Margaret Thatcher dead at 87

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BBC wrote:
Former Prime Minister Baroness Thatcher has died "peacefully" at the age of 87 after suffering a stroke, her family has announced.

Successor David Cameron called her a "great Briton" and the Queen spoke of her sadness at the death.

Lady Thatcher was Conservative prime minister from 1979 to 1990. She was the first woman to hold the role.

She will not have a state funeral but will be accorded the same status as Princess Diana and the Queen Mother.

At least her dementia came after she was in office.

How's Canadian collaborator Mulroney's health?

Guess Harry finally tracked down the last of her Horcruxes.

Without Ms. Thatcher we would not have V for Vendetta.

And the rule of three is complete for another cycle. Ebert, Uncle Vernon, and now Margaret Thatcher.

RIP Lady Thatcher. You were pretty awesome.

Demosthenes wrote:

And the rule of three is complete for another cycle. Ebert, Uncle Vernon, and now Margaret Thatcher.

RIP Lady Thatcher. You were pretty awesome.

I take it you have never lived in the UK then. Or that 'awesome' is sarcastic.

It's weird how loved she still is in much of the US, and how hated she is in much of the UK. I've received an education from a family friend who lives in Yorkshire, and totally agree with the bad blood which she created with her domestic policies. In the US we saw a strong leader who was Reagan-like in her willingness to make tough choices and match words with action. She was the type to tell Bush that he was being gutless when he questioned going into Kuwait. The impact she had here was very positive. It wasn't anything like the impact she had at home.

LouZiffer wrote:

It's weird how loved she still is in much of the US, and how hated she is in much of the UK. I've received an education from a family friend who lives in Yorkshire, and totally agree with the bad blood which she created with her domestic policies. In the US we saw a strong leader who was Reagan-like in her willingness to make tough choices and match words with action. She was the type to tell Bush that he was being gutless when he questioned going into Kuwait. The impact she had here was very positive. It wasn't anything like the impact she had at home.

Then again, Reagan's lionized by most of America for the same self-destructive policies. We might just not have a very good sense of cause and effect.

I was listening to NPR today. It seems a stretch, but people are seeking to draw a connection between the Falklands and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Those of us who didn't like Reagan weren't so keen on Thatcher either.

Her death came too late for a lot of people, around 30 years too late. Oh and now her boys Cameron and Osbourne are finishing the job. Tonight a lot of people are very happy, I have already been invited to a Thatcher's dead piss up.

...ok, apparently I need to read more history on her or something. I always got the vibe of quiet but badass, like Janet Reno or something... apparently this is not really the case and I'm curious now.

Regardless of how you feel about someone, isn't celebrating their death a little extreme?

obirano wrote:

Regardless of how you feel about someone, isn't celebrating their death a little extreme?

Nope.

obirano wrote:

Regardless of how you feel about someone, isn't celebrating their death a little extreme?

Wasn't Easter last week?

KingGorilla wrote:
obirano wrote:

Regardless of how you feel about someone, isn't celebrating their death a little extreme?

Wasn't Easter last week?

Touché.

Demosthenes wrote:

...ok, apparently I need to read more history on her or something. I always got the vibe of quiet but badass, like Janet Reno or something... apparently this is not really the case and I'm curious now.

How about: a politician who dismantled the unions and dismantled british manufacturing. Began the privitisation of most british public services, which without exception have gone on to perform more poorly and more expensively than when they were under national control. And to top it off started a pointless war over a tiny chunk of rock in the atlantic to distract the populace from what the tories were doing at home in order to win another term in office.

DanB wrote:

And to top it off started a pointless war over a tiny chunk of rock in the atlantic to distract the populace from what the tories were doing at home in order to win another term in office.

Pretty sure that we didn't start the Falklands war, considering that they were invaded by Argentina.

In all honesty, I would rather people be consistent. Some strange statute of limitations or moratorium on when it is OK and not OK to criticize, have strong negative feelings, etc. about someone seems arbitrary. As has been stated many of the policies put in place by the Thatcher Administration have had negative effects on the Modern UK.

KingGorilla wrote:

In all honesty, I would rather people be consistent. Some strange statute of limitations or moratorium on when it is OK and not OK to criticize, have strong negative feelings, etc. about someone seems arbitrary. As has been stated many of the policies put in place by the Thatcher Administration have had negative effects on the Modern UK.

I'm not saying you can't criticize or have negative feelings about someone. Heck, there isn any time limit on that in my opinion. Celebrating that they are dead seems to be another thing.

I don't really care.

I did celebrate when she was forced out of office (I was working out at a major company, and even their stock market analysts were cheering when it came on the TV around lunchtime), but I am not minded to celebrate her death.

I do, however, hope that hell exists, and that she spends an eternity burning in it - while being forced to write 'greed is NOT good' in her own blood and talk to yuppy Cockney stockbrokers when they turn up to join her there. If you tell them there's a squash court and BMW dealerships there, they'll not notice that they are frying in their own fat.

Demosthenes wrote:

...ok, apparently I need to read more history on her or something. I always got the vibe of quiet but badass, like Janet Reno or something...

No

No no

No no no no no.

A lot of people...a great many people ABSOLUTLY HATED HER.
And what you need to understand is that hatred is too small a word for the bile, loathing, and utter festering, feculant contempt people have for her. Think I'm exaggerating? Do some googling. You'll discover I'm not.

The CBS narrative on their morning show was she was "the leader who changed Britain from a manufacturing economy to a more modern one." Like postwar England was a bunch of shirtsleeved men in tweed caps operating cotton gins.

strangederby wrote:
Demosthenes wrote:

...ok, apparently I need to read more history on her or something. I always got the vibe of quiet but badass, like Janet Reno or something...

No

No no

No no no no no.

A lot of people...a great many people ABSOLUTLY HATED HER.
And what you need to understand is that hatred is too small a word for the bile, loathing, and utter festering, feculant contempt people have for her. Think I'm exaggerating? Do some googling. You'll discover I'm not.

If she was so hated, how did she keep getting elected?

H.P. Lovesauce wrote:

The CBS narrative on their morning show was she was "the leader who changed Britain from a manufacturing economy to a more modern one." Like postwar England was a bunch of shirtsleeved men in tweed caps operating cotton gins.

it was like that but that was how we liked it.

obirano wrote:
strangederby wrote:
Demosthenes wrote:

...ok, apparently I need to read more history on her or something. I always got the vibe of quiet but badass, like Janet Reno or something...

No

No no

No no no no no.

A lot of people...a great many people ABSOLUTLY HATED HER.
And what you need to understand is that hatred is too small a word for the bile, loathing, and utter festering, feculant contempt people have for her. Think I'm exaggerating? Do some googling. You'll discover I'm not.

If she was so hated, how did she keep getting elected?

broad press support from the murdoch controlled tabloids press. Good marketing/PR and the total lack of a credible opposition party through most of the 80s and early 90s

onewild wrote:
DanB wrote:

And to top it off started a pointless war over a tiny chunk of rock in the atlantic to distract the populace from what the tories were doing at home in order to win another term in office.

Pretty sure that we didn't start the Falklands war, considering that they were invaded by Argentina.

true but there is little credible reason why we needed to retaliate other than to win a war which the tories could milk for votes

obirano wrote:

If she was so hated, how did she keep getting elected?

Remember Dubya? Hated, right? Elected, right?

DanB wrote:
Demosthenes wrote:

...ok, apparently I need to read more history on her or something. I always got the vibe of quiet but badass, like Janet Reno or something... apparently this is not really the case and I'm curious now.

How about: a politician who dismantled the unions and dismantled british manufacturing. Began the privitisation of most british public services, which without exception have gone on to perform more poorly and more expensively than when they were under national control. And to top it off started a pointless war over a tiny chunk of rock in the atlantic to distract the populace from what the tories were doing at home in order to win another term in office.

Don't forget http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_28 (Section 28)

Or the stealing of milk from school children.

Here we go...

Jonman wrote:
obirano wrote:

If she was so hated, how did she keep getting elected?

Remember Dubya? Hated, right? Elected, right?

So that means someone obviously liked him. Remember Obama? Hated by tons of people as well? Elected again.

I am just trying to feel out whether this is a party thing that is being applied to the whole country or actually a whole country thing.

obirano wrote:
Jonman wrote:
obirano wrote:

If she was so hated, how did she keep getting elected?

Remember Dubya? Hated, right? Elected, right?

So that means someone obviously liked him. Remember Obama? Hated by tons of people as well? Elected again.

I am just trying to feel out whether this is a party thing that is being applied to the whole country or actually a whole country thing.

These days, you'd be hard pressed to find many people in the UK with good things to say about her. Obviously, she had enough supporters to get elected at the time, but politics is a more complicated situation than that - again, to draw an American comparison, there were people who really disliked Romney (or Obama, for that matter), yet voted for him.

Disdain for Thatcher has only grown since she came to power as the repercussions of her time in office have wrung out over time.

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