On this thing called "rape culture"

sometimesdee wrote:

Came here to post about that
http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/articl...

I like how the BBC mentioned Savoy's racism too, putting the sputum icing on that turd cake of a man and the magazine that features him.

Harris County prosecutors decided the best way to make sure she'd return to complete her testimony was to lock her up in the Harris County Jail.

Ummmm... what? So, she was charged with nothing and convicted of nothing and then she was sent to jail until she could finish her testimony. What the absolute f*ck? Like, I first heard of this and thought some callous judge ordered her to jail for like contempt of court for having a breakdown/leaving... and while that would have been awful, this is some next-level awful.

And she was in the general population, staff thought she was a perpetrator...no wonder she punched a male guard!

If anything, she should have gone to a mental health facility, not jail! f*ck Texas.

I don't even know how to comment about this...I'm really just horrified. It's beyond belief...and yet it isn't.

Next time you think you maybe aren't using your time properly, think of the idiots on the AV Club who'd rather fight to the grim death over Pepe LePew not being kinda gross, instead of saying "Yeah, cultural standards have changed, and it's dumb to have Max Landis write a script about him," and doing literally anything else.

SpacePPoliceman wrote:

Next time you think you maybe aren't using your time properly, think of the idiots on the AV Club who'd rather fight to the grim death over Pepe LePew not being kinda gross, instead of saying "Yeah, cultural standards have changed, and it's dumb to have Max Landis write a script about him," and doing literally anything else.

To be fair to the AV Club commentariat, the majority seems pretty uncomfortable with the subject. But there are of course some intelligent types who are happy to go down fighting over a rapey skunk.

Four women report being raped by the same Utah State University student within an 18-month window and absolutely nothing is done by the local police or the university's Title IX office. The man graduated without a hitch while two of his victims who were students dropped out and moved away out of fear and a third non-student victim still has nightmares about the attack.

SpacePPoliceman wrote:

Pepe LePew
Max Landis

WHAT COULD GO WRONG

MrDeVil909 wrote:
SpacePPoliceman wrote:

Next time you think you maybe aren't using your time properly, think of the idiots on the AV Club who'd rather fight to the grim death over Pepe LePew not being kinda gross, instead of saying "Yeah, cultural standards have changed, and it's dumb to have Max Landis write a script about him," and doing literally anything else.

To be fair to the AV Club commentariat, the majority seems pretty uncomfortable with the subject. But there are of course some intelligent types who are happy to go down fighting over a rapey skunk.

Yes, it should be said that by and large, AV Club is a great place. It does get invaded from time to time, however.

Bloo Driver wrote:
SpacePPoliceman wrote:

Pepe LePew
Max Landis

WHAT COULD GO WRONG

Exactly.

OG_slinger wrote:

Four women report being raped by the same Utah State University student within an 18-month window and absolutely nothing is done by the local police or the university's Title IX office. The man graduated without a hitch while two of his victims who were students dropped out and moved away out of fear and a third non-student victim still has nightmares about the attack.

Sadly this crap happens all over the place.

My eye-opening moment was learning about multiple victims at my own college (a friend worked in the residential affairs office) and that every single time, campus administration put all their efforts into sweeping it under the rug with a mere wristslap -- if anything -- given to the perp.

It was completely unsurprising to me a couple years after I graduated when this blew up into a minor scandal with the local news. I was surprised (this was naïve 22-yr-old Farscry here) when even after that, nothing meaningful changed at the college and the media circus blew over within a mere handful of weeks.

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Maq wrote:

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fwiw, I thought that was an interesting point of view.

Very self doubty at the moment and wasn't sure this was the place. Let me summarise:

My 4yo has gotten into playing Pokémon Go with me so I showed him the cartoon. I immediately felt uncomfortable with the underlying premise of achieving docility/obedience through violence. Pokémon trainers see a Pokémon they want, beat it into submission, and imprison them. After which they become friendly and obedient.

I felt this was a terrible way to illustrate to a young child how to forge a relationship with someone. We teach consent and cooperation in our house - no touching without explicit consent etc - and cheering on Ash and friends was sending mixed messages.

While I don't necessarily agree with your perspective as far as the rape culture aspect goes I do respect it. Even leaving out rape culture the idea of beating a creature into submission to make friends is problematic AF. And probably best to hold off on exposing your kids to that until you can have a frank discussion about it.

MrDeVil909 wrote:

While I don't necessarily agree with your perspective as far as the rape culture aspect goes I do respect it. Even leaving out rape culture the idea of beating a creature into submission to make friends is problematic AF. And probably best to hold off on exposing your kids to that until you can have a frank discussion about it.

Kinda why I deleted it. More an abusive relationship thing I guess although all these things intersect. I was thinking about it in terms of raising my sons to fully respect consent. Plus there's an underlying implication that once someone stops struggling against you and complies they will be happy which I found dodgy as hell.

Honestly, I think Pokemon has more to say about our relationships with animals than between humans. Pokemon are never presented as alt-form humans, or equals. They are presented as wish-fulfillment pets at best, and dangerous vermin at worst. These are not stories that are focused on human enslavement or oppression, at least not in the human-Pokemon relationships.

Robear wrote:

Honestly, I think Pokemon has more to say about our relationships with animals than between humans. Pokemon are never presented as alt-form humans, or equals. They are presented as wish-fulfillment pets at best, and dangerous vermin at worst. These are not stories that are focused on human enslavement or oppression, at least not in the human-Pokemon relationships.

There's at least some problematic elements (like the Pokemon Nursing School from Jessie's backstory) that go past human-like intelligence and go straight to occupational employment. The cross section of animal / human capacity is pretty hard to ignore in comparisons to similar arguments for human enslavement in the past.

I won't deny that the animal relationship aspect is a far bigger theme of the show/world, but there are definitely presentations of human-like capacities in Pokemon throughout. Hell, Meowth is a main character in the show and walks, talks, and interacts like a human the entire time.

In the context of teaching your kids "you can't just take without permission (and expect everything will be peachy)" then I think some pokemon scepticism seems well founded.

I totally take the point that it's also an attitude you want to avoid teaching your male children if you have any kind of eye on combating rape culture. Even if pokemon are purely animals you don't want to be teaching your kids that they are just entitled to take whatever is in front of them. A generalised sense of male entitlement surely underpins rape culture to some (large) extent?

A generalised sense of male entitlement surely underpins rape culture to some (large) extent?

Surely

Yeah that's where I was going with this. There's few consequences in the show for violating the autonomy of another creature. That runs counter to the lessons I'm trying to teach.

Jolly Bill wrote:

I won't deny that the animal relationship aspect is a far bigger theme of the show/world, but there are definitely presentations of human-like capacities in Pokemon throughout. Hell, Meowth is a main character in the show and walks, talks, and interacts like a human the entire time.

Yeah, I was mulling over this most of the day and Meowth specifically occurred to me. He's a fully sentient being who presumably at some stage had the sh*t beaten out of him to get him weak enough to force submission.

As I've thought about it I agree more with Maq's initial point.

Jolly Bill wrote:
A generalised sense of male entitlement surely underpins rape culture to some (large) extent?

Surely

Yep

I don't think a younger child is going to draw a distinction between pokemon, human, and animal. They're all "friends" and are portrayed as much in the show. The first time Stellan (4) saw a pokémon battle he asked "what are they doing". I said they're having a fight and that they like having play fights together. Then Ash captured said pokémon and it became "his". I had to explain that as well. I was not at all happy with that. It felt contrary to everything I'm trying to teach him about violence and consent. You don't make someone "yours" through violence.

MrDeVil909 wrote:
Jolly Bill wrote:

I won't deny that the animal relationship aspect is a far bigger theme of the show/world, but there are definitely presentations of human-like capacities in Pokemon throughout. Hell, Meowth is a main character in the show and walks, talks, and interacts like a human the entire time.

Yeah, I was mulling over this most of the day and Meowth specifically occurred to me. He's a fully sentient being who presumably at some stage had the sh*t beaten out of him to get him weak enough to force submission.

I was under the impression that Meowth was the Caesar the Ape of the pokeworld, waiting for the right moment to lead his oppressed brethren in violent revolution.

Never before has a more salient gif appeared on the internet:

https://i.imgur.com/2wQJOx8.gifv

Yeah, that's funny, uncomfortable and very apropos.

At least he didn't beat her up first.

DanB wrote:

Never before has a more salient gif appeared on the internet:

https://i.imgur.com/2wQJOx8.gifv

#retiredgif.

Maq wrote:

I don't think a younger child is going to draw a distinction between pokemon, human, and animal. They're all "friends" and are portrayed as much in the show. The first time Stellan (4) saw a pokémon battle he asked "what are they doing". I said they're having a fight and that they like having play fights together. Then Ash captured said pokémon and it became "his". I had to explain that as well. I was not at all happy with that. It felt contrary to everything I'm trying to teach him about violence and consent. You don't make someone "yours" through violence.

Yup, more DV than rape, but there is a lot of overlap between the two.