Feminism Catch-All (with FAQ)

The Hunger Games merchandising is just ridiculous for all sorts of reasons. I mean, c'mon, Subway? A sandwich shop is tied-in to a story of kids fighting to the death?

Oh, and I saw this at Walgreen's a little bit ago - Hunger Games by Cover Girl.

Nobody outside Districts 1 and 2 would be able to afford makeup. Also, District 11 is an Asian woman? If my memory of the book serves me right, they're basically like Black plantation Slaves in the Southern US. Even the geography jives.

But, anyway, back to feminism. This is a story where the heroine is purposefully not girly. She's a scrappy outdoorsman who does what she has to in order to survive. When she does get gussied up, it's against her will; the Capitol's stylist pushes it on her, and she complies, in order to survive.

New topic: Miley thinks she's "one of the biggest feminists in the world."

Let's all recite the wisdom of Inigo Montoya:

IMAGE(http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/9e/9e7e9dea082b041d688e0bd10e2cc0ec984947d11aab246df8cf1be99c09c58e.jpg)

Women for a girl to look up to (in pictures):

Photographer Jaime Moore wanted to mark her daughter's fifth birthday but before switching on the camera, she came up with an alternative to dressing up as a princess – the dream of most girls of her age

IMAGE(http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/11/13/1384341914132/Amelia-Earhart-and-Emma--001.jpg)

IMAGE(http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/11/13/1384341920236/Helen-Keller-and-Emma--003.jpg)

sometimesdee wrote:
Oh, and I saw this at Walgreen's a little bit ago - Hunger Games by Cover Girl.

Yuuuup, I also balked at seeing a commercial for that on TV. The whole idea of makeup in the Hunger Games is that it is for the privileged elite, who are actually the bad guys in the story. Just makes me shake my head.

momgamer wrote:
I (and my daughters) generally prefer something like this:

http://www.jeremyclough.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/steam2.jpg

Can we make you the official Mom of America? If nothing else, our kids would be playing with cooler toys.

stevenmack wrote:
Women for a girl to look up to (in pictures):

Photographer Jaime Moore wanted to mark her daughter's fifth birthday but before switching on the camera, she came up with an alternative to dressing up as a princess – the dream of most girls of her age

IMAGE(http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/11/13/1384341914132/Amelia-Earhart-and-Emma--001.jpg)

IMAGE(http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/11/13/1384341920236/Helen-Keller-and-Emma--003.jpg)

Folks, click through and look at all the pictures, they're wonderful!
I love the hellen keller one, too.

If you're looking for more things in that vein next time you need a costume, check out Take Back Halloween, which has how-to's for all sorts of cool semi-historical costumes.

Here's the link to their 2013 Halloween costume contest.

A couple of examples:
Best Notable Woman:
IMAGE(http://takebackhalloween.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/best-three-costumes-1240x700-notable-620x350.jpg)

Best Notable Woman, Junior (Junior winners weren't ranked):
IMAGE(http://takebackhalloween.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/best-three-costumes-1240x700-junior-notable-620x350.jpg)

So that crossbow... I'm not keen on the name, but the design and colouring are really great. I mean, I really want to find a pair for myself.

I probably wouldn't have an issue with them if they weren't Hunger Games branded. Hunger Games isn't about pretty things, it's about brutal and gritty and terrifying things. I think Hunger Games merchandising aimed at kids is fairly questionable as it is, but colouring them pink and giving them girly names also makes them completely tone-deaf.

As an aside, I seem to have less of a problem with the colour pink being marketed at girls than other people. Perhaps because culturally it seems to me to be less of a 'female thing', and more of a 'not-male thing'. I suspect that your chances of liking the colour pink are probably equal regardless of your gender, but boys just deny it because they don't want to seem girly. Silly boys are missing out.

Edit: I just noticed these aren't actually Hunger Games branded. Just "coincidentally" (delete or leave quotation marks as desired) they've been timed to release when Hunger Games is a big deal. I guess I have less of a problem with them then. This is purely from a design perspective mind you, I'd be willing to guess the marketing surrounding the product is just awful.

Edit2: I realise they're from a while back in the thread. My internet broke this weekend, I'm catching up!

I forget if we're putting TvW episodes here too. If we aren't, I'll remove it and replace it with...something. Anyway:

We're GoldieBlox, a toy company out to show the world that girls deserve more choices than dolls and princesses

site
and ad

Argh, I just came here to post that!

We bought the onesie as soon as the video ended. Will post a pic when we get it.

IMAGE(http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0178/6531/products/Onesie-3_large.jpg)

I like it! Can't wait to see the pic in the parent thread, Gravey. Too bad I'm having another boy, heh.

The founder of GoldieBlox gave this awesome TEDtalk about the gender gap in engineering, too.

This is a good first step to get them hooked. A great next step for sustaining the enthusiasm are good math and science teachers that encourage growth throughout their schooling. I will be buying some of these things as soon as I can for my niece (3).

Also:

IMAGE(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BZfcyxbCUAARURA.jpg:large)

My 5 year d daughter saw a more straightforward commercial for the GoldieBox and immediately asked for one. I think they really nailed the design.

GoldieBlox are interesting from a marketing perspective, as an exercise in spotting the gap in the market and filling it, but I can't resolve my internal dichotomy between "yay for not gendering types of toys" i.e. blocks are for boys, dolls are for girls, and "boo for totally gendering the sh*t out of this particular toy".

IMAGE(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/projects/283701/photo-main.jpg?1351643927)

A quick Google image search shows that the product is very heavily gendered in it's design and it's marketing. I can't fault the makers for doing so - it seems self evident that in order to compete in the US toy market, you have to gender the sh*t out of your product, but they seem to be talking out of both sides of their mouths. The "About" page of their website had a big title that says

"Disrupting the pink aisle."

I look from that to pictures of the product, and I'm seeing very little in the way of disruption of stock-gender aethetics or gender-normalizing. It's all princess this and pink that.

So, all of that said, with a girl currently finishing baking in this engineer's wife's belly, I'll no doubt be all up in this shiznit come Christmas 2020.

1. Pink it up to get foot in the door
2. Succeed, build empire
3. Do what you really want

At least, that's my hope. To subvert the norm you sometimes need to embrace, address, and then destroy it.

If nothing else, it's at least playing with it is not just passive tending of things, which to me is the real problem with the "pink aisle."

Jonman wrote:
"Disrupting the pink aisle."

This part bothered me the most. Probably because I had an interview a couple years ago where the VP said some variant of "disrupt" 13 times in a one-minute description of the company.

The No-Makeup Myth

IMAGE(http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1470802/thumbs/n-SIERRAMCKENZIE1119-large570.jpg?6)

Most people think the picture on the right doesn't have makeup. In fact, I find that when most guys say they prefer a girl who doesn't wear makeup, they really mean they want the girl in the right picture.

sometimesdee wrote:
The No-Makeup Myth

IMAGE(http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1470802/thumbs/n-SIERRAMCKENZIE1119-large570.jpg?6)

Most people think the picture on the right doesn't have makeup. In fact, I find that when most guys say they prefer a girl who doesn't wear makeup, they really mean they want the girl in the right picture.

Yes, but I put this in the same bin as guys who wear facial hair to cover up imperfections. While she is applying makeup, she is doing it to cover blemishes more than she is to change the colors of her face.

Nevin73 wrote:
she is doing it to cover blemishes more than she is to change the colors of her face.

I don't see a functional difference between those two.

sometimesdee wrote:
The No-Makeup Myth

IMAGE(http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1470802/thumbs/n-SIERRAMCKENZIE1119-large570.jpg?6)

Most people think the picture on the right doesn't have makeup. In fact, I find that when most guys say they prefer a girl who doesn't wear makeup, they really mean they want the girl in the right picture.

It's more evident in person. I actually prefer the girl in the left picture. The girl in the right pic is what I would expect for pictorials and stuff. Of course, everyone wears makeup for those, even me.

That's because you don't have a whole industry and society telling you that if you don't step out of the house like the girl on the right you're horribly wrong.

What she did there was a heck of a lot more than letting hair grow to cover a scar. And there's a huge pressure on her to do it every single minute of every single day. There is a multi-billion dollar industry making money on capitalizing and maintaining this.

When your friend growing the beard has to spend hundreds of dollars a month to keep it up, carry around a bag of stuff with him to keep it up, with magazines and media in all directions making him aware of it every minute, then talk to me about how there's no functional difference.

edit: Sorry - I was talking to Seth and the guys above, and Larry and I cross-posted.

momgamer wrote:
That's because you don't have a whole industry and society telling you that if you don't step out of the house like the girl on the right you're horribly wrong.

What she did there was a heck of a lot more than letting hair grow to cover a scar. And there's a huge pressure on her to do it every single minute of every single day. There is a multi-billion dollar industry making money on capitalizing and maintaining this.

When your friend growing the beard has to spend hundreds of dollars a month to keep it up, carry around a bag of stuff with him to keep it up, with magazines and media in all directions making him aware of it every minute, then talk to me about how there's no functional difference.

edit: Sorry - I was talking to Seth and the guys above, and Larry and I cross-posted.

My apologies, I may not have been clear enough -- I was trying to say that wearing makeup to cover blemishes is the same as wearing makeup to "change colors of the face," and that institutions have gotten so successful at requiring women to do it that men are utterly ignorant when it happens -- hence the cognitive dissonance. When men say "I like women with no makeup" they really mean the girl on the right.

In other words I'm 100% on board with everything you said, momgamer.

Yeah, I'm sorry - what you guys said comes off as completely the opposite of that.

Part of the difference might also be that you don't understand what is required to go from the left to the right there.

She didn't just smear on some foundation to cover the blotches to make that change. Both her eyebrows have gone through some major work. She's also done some work on her lips - she's wearing a sheer colored gloss of some kind. She's also wearing eye makeup - mascara and primer at least.

(Though for professional pride's sake I do have to point out the right picture is Photoshopped at least in part. That's another giant can of worms, though.)

I prefer the picture of the girl on the right, but I'm pretty damn sure that I would prefer the girl on the left as a partner.

Okay I've been staring at the photo for 3 solid minutes. How on earth can you tell it's shopped?

Seth wrote:
Okay I've been staring at the photo for 3 solid minutes. How on earth can you tell it's shopped?

Definitely the pixels.

You have to zoom in and use some tools. If you look around her ears there are phantom hairs clipped out on both sides. There's a disturbance in the background gradient you can see. Also note the little hairs around the edge of her bun and drifting around are in EXACTLY the same position - even those ghost hairs. Just the movement of air in the room would have changed it. There is no way they blended foundation all the way up into her hairline like that without shifting the individual hairs at her hairline AT ALL - that little widow's peak at least would be shifted a bit, but it's identical to the pixel.

And the position is too perfectly matched. If she'd taken the one pic and then gone and done makeup and taken the second pic there would be very subtle differences in her stance. Even the same muscles in her shoulder and neck are tightened. Her ears are lined up the same, to the pixel level. And her pupils and the reflections in her eyes are also aligned to the pixel.

My guess would be is they cleaned up the background at the very least. Then if they did use actual makeup to make her up they pasted the made-up section of face into the middle so as not to do it twice and then went in an blended the two together. It's really easy to do. I'd have to have an original to be absolutely certain. Making the picture web-ready blends a lot of stuff together and cuts down on the amount of information you have to work with.

I do need to point out I'm not in any way invalidating the base premise of the comparison picture. The way you literally never see any woman ever go out without the benefit of Ms. Clairol in her hair, Max Factor on her nose (and in the case of print they add our friends at Adobe) has become so pervasive people think that is how women actually look is a real problem. This is part and parcel of the issues we've talked about before with body image. If you're standing there in the morning at the mirror and your reflection looks like the gal on the left, but everyone and everything around you looks like the girl on the right, it's a huge pressure.

And it's not all in your head. People treat you differently, in ways that seriously impact your professional and private lives. Here's a study - http://www.plosone.org/article/info%...

.....wow. I am in awe of that analysis.