On this thing called "rape culture"

O god, if you're at the point where something referencing something is a trigger for you, you're in no position to be attending a nerd convention.

*sigh*

So with all their purported helpers in play at ground zero for their supposed supporting leaders, they only managed two very small gatherings that were broken up immediately (which I note isn't mentioned here) and Mike drew something at audience request. Those "booth babes" were handled quickly and completely as well.

If that makes your decision for you in the face of everything else, then I don't know what to tell you.

This really hurts my feelings. We worked our asses off in a thousand ways, and you're basically saying that it doesn't matter. I'm exhausted and sick as a dog; I'm out of here before I say something I regret.

momgamer wrote:

So with all their purported helpers in play at ground zero for their supposed supporting leaders, they only managed two very small gatherings that were broken up immediately (which I note isn't mentioned here) and Mike drew something at audience request. Those "booth babes" were handled quickly and completely as well.

If that makes your decision for you in the face of everything else, then I don't know what to tell you.

This really hurts my feelings. We worked our asses off in a thousand ways, and you're basically saying that it doesn't matter. I'm exhausted and sick as a dog; I'm out of here before I say something I regret.

I had heard that there might be a Dickwolf flashmob, but when I didn't hear about any ugliness after PAX I assumed nothing came of it. To find out now that there were two flashmobs would almost be disappointing—until I see they were made up of 15-18 people... out of an attendance of 69,500. Clearly, 99.975% of PAX goers choose not to be dicks. And now to hear from momgamer that these flashmobs (does eighteen people qualify?) were immediately broken up makes me feel much better about that pathetic level of trolling.

The booth that had booth babes was DNF? Is that surprising in any way? It's unfortunate and upsetting, sure, but no more upsetting than the existence of DNF is regardless. I gave that exhibit a wide berth at PAX last year anyway.

As for Mike Krahulik, I can easily skip the make-a-strip panel. I've stopped watching PATV and even the strip and commentary has sort of lots its appeal for me. I don't read Penny Arcade as enthusiastically anymore, or care so much to enjoy Tycho's wordplay.

I'm still looking forward to PAX though.

Take it personally if you want, Momgamer, but it's not about you. It's about PAX falling to the DickWolves regardless of what everyone does. Mike poking at it is the worst part to me, honestly.

DSGamer wrote:

Take it personally if you want, Momgamer, but it's not about you. It's about PAX falling to the DickWolves regardless of what everyone does.

I will say that while I have my qualms with either side of this debate, the really frustrating (and tiring) part about all of it is the need for people to be pointlessly dramatic and play up things as bolded above. Falling to the Dickwolves? ~40 people try a "flash mob" and one joke by one of the event's founders hardly qualifies. If that's the case, I think SXSW here has "fallen to the homophobes" and Glee has "fallen to the vest-wearers" by proportion.

Mike poking at it is the worst part to me, honestly.

This I agree with. I am a huge proponent of the idea that over time, it's best to eventually look back at a particular incident of human stupidity and be able to make light of it to some degree, there are some cases where it's just bet to let things lie. This is probably one of them, especially considering how bone-headed those two have been over this in general.

Honestly, if there were 70,000 people in attendance, having only 40 assholes is a fairly remarkable thing. And some of those people are probably being counted twice.

So the people who wanted to see Dickwolves were able to locate them. This was inevitable. Ultimately I doubt these events will have any real impact on people's opinion of the convention, most having been fatally predisposed one way or the other months beforehand. I think it is a little disingenuous, and unfair to those organizing PAX, to suggest otherwise based solely on the evidence presented here.

Wouldn't it be more appropriate to post the dickwolves stuff in the dickwolves thread?

Rise, thread. Today, I submit for your approval the following story:

It Happened To Me: I Lost a Job For Calling Out the Company's Rape Apology

From a reddit post where I commented:

Hypatian wrote:
As oddly speculative and unnecessary as St. Amant's article is, legally aren't we supposed to share her doubt?

Sure, there's room for doubt, but the speculation is the thing that's really the problem here. The correct thing to do is to neither say "Oh, but there's a chance that she's a tart and nobody ever noticed before" nor "Oh, but there's a chance that he's a serial rapist and nobody ever talked before".

Rape culture? Victim blaming? Those are why you almost always see that first kind of speculation, and almost never see the second. That's the biggest reason that it's important to speak up when this kind of thing is done, because it's [em]never[/em] in support of being even-handed and fair to the accused. Being fair to the accused is not assuming that they're guilty. Being fair to the accuser is not assuming that they're a liar. You [em]can[/em] do both at the same time.

If you want to be properly skeptical and fair to both parties, just don't speculate in the absence of facts. State the facts, and move on. X has been accused by Y of sexual assault. Period. When new facts come to light, you can talk about those. In the absence of facts, speculation is just rumor-mongering.

In a bygone era, a present or former attorney, maybe a former cop might cover the crime beat for a paper, or would write copy for TV or Radio. Crime writing is often horrible. It is often full of lies, half truths, and a hell of a lot of people looking to get 15 minutes. Facts, reason, ethics seem in short supply.

There is a damn fine reason why a juror can be dismissed for having consumed news on a case, or can be held in contempt for consuming news during a case.

So there's already a thread in Everything Else about this, but I figured I'd put it here, too, so we can get rightly moral/angry/whatever about it -

The Oatmeal: "I wrote a response to Jack Stuef's BuzzFeed article about me."

The short of it is that Matt Inman (Oatmeal guy) made a rape joke comic. I think it's safe to say it's a "rape joke comic" because the word "rape" was used, though there is some argument on if it really constitutes "rape joke" if we're not even talking about animated objects anymore. When there was some backlash over it, he got frustrated and made a snide statement, which he later walked back.

This was the opener of a BuzzFeed article that was pretty much a poorly-researched hit piece on him. So Inman does what he has shown a habit of doing - ripping someone/something apart in annotated comic prose.

I think, at this point, the whole thing has degraded to a "DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM, I'M FAMOUS ON THE INTERNET!" rap battle, like so many things do anymore. I'd say overall, I'm with Inman on this just because I personally don't know the original comic in question was actually all that bad, I can understand lashing out in frustration (not that I agree with it, I just get it), and I believe his apology later was sincere, given the work he has done.

Yeah I saw that too. I won't comment on the validity of his original joke(because I don't think I have my head wrapped around rape culture yet) but I think he did the right thing. I mean after he lashed out anyway.

I guess I can understand someone not getting the significance of what they are talking about when it comes to rape. It does not make what he said OK but in the wake of what seems to be a sincere apology I don't see a need to rake the guy over the coals any further.

Though I thought the hit piece was pretty egregious and I don't blame Inman at all for responding.

Kier wrote:

Though I thought the hit piece was pretty egregious and I don't blame Inman at all for responding.

This, too.

I'm fine with the heat that Inman took from people over the 'rape' joke, because due in no large part to this thread, I've become more sympathetic to the perspective of the challenges in ending rape culture. I still feel like I don't understand the whole topic well enough, but I understand enough to realize that joking about rape carries far too much baggage to be 'innocent fun.'

But Stuef's hit-piece on Inman was some serious douchebaggery, and for the most part I sympathize with Inman's long retort.

Jesus, remind me never to get on Matt Inman's bad side.

No one can tear you a new one with elegance and wit like someone who writes funny sh*t for a living. This goes way back, even the Greeks and Romans had satirists.

If you thought that was bad, check out some of the stuff Inman wrote about that idiot lawyer who sued him. Not only is he a viciously talented satirist, he has a legion of even-more-vicious fans.

kazooka wrote:

Jesus, remind me never to get on Matt Inman's bad side.

Yeah. I enjoyed that for the most part, though. In this case he's satirizing the Internet. And, you know, the Internet can be pretty ridiculous sometimes.

In today's rape culture news...

Demand Kickstarter remove guide to sexual assault (Feministing)

Get CLOSE to her, damn it!

To quote Rob Judge, “Personal space is for pussies.” I already told you that the most successful seducers are those who can’t keep their hands off of women. Well you’re not gonna be able to do that if you aren’t in close!

All the greatest seducers in history could not keep their hands off of women. They aggressively escalated physically with every woman they were flirting with. They began touching them immediately, kept great body language and eye contact, and were shameless in their physicality. Even when a girl rejects your advances, she KNOWS that you desire her. That’s hot. It arouses her physically and psychologically.”

Decide that you’re going to sit in a position where you can rub her leg and back. Physically pick her up and sit her on your lap. Don’t ask for permission. Be dominant. Force her to rebuff your advances.

Pull out your c*ck and put her hand on it. Remember, she is letting you do this because you have established yourself as a LEADER. Don’t ask for permission, GRAB HER HAND, and put it right on your dick.”

I am not one to judge. But I anticipate that 12 people will do just that to anyone following this advice.

I only wish that were the way these stories usually end

I kind of want to start a crowd funded fund to help these ladies get independent counsel during prosecution, and also a separate stipend that they can use to have the gang or hate group of their choice make their aggressor's lives hell in prison. Might I suggest the Aryan Brotherhood.

At the highest with sexual assaults, the need for publically funded counsel for victims is needed during the process.

That's rape culture at work again right there.. "what, they're rapists? Well let's prison rape them!"

Tanglebones wrote:

That's rape culture at work again right there.. "what, they're rapists? Well let's prison rape them!"

But prison rape is legitimate rape and everyone knows that prisoners have ways of shutting the whole thing down.

Tanglebones wrote:

That's rape culture at work again right there.. "what, they're rapists? Well let's prison rape them!"

I have the same objection every time. The answer to rape is not more rape. Vengeance and Justice are not one and the same.

Well, the Brotherhood is not so much about the prison rapes. Prisons in real life are not Oz. The Brotherhood is adept at making incendiary bombs, which might be useful. The Latin Kings like to knee cap, also an excellent option, in my humble opinion.

SallyNasty wrote:
Tanglebones wrote:

That's rape culture at work again right there.. "what, they're rapists? Well let's prison rape them!"

I have the same objection every time. The answer to rape is not more rape. Vengeance and Justice are not one and the same.

+infinity

clover wrote:

In today's rape culture news...

Demand Kickstarter remove guide to sexual assault (Feministing)

Get CLOSE to her, damn it!

To quote Rob Judge, “Personal space is for pussies.” I already told you that the most successful seducers are those who can’t keep their hands off of women. Well you’re not gonna be able to do that if you aren’t in close!

All the greatest seducers in history could not keep their hands off of women. They aggressively escalated physically with every woman they were flirting with. They began touching them immediately, kept great body language and eye contact, and were shameless in their physicality. Even when a girl rejects your advances, she KNOWS that you desire her. That’s hot. It arouses her physically and psychologically.”

Decide that you’re going to sit in a position where you can rub her leg and back. Physically pick her up and sit her on your lap. Don’t ask for permission. Be dominant. Force her to rebuff your advances.

Pull out your c*ck and put her hand on it. Remember, she is letting you do this because you have established yourself as a LEADER. Don’t ask for permission, GRAB HER HAND, and put it right on your dick.”

I always love when people try to rationalize assault and terrible behavior as having logical and educated motives. They miss the fact that the reason this works is a lot of women feel cowed or intimidated when you invade their space like this. Hell, it's one of the ways you establish dominance over prisoners and captives. Invade their personal space. Constantly. Make them feel like they don't own their body, you do. And then, eventually, you have a submissive prisoner. This is law enforcement 101.

I especially like the caveat to those who get rejected - "No, man, keep it up. Them yelling at you and pushing you away means it's working. Or them being cool with it means it's working. It's always working!" I am certain that there are plenty of times someone is aware they are desired and they most certainly do not find it hot or arousing in any way.

Just think, all the Kickstarter money that goes to the big time movies could have been going to this charming project instead.