3DS Catch-all

ccesarano wrote:

No surprise but Federation Force is a total sales bomb (in Europe/the UK).

Federation Force is entirely absent from the UK all-format top 40, which still hosts other, ancient 3DS games on its list such as New Super Mario Bros. 2 and Tomodachi Life.

In fact, it doesn't even make the 3DS' own top 10. You have to look down to 15th place to find where it finally turned up

Basically, even games that are years old beat out "the new hotness" for August.

I think this is one of those times where I feel the criticism of gamers being entitled is well-earned. I understand wanting a "real" Metroid game, but no one ever said that Nintendo would stop making traditional Metroid games if this sold well. It's a childish temper-tantrum that completely ignores the hard work of Next Level games and the effort to create something new and fresh within the universe.

As I have yet to put together a co-op night I've been chipping away at it, completing the first six levels of the game. I have to say that it controls and plays a lot better than I would have expected, and while it's not the best of the best of the best, sir, with honors, it's still a good time.

People want something different, but Female Doggo when it's not the same, and then when the familiar is delivered but attached with a minor change, it's called a gimmick and Nintendo is criticized for being unable to do anything more than deliver the same-old but with gimmicks.

Bleh.

I think this may be a bit of observation bias. We're all deep in the fan side of gaming, so we see all the complaining/raging/hyping that goes on. However, that doesn't translate to making the top 10 or not, because it takes a lot more people than just the hardcore demographic to ensure that happens. There would have to be a compounding factor on top of fan outrage. My guess would be the lack of marketing, but as I don't watch TV I have only limited exposure to advertising. That said I didn't see a single banner ad, the game wasn't recommended to me by Amazon, and it showed up nowhere in my news feed.

The "hardcore" claims to want new, and I agree that is mostly hypocrisy. The general buying public wants more of the same though, and that's who Nintendo wants to sell to. That's a topic for an entire thread though.

Is that what's happening, or is the game just not that good?
Even you don't say it's good, you just say "it's better than expected", which doesn't sound like the type of quote that would accompany a top 10 game.
Glancing at reviews, they're all middling at best, with 65% on Metacritic. Are those reviews reacting to the fan reacting? I kinda think, since a lot of them mention the same flaws, that the game is suffering less from the (probably small but highly vocal) fan pre-game criticism and more from it just not being a great game. Also, Gamestop.com lists 536 3DS games (probably some duplication in there), so coming in at number 17 doesn't seem that bad. After all, putting hard work into a game doesn't (and shouldn't) automatically put it in the top 10.

But then, I haven't played it, or the vast majority of games in that top 10/15. What would you say? Does the game deserve to be higher than it is?

It's possible that my mind is too busy being in Box Office mode, where any new film has a chance to be in the top 10 spot and the focus is primarily on the top 3. I feel like that Metroid Prime Federation Force should have at least shown up at number 9 or so within the 3DS sales, even if not chipping at the usual top 10 of all platforms. That it was beat out so thoroughly feels like it's not a lot.

I cannot say for the game's overall quality so far. I'm enjoying it, and so it is good. Aspects of it are better than I expected. But I certainly feel that the best version is played with other players, which means you have a sort of problem where anyone asking if it's any good can't really answer because they've only played it in a mode that's not the ideal.

I've seen a few fellow Brits commenting that they wanted to buy the game and couldn't find a shop selling it. That leaves people with the generally expensive eshop, or ordering from amazon et al. Digital copies won't appear in the charts. I don't remember seeing a single advert or newspaper review for it. Eurogamer's review was middling. The previews were middling. Hardly anyone is talking about playing it.

I'm not interested in it for one very simple reason: the gameplay has zero appeal for me. Doesn't matter what brand you stick on it, it's a MP-oriented shooter. If it were a more traditional Metroid then I'd already have a copy, but that's because it would be an entirely different - and more appealing - type of game. I bet that the same is true for a lot of people. Of those who do like this gameplay style, how many want to play it on 3DS? Home consoles offer a wide range of shooters with far better visuals, better controls, familiar online services, better reviews and active fans. Metroid is also a minor Nintendo brand when you look outside of the hardcore, so using the brand hasn't helped and may have done harm by permitting the predictable negative narrative. When all of this is taken together, I'd be amazed if the game sold well.

Kirby Planet Robobot is likewise missing from both shelves and chart, and that one has more in its favour than Metroid FF. I've seen one copy of the pricier amiibo edition and that's it. The standard edition went very hard to find online immediately after launch day. It's starting to come back into stock on sites like Game Collection so I should probably grab it while I can.

The games filling our chart are all much stronger propositions. They have recognised brands, they have advertising, they have word of mouth, they fit the 3DS platform better, you can find them on shop shelves, they mostly got good reviews, and they're child friendly at a time where school holidays heavily impact sales. With our lagging release schedule some of those games are newer here than in the US.

I'm definitely interested in the Federation Force since there's at least a single player campaign/mode, so it's not exclusively multiplayer (if it were it'd be a non-starter for me).

However, since it is of limited appeal for a single player, it simply ranks lower than many other single-player focused titles coming out this fall. So unfortunately it goes on the "buy it later, probably on sale" pile for me. I got over the "it's not a Real Metroid game!" disappointment pretty quickly; maybe there's hope and I'm maturing past some of my old Gamer Entitlement Syndrome (because if I'm brutally honest with myself, I really fell into that camp in years past).

There's nothing wrong with me wanting something else, but I am trying to be open to gaming experiences that aren't what I requested.

Federation Force is on my short-list of things to pick up at some point. The review I read (Eurogamer, USGamer, maybe NintendoLife?) seemed to focus on the single-player viability as much as the multi-player which increased its appeal for me. I'm intrigued to play it but it's not a "hey hook this up to my veins right now" priority for me. That said, it's really a bummer it's not doing well in the UK and Japan. Although to be fair, it wasn't likely going to do well in Japan anyways but still.

I kinda feel like Nintendo just threw this out to die after the E3 reaction and continued apathy towards it. Might as well write it off as a loss and bury it with the piles of cash Sun & Moon will inevitably rake in, right?

On the other hand, it's depressing to see sites posting news about how it's a huge sales flop in each territory as the sales data comes in. Reminds me a lot of this blog post by Rob Fearon which was linked in the Game Industry thread a week or two ago:

The internet has decided the game is a failure. Sort of as it did when it decided Ghostbusters was a flop. The story has already been decided, now it’s just finding things to squeeze in to fit. It’s a fairly regular thing that the internet settles on its own stories and feeds itself, often with the press falling into it as well because in the world of an enthusiast press, there’s a Venn Diagram there of overlapping interests. Cutting through internet babble and the world outside an enthusiast bubble isn’t always simple.

I think there's a place for multiplayer co-op Metroid but I honestly have no idea how you thread the needle between what they did with Federation Force and just making everyone a Samus clone (which was Nintendo's MO when they wanted to do multiplayer Kirby and Zelda). Co-op Hunters with a bunch of different player characters? The game absolutely did not deserve the derision it got, and I'm kinda scratching my head here as to what exactly doomed this game which probably means it's a combination of things. *shrug*

Federation Force might have a surprisingly good single player campaign, but I see no reason to buy a multiplayer-focused game with a tacked-on single player mode when I can buy a different game that was designed from the ground up with a strong single player campaign as the primary focus. Maybe if I was still in college and had a roommate to play with I could see myself picking up the game, but I don't have anyone to play 3DS games with these days. I never thought I'd say this, but I think that Federation Force would have been better received as a Wii U game where each player doesn't need a 3DS and a copy of the game to play together.

Federation Force could have been a NX launch title. It may not have faired that much better, but I doubt it would have done any worse. Depending on what is available at launch, and what is bundled, it would surely have cast a wider net.

It's not available on Wii U. Were it, I would own it. If it had local co-op split via the GamePad and the TV, Spikeout and I would play through as a duo. I'd still have no time zone permitting friends (who own the game) to hook up with. And my one sale would do little to offset the tumbleweed wasteland that is the Wii U install base (at this time).

3DS is its home. I'm in a holding pattern until I see what the NX can do. It just needs to be revealed! An extra £80 - £150 (depending on model) goes a long way towards my potential NX buy. A coworker is in a similar spot. Spikeout is never going to own a 3DS. So I'm left with a potential delayed purchase on 3DS, for a likely solo campaign.

Federation Force never had a chance. Few Metroid fans appeared interested. The franchise isn't popular with the greater casual audience like a Super Mario or a Pokemon. Then you have a clutch of folks interested who don't have the correct Nintendo hardware, and are awaiting the NX reveal to see how that affects their buying decisions and their finances.

I feel like the gameplay didn't matter to the internet reaction, just the art. Then they piled on reasons after that.

Having read through the posts here I think I ought to accept that I myself was jumping the gun and playing the blame game on a specific reaction. In truth, I think Nintendo has failed to market this game. I even saw a Kirby Planet Robobot trailer in theaters before that released, but for as many visits as I've made to the movies leading up to Federation Force, I've seen nothing. If it's not available in shops in the UK, that will also not really help too much.

So there's a lot of blame to go around.

Last night I played level 7, which ends in quite an interesting boss fight. I was having fun until the final form of the monster had an insta-kill attack that is just really sh*tty in a single player experience without checkpoints. Multiplayer? Okay, sure, let's go with that. Single player? Sorry man but that's bullsh*t.

While the game has certainly done a better job than Triforce Heroes at being a satisfactory single player experience, it still needs multiple players.

Finally got some street passes yesterday at best buy.

Love the new bonus puzzle pieces!

Stele wrote:

Love the new bonus puzzle pieces!

That's the thing where it randomly just dumps a bunch of extra puzzle pieces off the person onto you right? Because that's a really freaking sweet way to get caught up on older puzzles now.

Yeah. For me it was like I chose a person who had 4-5 pieces I was missing on a particular puzzle, and I got them all.

Wish I could have got more global streetpasses last week, I might almost be caught up on puzzles.

As it is I think I finished all the pink pieces again at least.

I think I snagged 10-12 pieces off someone to finish up one of the Pikmin shorts in one rip. Best update!

This is thoughtful: the Animal Crossing New Leaf update that adds amiibo support will also remove all the weeds from your likely long-neglected towns. You can come back without having to mess with all the clean-up.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

This is thoughtful: the Animal Crossing New Leaf update that adds amiibo support will also remove all the weeds from your likely long-neglected towns. You can come back without having to mess with all the clean-up.

Oh geez, I really don't need to be pulled back into Animal Crossing.

I wonder if they might eliminate the weeds and other bad effects from neglecting your town in the next installment. I understand why they put it in, but on the other hand, it seems like bad sense to put in a mechanic that actively discourages people from picking the game back up if they've put it down for a while.

Now imagine if Nintendo did an Animal Crossing + Persona cross-over.

ccesarano wrote:

Now imagine if Nintendo did an Animal Crossing + Persona cross-over.

I really don't need a Tom Nook dating option.

ccesarano wrote:

Now imagine if Nintendo did an Animal Crossing + Persona cross-over.

Dating sim + community sim + RPG? That's basically Rune Factory, and it's glorious.

Oh my god, a Persona game with farming/(more fleshed out) fishing mechanics would be glorious.

Also reminds me I need to play Stardew Valley.

Demyx wrote:
ClockworkHouse wrote:

This is thoughtful: the Animal Crossing New Leaf update that adds amiibo support will also remove all the weeds from your likely long-neglected towns. You can come back without having to mess with all the clean-up.

Oh geez, I really don't need to be pulled back into Animal Crossing.

I wonder if they might eliminate the weeds and other bad effects from neglecting your town in the next installment. I understand why they put it in, but on the other hand, it seems like bad sense to put in a mechanic that actively discourages people from picking the game back up if they've put it down for a while.

New Leaf almost fixes this but you still have to manually weed if there's too many which put Lief into a full-on breakdown. So you then have to "race" him to weed the place but you end up doing like all the work.

Demyx wrote:

I understand why they put it in, but on the other hand, it seems like bad sense to put in a mechanic that actively discourages people from picking the game back up if they've put it down for a while.

The flipside of that is that it's a mechanic that also discourages you from not playing it. It's second cousin to all those daily check-ins and bonuses in F2P mobile games.

Demyx wrote:
ClockworkHouse wrote:

This is thoughtful: the Animal Crossing New Leaf update that adds amiibo support will also remove all the weeds from your likely long-neglected towns. You can come back without having to mess with all the clean-up.

Oh geez, I really don't need to be pulled back into Animal Crossing.

I wonder if they might eliminate the weeds and other bad effects from neglecting your town in the next installment. I understand why they put it in, but on the other hand, it seems like bad sense to put in a mechanic that actively discourages people from picking the game back up if they've put it down for a while.

With New Leaf, you can set a town ordinance that severely reduces the weeds.

cube wrote:

With New Leaf, you can set a town ordinance that severely reduces the weeds.

It also reduces the number of flowers that become "dry" and need watering. I sprung the 20k Bells for it with no regrets.

ClockworkHouse wrote:
Demyx wrote:

I understand why they put it in, but on the other hand, it seems like bad sense to put in a mechanic that actively discourages people from picking the game back up if they've put it down for a while.

The flipside of that is that it's a mechanic that also discourages you from not playing it. It's second cousin to all those daily check-ins and bonuses in F2P mobile games.

Well, I think that's the difference between positive and negative reinforcement. The fact that new events happen constantly, the stores have different stock every day, etc. encourages you to play it every day in a positive way. The weeds mechanic is more like "oh, I couldn't play this for a week, might as well never go back."

Other response: I knew about the ordinance, I just think that's additional evidence that they might do away with the mechanic entirely for the next installment instead of just optionally allowing you to remove it.

Demyx wrote:

Oh my god, a Persona game with farming/(more fleshed out) fishing mechanics would be glorious.

Also reminds me I need to play Stardew Valley.

I heard a rumor from some GameStop employees that Stardew Valley was coming to the 3DS (it was apparently available to preorder in their computer), but I couldn't find confirmation elsewhere.

Demyx wrote:

Well, I think that's the difference between positive and negative reinforcement. The fact that new events happen constantly, the stores have different stock every day, etc. encourages you to play it every day in a positive way. The weeds mechanic is more like "oh, I couldn't play this for a week, might as well never go back."

True, but there's also a difference between thematically strong mechanics and tacked on mechanics. The weeds fit into the game itself while daily logins are obvious tacked on top. I would not be surprised that daily positives increase retention better, but the weeds mechanic makes for an overall better game, IMO.

SixteenBlue wrote:
Demyx wrote:

Well, I think that's the difference between positive and negative reinforcement. The fact that new events happen constantly, the stores have different stock every day, etc. encourages you to play it every day in a positive way. The weeds mechanic is more like "oh, I couldn't play this for a week, might as well never go back."

True, but there's also a difference between thematically strong mechanics and tacked on mechanics. The weeds fit into the game itself while daily logins are obvious tacked on top. I would not be surprised that daily positives increase retention better, but the weeds mechanic makes for an overall better game, IMO.

I'm not sure how you consider the weeds thematically strong and the events and shop inventory changing each day to be tacked on.

Demyx wrote:
SixteenBlue wrote:
Demyx wrote:

Well, I think that's the difference between positive and negative reinforcement. The fact that new events happen constantly, the stores have different stock every day, etc. encourages you to play it every day in a positive way. The weeds mechanic is more like "oh, I couldn't play this for a week, might as well never go back."

True, but there's also a difference between thematically strong mechanics and tacked on mechanics. The weeds fit into the game itself while daily logins are obvious tacked on top. I would not be surprised that daily positives increase retention better, but the weeds mechanic makes for an overall better game, IMO.

I'm not sure how you consider the weeds thematically strong and the events and shop inventory changing each day to be tacked on.

Yeah sorry I confused myself, I was still mostly thinking about Clock's F2P daily login rewards thing. Ignore me.

So I had gotten Super Mario World on the WiiU VC, but after playing it a while the controls felt off. I kept feeling like I was over or under jumping. I just chalked it up to my memories being off. However, I just upgraded to the New 3DS, and got Super Mario World again (because, well, I must have all the Marios). I was pleasantly surprised that now the controls feel perfect again. Wondering if it's the pixel perfect mode. Anyone else notice this?

Also, yep, the bonus puzzle pieces are great. I got 15 off one person.