Linux General Questions

Lex Cayman wrote:

I also have a CentOS server setup that I can switch to with a hotkey combination of alt+F6. I programmed that to one of the big macro buttons on my gaming keyboard. I have another less-frequently-used Mac laptop that is setup similarly.

Talk to me about this. I don't want my alternate machines set up to be positioned as attachments to my main viewport, but being able to hotkey to them KVM-style to start using my input devices on them would be grand.

With that, I could hook my MB Air up to my main monitor via an HDMI switch, and then just HDMI switch + Synergy hotkey to start using it on my main screen.

Am I understanding things right?

Malor wrote:
This was added in GNOME 3.4 -- it's a good example of the devs adding functionality back in to the desktop incrementally. GNOME 3.0 removed a lot of functionality, and the developers did that deliberately

In a world where they also deliberately broke GNOME 2.0, so that you couldn't have both on the same machine at the same time, this is absolutely unacceptable. Utterly, absolutely unacceptable.

Some of us out here are trying to do work with our machines.

Utterly, absolutely unacceptable to you, perhaps, but the horror of having to install a small third-party tool to tweak my fonts wasn't really that horrible after all -- it only took a minute. Some of us have been doing work under GNOME 3 (and I mean all day, day in, day out -- not just a few hours after work here and there) for months.

I don't disagree that those settings should probably be within the scope of the standard config tools that ship with GNOME -- most people won't need them, but it would be great if they were there. However, I do think you're drastically overselling their omission. Are you really arguing that GNOME 3 is completely unusable because it takes you an extra minute to change the fonts the first time you decide to do it? That seems a bit extreme to me.

I do think there are more serious omissions from GNOME 3 that are worth worrying about (improved multi-monitor support would be great, and I really do miss GNOME 2's world clock, which has only returned as an unfinished preview in GNOME 3.6), but I still think that GNOME 3 is heading in the right direction for the most part, and I expect all the important stuff to find its way back in eventually. Even without those, I find it to be a more productive environment than GNOME 2 -- it keeps out of my way when I'm just getting on with things, but if I need to switch between windows, or launch a new app, the Activities overview is great. Being able to search for and launch apps without touching the mouse is particularly handy.

I don't know if you've been using Linux long enough to remember it, but when GNOME 2.0 came out in 2002, people were having this exact same conversation. Power-users were up in arms because GNOME 2.0 stripped out a lot of the features that were found in GNOME 1.4, but the point releases that followed slowly polished the rough edges and added back all the important features in improved ways. It took some time, but the end result was a desktop that had been streamlined and simplified without sacrificing any really important functionality, and it was a far, far better experience for all of that. I haven't seen anything yet to suggest that GNOME 3 won't turn out the same.

pneuman wrote:

I don't disagree that those settings should probably be within the scope of the standard config tools that ship with GNOME -- most people won't need them, but it would be great if they were there. However, I do think you're drastically overselling their omission. Are you really arguing that GNOME 3 is completely unusable because it takes you an extra minute to change the fonts the first time you decide to do it? That seems a bit extreme to me.

The problem is discoverability. You have to know that gnome-tweak-tool exists and to go install it. It's not unreasonable to expect font sizing to be part of the DE's settings (although I think its importance is taking on a bit too large of a role in the scope of this discussion).

I remember GNOME 2.0, and although it did get good in later releases, I think it's still bad for a project to be that shoddy when it's a .0 release. Both GNOME 3 and Unity really crapped the bed for their initial releases, which wouldn't be so bad except they expected people to use them, and behaved as such (default DE in Ubuntu in Unity's case, completely EOL'ing GNOME 2 in GNOME 3's case).

Users shouldn't go from a nice polished GNOME 2.x experience to getting thrown into a world with a half-broken Unity and a half-broken GNOME 3. There was a gentle transition period that should have existed there that didn't. And that's mostly GNOME's fault, as Unity wouldn't have been a big deal if users could have simply run apt-get install gnome-2.

That said, GNOME 3 is much more complete now, and certain nitpicks are being blown well out of proportion.

*Legion* wrote:
Lex Cayman wrote:

I also have a CentOS server setup that I can switch to with a hotkey combination of alt+F6. I programmed that to one of the big macro buttons on my gaming keyboard. I have another less-frequently-used Mac laptop that is setup similarly.

Talk to me about this. I don't want my alternate machines set up to be positioned as attachments to my main viewport, but being able to hotkey to them KVM-style to start using my input devices on them would be grand.

With that, I could hook my MB Air up to my main monitor via an HDMI switch, and then just HDMI switch + Synergy hotkey to start using it on my main screen.

Am I understanding things right?

Yes. My Windows box is my primary machine, and it is set up as the server, so I'm posting screens of the nice, pretty GUI admin interface.

My screen config (I just did a reinstall due to a strategic SSD acquisition, so I don't have all of my machines added back):
IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/y5oXx.png)

And here is my hotkey config:
IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/jPUfM.png)

Then, if I need to, I just change the input source on whatever monitor I have the box hooked up to. You really can't beat the setup for the price.

It appears advanced configuration like that has to be done in a text config file on a Linux host. I was able to get a simple "make my Air be left-of my Linux 3-screen display" working immediately with the QuickSynergy GUI, but I think I'll have to dive into text config to get the kind of config I'm looking for.

Still, I was encouraged by the relative responsiveness of the input devices on the Air in my initial test.

*Legion* wrote:
pneuman wrote:

I don't disagree that those settings should probably be within the scope of the standard config tools that ship with GNOME -- most people won't need them, but it would be great if they were there. However, I do think you're drastically overselling their omission. Are you really arguing that GNOME 3 is completely unusable because it takes you an extra minute to change the fonts the first time you decide to do it? That seems a bit extreme to me.

The problem is discoverability. You have to know that gnome-tweak-tool exists and to go install it. It's not unreasonable to expect font sizing to be part of the DE's settings (although I think its importance is taking on a bit too large of a role in the scope of this discussion).

Yep, totally agreed, and I'm glad that sizing at least is a standard part of the settings now. I'd agree, too, that it probably should have been there in 3.0, but now that we're 18 months down the track, I don't think it's fair to keep browbeating it over things that have been added in the interim (not saying that you have been, but I definitely see a lot of "I tried GNOME 3.0, and it was crap, so it must still be crap today" sentiment online).

*Legion* wrote:

I remember GNOME 2.0, and although it did get good in later releases, I think it's still bad for a project to be that shoddy when it's a .0 release. Both GNOME 3 and Unity really crapped the bed for their initial releases, which wouldn't be so bad except they expected people to use them, and behaved as such (default DE in Ubuntu in Unity's case, completely EOL'ing GNOME 2 in GNOME 3's case).

Users shouldn't go from a nice polished GNOME 2.x experience to getting thrown into a world with a half-broken Unity and a half-broken GNOME 3. There was a gentle transition period that should have existed there that didn't. And that's mostly GNOME's fault, as Unity wouldn't have been a big deal if users could have simply run apt-get install gnome-2.

That said, GNOME 3 is much more complete now, and certain nitpicks are being blown well out of proportion.

Yep, agreed there, too. I keep mentioning GNOME 2 as a positive example of how the developers could strip back the desktop and then improve it over time until it far surpasses the previous version, but it's also a negative example of how they did piss off a lot of people by pushing out a desktop that maybe wasn't ready for prime-time, and it's a shame they did the same thing again with GNOME 3.0.

They made a mistake; they didn't commit genocide. If you didn't want to upgrade to an OS that offered you no options other than GNOME 3 or Unity, then you didn't have to -- it's not like every GNOME 2 desktop self-destructed the moment GNOME 3.0 was released.

To be frank, it's not your place to tell me or anyone else what desktop they should or shouldn't use. I've been using Linux for long enough to make up my own mind about such things, and I'm going to continue to use, enjoy, and be productive with GNOME 3, despite the grevious personal harm this seems to do to you. Keep on grinding that axe if you want, but I don't have any particular desire to continue to justify my choice of desktop to you.

pneuman wrote:

To be frank, it's not your place to tell me or anyone else what desktop they should or shouldn't use.

This just got personal...

I trust nobody that deliberately breaks my software. You can do whatever you like, but I can also hold whatever opinion I like about the intelligence of doing so.

and it's a shame they did the same thing again with GNOME 3.0.

It's not a shame, it means you can't trust those knuckleheads, and you shouldn't use their desktop. Same with KDE. And God only knows Canonical is doing with Unity. Even the most recent versions are horrible.

edit: and note that the GNOME team didn't just do the same thing again, they actively broke the old software. That's one of the most severe cases of encephalorectumitis I've seen in a large software team.

Malor wrote:

I trust nobody that deliberately breaks my software. You can do whatever you like, but I can also hold whatever opinion I like about the intelligence of doing so.

You frequently go beyond stating your opinion. In addition you rarely let anyone else do whatever they like, instead you call them part of the problem and blast them for not doing what you like.

In addition you rarely let anyone else do whatever they like

Wow, I'm far more powerful than ever I dared to dream!

Lex Cayman wrote:

Then, if I need to, I just change the input source on whatever monitor I have the box hooked up to. You really can't beat the setup for the price.

Just wanted to come back and say that I got this setup on my Linux desktop. Now I'm able to share my keyboard & mouse with my MB Air without having to fuss with a KVM (which is a pain to re-hook every time I actually take the laptop away from my desk and use it as a, well, laptop). My external connections are now down to just the video out plug, which is a lot nicer and less messy on my desk.

One thing with Mac laptops is that they require external keyboard/mouse to be plugged in to not go to sleep when closed. Synergy appears to fulfill this requirement, allowing me to still use the machine when closed, whereas not having Synergy and trying to VNC or something would fail, as the laptop would go to sleep.

It's not perfect - I would love to get a Mac Mini and have it permanently hooked up with a KVM - but it's the best solution I've found yet for getting my MB Air on my big screen with my desktop inputs.

So, thanks Lex for the tip and the example. Your screenshot gave me the idea of defining a "dummy" machine in order to move my laptop away from my desktop's screen edges. (The text config has no diagonal definitions, only up/down/left/right, so making a dummy to the right and then my laptop above that accomplished what I needed).

*Legion* wrote:

So, thanks Lex for the tip and the example. Your screenshot gave me the idea of defining a "dummy" machine in order to move my laptop away from my desktop's screen edges. (The text config has no diagonal definitions, only up/down/left/right, so making a dummy to the right and then my laptop above that accomplished what I needed).

Glad to hear it. Just trying to spread the good word. I can't believe no one has baked this into an OS yet, but It guess it's better for the Synergy guys this way.

I am trying to switch away from Windows. But so dependent on certain software. I can deal with that.
But Linux is still stupidly screwy at times, that makes me just want to walk away from it.

Have the following issues:
Youtube movies show the wrong colours. I reinstalled flash, even with sudo app-get. No changes.
Firefox will not remember my passwords. Won't even offer to. Turned off and back on. No changes

Interesting issues... I haven't heard of the Youtube issue.

For the Firefox issue, I assume it's happened before, Google will find it. I was having that same type of issue in Chrome on my Macbook, it would never keep me signed into websites. As soon as I closed the browser *foom*, re-login to every website. I had to find all the cookies and delete them, I don't remember if it was manually or if it worked through the Chrome settings.

Some distributions do their own little modifications to some apps, for example Mint changes how you get extra search engines into the search box so they can have duck duck go instead of google, and bury google a little on their webpage.

Which distro are you using? Most of them have different approaches to how up to date with applications, so some might be a little behind which can have some issues which might have fixes already available.

Ubuntu, the most generic version of Linux

Also, where do I find my applications to launch?
Do I have to use the Dash Home and search?
How about a list that shows them all. I know I can
see all installed applications (Software Centre). But that's not a great
way to go about it.

and while I am at it: what podcast app do you guys use? Would like ease of use for subscriptions etc.
---update---
Checking out Gpodder atm

You can show a list of all installed applications by opening the launcher (win key), Ctrl + Tab over to applications, Tab, Tab down to installed, hit enter to expand the full list. Tab over a couple more times and you can open the filter to select specific application categories. It's still not a fantastic interface, and they've designed the whole thing with the expectation that you'll just use the search like the windows 7 start menu.

The vast majority of my podcast consumption is via my iPhone, so I don't really have anything other than blind suggestions. The default iTunes-like Rhythmbox will do podcasts, though not very elegantly. In previous releases Ubuntu used Banshee as the default media center, which also does podcasts and always seemed more fully featured to me than Rhythmbox. Miro has noble aspirations but is rather unstable on Windows, and on Ubuntu as well judging from the software center reviews.

Edit: gpodder looks great! I'll have to try it as a replacement for Miro on windows.

Thanks for the short cuts psoplayer. Love shortcuts and will look for more of those
It's not an awfull way having to go about it this way. But not very elegant either.
Will have to do for now I suppose.

Forgot about Miro. But gpodder is looking quite nice. So will give that one a chance first.

Sparhawk wrote:

Youtube movies show the wrong colours. I reinstalled flash, even with sudo app-get. No changes.

If you're using an NVIDIA card, then this is due to a bug in the video drivers. You can work around it by disabling hardware acceleration in Flash -- right-click on a video, go in to Flash's settings, and you should see the option in there somewhere.

pneuman wrote:
Sparhawk wrote:

Youtube movies show the wrong colours. I reinstalled flash, even with sudo app-get. No changes.

If you're using an NVIDIA card, then this is due to a bug in the video drivers. You can work around it by disabling hardware acceleration in Flash -- right-click on a video, go in to Flash's settings, and you should see the option in there somewhere.

I get the menu, I see where to disable it. But can't. It won't let me click on it, or even get rid of that window again...pfff
Will keep trying, after a reboot as well. Thanks

If you go to the Hardware Drivers application (I think that's what it's called), you should see your NVidia card's driver listed, and you should also see some other options, including the new version 310 betas. Per NVidia, 310 is way way better, so you might try upgrading to that. Note that it needs a full reboot after updating that driver. (which is annoying, I thought reboots were supposed to be a Windows thing. )

I installed the 310. After the second try it installed. After reboot still same issues though.
The window with settings will show, nothing is clickable and after a while the flash crashes within the browser.
Will have to dig some more into the forums I am afraid. But thanks for the suggestion

Sparhawk wrote:

I installed the 310. After the second try it installed. After reboot still same issues though.
The window with settings will show, nothing is clickable and after a while the flash crashes within the browser.
Will have to dig some more into the forums I am afraid. But thanks for the suggestion :)

That's really weird -- here if I right-click on a Flash video and select "Settings", I get a little dialog box with an "Enable hardware acceleration" option that I can disable. That doesn't happen for you?

The other option to try would be to enable HTML5 on YouTube; that'd solve the problem there, but you'd still have issues with Flash on other video sites.

Okay, I'm up and running in Xubuntu 12.04 right now (which is Ubuntu with the XFCE window manager by default, instead of horrible Unity), and Youtube videos look normal to me. In what way are the colors incorrect?

If you go into the NVidia settings, which on XFCE is under (start icon)/System/NVidia X Server Settings, what does it say for Screen Number, Depth, GPU, and Displays?

I'm wondering if maybe you got set into one of the old 256-color modes, which would make colors look very strange.

Malor wrote:

Okay, I'm up and running in Xubuntu 12.04 right now (which is Ubuntu with the XFCE window manager by default, instead of horrible Unity), and Youtube videos look normal to me. In what way are the colors incorrect?

If it's the problem I'm thinking of (which I've had myself), the colours look kinda inverted -- I'm not sure exactly what happens, but skin tones looked blue, for instance. It was a weird interaction between Flash and the NVIDIA drivers, and turning off hardware acceleration in Flash fixed it. That doesn't seem to be necessary for me now, though, so it seems to have been fixed somewhere along the way, at least on my hardware.

Here's one. My linux test disc is currently an nasty old noisy 80GB PATA drive, and my usual drives are SATA on an intel ICH9 chip. Whenever I'm doing some intensive disk IO the system goes through various stages of unresponsiveness, although periodically it'll come back and catch up for a few seconds, and when the IO is done it's back to normal. System monitor doesn't show my CPUs getting pegged to 100% or high memory usage, so is there anything I can check/change to make this better? On Mint 13.

Scratched wrote:

Here's one. My linux test disc is currently an nasty old noisy 80GB PATA drive, and my usual drives are SATA on an intel ICH9 chip. Whenever I'm doing some intensive disk IO the system goes through various stages of unresponsiveness, although periodically it'll come back and catch up for a few seconds, and when the IO is done it's back to normal. System monitor doesn't show my CPUs getting pegged to 100% or high memory usage, so is there anything I can check/change to make this better? On Mint 13.

There are a few command-line tools that you can use to help diagnose IO issues:
* Run "top", and look at the iowait stat -- that's the "%wa" value in the "Cpu(s)" line. iowait is essentially the amount of CPU time being wasted waiting for the IO subsystem to do something, so if you see high values there, it shows that your system is bogging down waiting for IO
* "iostat", which is in the sysstat package, will show you the amount of IO happening to/from each of your drives. Run it as "iostat -k 1" to have it output in KB/s, and update once each second; change the 1 to a larger number for less frequent updates
* "hdparm" is, among other things, a simple benchmark tool that can tell you if your drive is working as you'd expect it to. Run it as "sudo hdparm -Tt /dev/sda" to run a benchmark on your first hard drive. The second figure is what you're after -- that's a quick stat of the raw read speed of the drive. For a drive of that vintage, I'd worry if the speed is under about 30MB/s.

It's possible that your IDE controller is just not very good -- have you used it much before now? Intel hasn't included one for ages, AFAIK, so it'll be some third-party chip that may just not perform very well.