The "Carrot and Stick Approach" to Welfare Programs

ZaneRockfist wrote:

It is inevitable that welfare programs will be cut until they are no more. The weakest cannot fight back, so they will be targeted until they are snuffed out. And it will keep going up from there. America is done for.

The arc of history seems to be the opposite. First we got Social Security from FDR. Then LBJ signed Medicare and Medicaid into law. Bush expanded Medicare, and now we've got "Obamacare".

realityhack wrote:
nel e nel wrote:

The problem, unfortunately in America, is that race and class are so intertwined that it's nigh impossible to talk about one with out talking about the other.

This is worth repeating. Very well put.

You are clearly the only one who pays attention to my signature.

ChrisLTD wrote:

The arc of history seems to be the opposite. First we got Social Security from FDR. Then LBJ signed Medicare and Medicaid into law. Bush expanded Medicare, and now we've got "Obamacare".

True but many other programs have been gutted quite effectively. A couple of those you mentioned are keyed to the elderly vote.

Even if programs have not been gutted no real attempt has been made to keep up with demand.

Furthermore, looking at largely racist attacks on the poor many programs become unavailable to them. Housing assistance, educational assistance, food stamps, all gone for a felony conviction.

I don't think social programs will disappear, but taking them as a larger whole I don't think it has been a strait march forward either.

realityhack wrote:

Furthermore, looking at largely racist attacks on the poor many programs become unavailable to them. Housing assistance, educational assistance, food stamps, all gone for a felony conviction.

While I think that the current state of affairs regarding felons is a horrible situation which only makes things worse, I certainly wouldn't call it racist. In fact, calling it racist takes the focus off the real issue.

CannibalCrowley wrote:
realityhack wrote:

Furthermore, looking at largely racist attacks on the poor many programs become unavailable to them. Housing assistance, educational assistance, food stamps, all gone for a felony conviction.

While I think that the current state of affairs regarding felons is a horrible situation which only makes things worse, I certainly wouldn't call it racist. In fact, calling it racist takes the focus off the real issue.

It also ignores that when it comes to programs like welfare, etc, that white people are the majority of benefit receivers.

The felon situation isn't racist, but it does have its own issue. I actually volunteer time towards a group that helps offenders get back to work, and it's amazing to me how so many people dehumanize them. And then we wonder why we have repeat offenders.

CannibalCrowley wrote:

While I think that the current state of affairs regarding felons is a horrible situation which only makes things worse, I certainly wouldn't call it racist. In fact, calling it racist takes the focus off the real issue.

Cannibal I get what you are trying to say, but it pulls data out of context.
It is very well established that the systems pumping people into the criminal justice system, and the sentences revived are highly racially biased. The obvious result is that people with felony records are not racially representative of the population.
True the rules for felons do not vary based on the felons skin color but statistically whites engaging in the same behavior as blacks are less likely to end up with a felony record. It doesn't really matter for this discussion how each step functions to achieve that. Only that it is a statistical fact.

Many states still have not modified the federal guidelines on welfare so individuals with a drug felony are intelligible for life. That might have some impact on the racial makeup of receivers.

We have obviously drifted a bit from the so called carrot and stick approach, but maybe everyone just agreed that was a terrible plan?

bandit0013 wrote:

... And then we wonder why we have repeat offenders.

Well they could just vote for change... oh wait, actually they can't.

No wonder first world nations look at us as if we are some kind of throw back to the dark ages. We make it so easy.