a job” is abhorrent. My son was very gifted so we gave him all the tools to succeed academically. This meant we didn’t turn him into slave labor and we certainly didn’t tell him he needed to go work behind a cash register. He concentrated on his school work, and we did our job as parents and financially supported him.

The kid never worked a day in his life.

I'd say it's about as big a jump as this guy makes:

IMAGE(http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/125/smallest/img/06-smallest-125-tree-frog.jpg)

Just re read all the derisive anti-poor-people garbage the parent wrote in their #3 above. That's some serious class bashing right there, and it's really not too far to make the leap that 1) they think their darling boy is too good for that work, and 2) that boy has learned that lesson well over the last 29 years.

The tone of the 3rd point is strongly classist, and I'm saying that coming from a society with very strong, longstanding classism. It's one thing to say, "His skillset makes him valuable to our family interests in ways other than working low wage jobs," and quite another to say "He's too skilled to waste on menial work."

Nevin73 wrote:
You greatly exaggerate the importance of “chores.” Also, the idea that a kid should be forced to “get a job” is abhorrent. My son was very gifted so we gave him all the tools to succeed academically. This meant we didn’t turn him into slave labor and we certainly didn’t tell him he needed to go work behind a cash register. He concentrated on his school work, and we did our job as parents and financially supported him.

The kid never worked a day in his life.

So apparently schoolwork cannot possibly teach someone a work ethic?

Seth wrote:

Just re read all the derisive anti-poor-people garbage the parent wrote in their #3 above. That's some serious class bashing right there, and it's really not too far to make the leap that 1) they think their darling boy is too good for that work, and 2) that boy has learned that lesson well over the last 29 years.

Their darling boy may well be too good to do that work if he doesn't have to (that would mostly depend on what his degree was in), and right now he's in a position where he doesn't have to. The leap you two and the talk-show host are making is that this kid is just sitting on his ass while mommy and daddy pay for everything. Now if that's true, I'll certainly agree with you that the kid's a leech, but all we have is the host's supposition that he's doing so.

Stengah wrote:
Seth wrote:

Just re read all the derisive anti-poor-people garbage the parent wrote in their #3 above. That's some serious class bashing right there, and it's really not too far to make the leap that 1) they think their darling boy is too good for that work, and 2) that boy has learned that lesson well over the last 29 years.

Their darling boy may well be too good to do that work if he doesn't have to (that would mostly depend on what his degree was in), and right now he's in a position where he doesn't have to.

No one is ever too good for any kind of work. They can merely be fortunate enough to not need to do certain kinds of work.

Again though -- not a leap. A tiny hop.

Like evolution and OJ's guilt, I'm fairly confident declaring a 29 year old who refuses to get a job and lives with his parents lazy, despite there being an infinitesimal chance that I am wrong.

Seth wrote:

Again though -- not a leap. A tiny hop.

Like evolution and OJ's guilt, I'm fairly confident declaring a 29 year old who refuses to get a job and lives with his parents lazy, despite there being an infinitesimal chance that I am wrong.

Citation needed. It's a much smaller hop to think the kid's looking for work in his field but unable to find any than to think he refuses to get a job.

Farscry wrote:
Stengah wrote:
Seth wrote:

Just re read all the derisive anti-poor-people garbage the parent wrote in their #3 above. That's some serious class bashing right there, and it's really not too far to make the leap that 1) they think their darling boy is too good for that work, and 2) that boy has learned that lesson well over the last 29 years.

Their darling boy may well be too good to do that work if he doesn't have to (that would mostly depend on what his degree was in), and right now he's in a position where he doesn't have to.

No one is ever too good for any kind of work. They can merely be fortunate enough to not need to do certain kinds of work.

Good point. That kid is fortunate enough that he doesn't need to go work in retail or fast-food.

3) It’s easy to mock a “30 year old who lives with is parents.” My son is almost 29 and he’s been home with us since he graduated. Unfortunately the job market isn’t the greatest (maybe you hadn’t heard) and I’m not going to let him starve on the street. He has a college education, it’s pointless for him to be out working in a retail store or some other menial job. I will be here for him until he is able to get the job he deserves.

Citation given.

Stengah wrote:

Good point. That kid is fortunate enough that he doesn't need to go work in retail or fast-food.

Yup, that I'm 100% in agreement with.

Seth wrote:
3) It’s easy to mock a “30 year old who lives with is parents.” My son is almost 29 and he’s been home with us since he graduated. Unfortunately the job market isn’t the greatest (maybe you hadn’t heard) and I’m not going to let him starve on the street. He has a college education, it’s pointless for him to be out working in a retail store or some other menial job. I will be here for him until he is able to get the job he deserves.

Citation given.

That's the parent's opinion, not the kid's, and it doesn't say whether or not the kid is actively trying to get a job his parent thinks "he deserves."

Whelp I'm not gonna change your mind. That's ok though, I'm still comfortable calling the kid a lazy parasite.

Seth wrote:

Whelp I'm not gonna change your mind. That's ok though, I'm still comfortable calling the kid a lazy parasite.

It's sad that you won't even entertain the idea that he's not.

Stengah wrote:
Seth wrote:

Whelp I'm not gonna change your mind. That's ok though, I'm still comfortable calling the kid a lazy parasite.

It's sad that you won't even entertain the idea that he's not.

Actually, I do. I also entertain the idea that evolution is wrong and OJ is innocent. I thought I said that.

I'll put this out there - while children can grow up and form their own ideas that often independent or contrary to their parents, more often they are actively influenced by their parents. Given the level of privilege the parent seems to think his son deserves, I'm willing to bet some money that the kid is an entitled twit.