Bioshock Infinite Catch-All

Duoae wrote:

Is it just me or does everyone else wish they'd change the title to Bioshock: Infinty or Infinite Bioshock. I'm not quite sure which grammatical rules they're breaking with the current title, but they's a'breakin' them!

My current plan is to continue believing it's French (Bioshock Infinité).

Screenshots: http://gameinformer.com/b/news/archi...

I think I like the less claustrophobic setting, another way to distinguish itself from all the previous *shock games, although hopefully it translates into interesting arenas for combat too.

Boy, they weren't kidding. The Alpha looks super goofy when you see him clearly.

Also check out that mural in the upper left of the second screenshot. 1912 is so delightfully racist.

Got my copy of the most recent issue of Game Informer, which features an article on Bioshock Infinite. Forgive me for not going into the background of the story. I'm sure all relevant info will find itself on the internet eventually. I'm pretty interested now, because the deeper I went into the article, and the more I learned about the setting of the game, the more I was convinced that Bioshock Infinite is going to be a rather thinly-veiled commentary on the ideological conflict between the modern American liberals and conservatives, and furthermore, a meditation on America's role and stance in the modern world. I might be over-thinking things, but considering that the original Bioshock had an ambitious philosophical theme, I don't think that hypothesis is too far-fetched. Please stay tuned and find out for yourself.

Personally I'm disappointed that Ken Levine has repeatedly stated that he intentionally has no commentary on the philosophical issues addressed in his games and is merely using them as tools for entertainment. In some ways it lets the audience come to their own conclusions, but it also seems kind of duplicitous to bring up these issues and not really address them. I don't believe an artist's efforts can be entirely without bias, and it's especially clear in Bioshock Infinite how American exceptionalism relates to this last decade of American history, but when asked about it Ken explicitly says that they're not trying to make that connection. It's maddening.

Personally I hope it's just marketing double talk that his PR advisers make him say in interviews and that secretly he knows that he's making the first big budget game that's politically relevant.

It makes sense that he doesn't want to get mired down in political discussion. I don't see how discussing his personal politics or beliefs could help him or the sales of the game. Plus he doesn't want to become The Politically Minded Game Designer and be stuck talking about politics/philosophy ad nauseum with gaming magazines/blogs that can and will only deal with those concepts in a simple and simplistic way.

EDIT: what annoys ME is the amount of coverage this game is getting when it's so far away from release. I'm trying to ignore it (I know: "you don't have to read it") but I can't help myself, at times.

Yeah, I see Ken's games more as thought experiments and explorations of ideas, rather than a guy grinding a specific philosophical axe. And I think it's better that way.

Has anyone seen any sign of a gameplay video, or did I just imagine that one was meant to be turning up at some point.

I'm interested to see what Ken does with this game. To me, it feels like another game that is going to be entirely focused on the freedom vs. control in games. The setting, technologies, philosophical themes all seem to scream out as set pieces that will be used to advance the point of freedom vs. control. That is why it both feels like a familiar game and why they chose to put the word "Bioshock" into the title.

Still, I look forward to seeing what kind of twists are put into to make it a different experience, while still being put into a similar setting.

Spoiler:

I'd be willing to wager that the girl being "rescued" somehow ends up as the mother of Andrew Ryan, who sees that the power of the individual (you saving her) is the greatest concept of freedom and, without constrictions, can be more exceptional than anything else.

Scratched wrote:

Has anyone seen any sign of a gameplay video, or did I just imagine that one was meant to be turning up at some point.

I believe the press was shown some gameplay footage at PAX, but no gameplay has been shown to the public yet if I understood correctly.

Dyni wrote:
Scratched wrote:

Has anyone seen any sign of a gameplay video, or did I just imagine that one was meant to be turning up at some point.

I believe the press was shown some gameplay footage at PAX, but no gameplay has been shown to the public yet if I understood correctly.

Actually I think any PAX attendee was able to see the gameplay footage. The video will "go live September 21 on Xbox LIVE and Xbox.com, and September 22 elsewhere."

Oh. Wow.

I guess it's similar to the first Bioshock videos that were there to show off the concept of how the game plays, rather than gameplay. It looks impressive, but I'm not sure how it conveys how the game will feel over the course of the whole game. I'll still buy it... in two years times

Scratched wrote:

I guess it's similar to the first Bioshock videos that were there to show off the concept of how the game plays, rather than gameplay. It looks impressive, but I'm not sure how it conveys how the game will feel over the course of the whole game. I'll still buy it... in two years times :(

It shows some pretty impressive world building and certainly sells the idea of the game, but I sincerely doubt that what we're seeing there is raw gameplay footage that hasn't been carefully massaged.

Irrational's problem has never been world building; their games usually break down when it comes to the actual gameplay itself. Until I see more of Bioshock Infinite in the wild, untrained hands of people who aren't part of the development team, I'll remain extremely skeptical.

Updated the OP with the 720p video.

I wish the final product could be as amazing as that, but in the end a human who's never experienced these scripted sequences before won't pull them off like a directed actor, and I'd bow to Irrational's feet if they could keep the overall direction like that for hours.

Now I really want another Bioshock 2 sale so I have a new experience again, including Minerva's Den.

Kind of makes me wish for a game engine where that stuff could be going on all the time without scripting. Having the building's buoyancy, balance and destruction all done real time. Impacts on structures from characters tearing chunks out of them, misguided incendiaries setting stuff on fire and burning a structure to the ground.

Probably the main thing that makes all those other visually impressive things happen (important for a video) is what the characters do, and giving them the range of behaviours so that they're fun and interesting to play against, without seeming like predictable automations is a tricky task. Having said that, I think most playtesting has found that players like predictable automations than unpredictable.

Scratched wrote:

Kind of makes me wish for a game engine where that stuff could be going on all the time without scripting. Having the building's buoyancy, balance and destruction all done real time. Impacts on structures from characters tearing chunks out of them, misguided incendiaries setting stuff on fire and burning a structure to the ground.

Probably the main thing that makes all those other visually impressive things happen (important for a video) is what the characters do, and giving them the range of behaviours so that they're fun and interesting to play against, without seeming like predictable automations is a tricky task. Having said that, I think most playtesting has found that players like predictable automations than unpredictable.

While unlikely, I'd love this -- a dynamic and interactive environment would be awesome. Some of my favourite moments in games are the unpredictable ones. Arma 2 is great for this -- an enemy jet suddenly deciding on a kamikaze action and taking out half your troops, for example.

The video was pretty sweet, but I'm a little tired always being led from from one cinematic set piece to the next without being allowed a little freedom of imagination and creativity.

Duoae wrote:

Is it just me or does everyone else wish they'd change the title to Bioshock: Infinty or Infinite Bioshock. I'm not quite sure which grammatical rules they're breaking with the current title, but they's a'breakin' them!

I have a theory about that...

Geez, that was some sweet footage. I can't decide if I want to go dark on this like I am with Portal 2. I don't know if I can resist watching videos like that.

Thirteenth wrote:

Got my copy of the most recent issue of Game Informer, which features an article on Bioshock Infinite. Forgive me for not going into the background of the story. I'm sure all relevant info will find itself on the internet eventually. I'm pretty interested now, because the deeper I went into the article, and the more I learned about the setting of the game, the more I was convinced that Bioshock Infinite is going to be a rather thinly-veiled commentary on the ideological conflict between the modern American liberals and conservatives, and furthermore, a meditation on America's role and stance in the modern world. I might be over-thinking things, but considering that the original Bioshock had an ambitious philosophical theme, I don't think that hypothesis is too far-fetched. Please stay tuned and find out for yourself.

You mean unlike how the first Bioshock was a thinly veiled commentary about American Conservatives and Liberals vis a vis capitalism and taxes?

Or how the second Bioshock was a thinly veiled commentary about American Conservatives and Liberals vis a vis religion?

The Bioshock series in general seems to be an elaborate hate letter to Ronald Reagan. Since most of the people on these forums (from what I've seen) probably don't have a problem with that, there's nothing to see here; move along. For those that do, we can just remember that the game comes out of 2K BOSTON, which hasn't been known for free-market, pro-Americanism since a Communist shot the only Kennedy who liked low taxes and strong national defense.

doubtingthomas396 wrote:
Thirteenth wrote:

Got my copy of the most recent issue of Game Informer, which features an article on Bioshock Infinite. Forgive me for not going into the background of the story. I'm sure all relevant info will find itself on the internet eventually. I'm pretty interested now, because the deeper I went into the article, and the more I learned about the setting of the game, the more I was convinced that Bioshock Infinite is going to be a rather thinly-veiled commentary on the ideological conflict between the modern American liberals and conservatives, and furthermore, a meditation on America's role and stance in the modern world. I might be over-thinking things, but considering that the original Bioshock had an ambitious philosophical theme, I don't think that hypothesis is too far-fetched. Please stay tuned and find out for yourself.

You mean unlike how the first Bioshock was a thinly veiled commentary about American Conservatives and Liberals vis a vis capitalism and taxes?

Or how the second Bioshock was a thinly veiled commentary about American Conservatives and Liberals vis a vis religion?

The Bioshock series in general seems to be an elaborate hate letter to Ronald Reagan. Since most of the people on these forums (from what I've seen) probably don't have a problem with that, there's nothing to see here; move along. For those that do, we can just remember that the game comes out of 2K BOSTON, which hasn't been known for free-market, pro-Americanism since a Communist shot the only Kennedy who liked low taxes and strong national defense.

Had a bad day? I hope this doesn't turn a gaming thread into another partisan debate.

cyrax wrote:

Updated the OP with the 720p video.

I wish the final product could be as amazing as that, but in the end a human who's never experienced these scripted sequences before won't pull them off like a directed actor, and I'd bow to Irrational's feet if they could keep the overall direction like that for hours.

Now I really want another Bioshock 2 sale so I have a new experience again, including Minerva's Den.

Holy frijole! This game is now officially on my radar.

doubtingthomas396 wrote:

The Bioshock series in general seems to be an elaborate hate letter to Ronald Reagan.

So? It's a nice counter-balance to all the hoo-rah! militarism that permeates every other shooter franchise (Call of Duty, Battlefield: Bad Company, and Medal of Honor being the big ones).

Even though the gameplay demo was heavily scripted it's still amazing to see the level of detail, unique environments, and what appears to be more open-worldness than what we saw previously. The "city-in-the-sky-concept" is so refreshing after spending the past two installments under the sea and a whole new cast of characters, weapons, and hopefully a worthwhile story makes this a day 1 for me.

doubtingthomas396 wrote:

You mean unlike how the first Bioshock was a thinly veiled commentary about American Conservatives and Liberals vis a vis capitalism and taxes?

I actually thought it was more a thinly veiled reference to FDR's speech on Second Bill of (Economic) Rights arguing how Fascism is the result of failed economies, and how "necessitous men are not free men." I thought it transcended the liberal/conservative dichotomy by making the central conflict one of populists vs. (selfish) individualists.

Or how the second Bioshock was a thinly veiled commentary about American Conservatives and Liberals vis a vis religion?

I found it to be a thinly veiled meditation on drugs like Prozac and the questions we must ask about the nature of humanity given our increasing ability to manipulate our psychology with technology, so that a Second Coming could be seen less as an event of divine intervention and more as a triumph of human inventiveness over its own original genetic sins. I thought it transcended the liberal/conservative dichotomy by making the 'bad guys' an alloy of religion and psychology, two concepts of the world normally seen to be at odds with each other.

The Bioshock series in general seems to be an elaborate hate letter to Ronald Reagan.

Whatever it is, it's pretty awesome. It's too bad 2K Marin didn't have enough time to really get the sequel to come together--in some ways, it had the even *more* intriguing concept.

Needless to say, I'm quite looking forward to what Levine and company have to offer, with what seems like all the time they need to put this all together. In fact, this sounds a little like the original idea for BioShock of a cult deprogrammer that has to rescue someone, so this idea of a 'rescue' has been kicking around in Ken's head for a while. I'm sure it'll be something just as outside the typical polar structures we think of issues in. In fact, I'd like to see 2K Marin get a Treyarch-like chance to redeem themselves with another sequel (assuming Black Ops turns out to be as good as it looks).

Anyone have any idea about the roses and Elizabeth being female? BioShock; InFinite is set in 1912, and that's the year of the Bread and Roses Strike.

Or am I just reading too much into a trailer?

ClockworkHouse wrote:
doubtingthomas396 wrote:

The Bioshock series in general seems to be an elaborate hate letter to Ronald Reagan.

So? It's a nice counter-balance to all the hoo-rah! militarism that permeates every other shooter franchise (Call of Duty, Battlefield: Bad Company, and Medal of Honor being the big ones).

Wait, you're looking at Call of Duty as "hoo-rah! militarism?" I haven't played any of the modern warfare games, but my understanding was that the US weren't exactly the good guys in either of those games.

The only reason the WW2 games have the Allied powers as unadulterated good guys is not the developers unmitigated love of America, it's just because the Nazis are easy villains and the Americans just happen to be fighting them. I can't really think of any "America F***-Yeah!" games out there, but I can think of a lot of explicitly or implicitly anti-American ones.

I could rattle off a list (I seem to recall the developers of Halo saying in an interview that the bad guys in that series were like America) but I don't want to derail the thread any further than I already have. Suffice it to say that the notion that game developers have been conscientously aligned with American Conservatives, and that Ken Levine is some kind of brave soul challenging them doesn't pass the laugh test.

Whatever. I'm kind of getting used to the fact that developers don't and will never agree with me on pretty much anything. If I boycotted every title with ideological baggage, I'd never be able to play anything.

juv3nal wrote:
Duoae wrote:

Is it just me or does everyone else wish they'd change the title to Bioshock: Infinty or Infinite Bioshock. I'm not quite sure which grammatical rules they're breaking with the current title, but they's a'breakin' them!

I have a theory about that...

Infinite Sky?

I agree with CheezePavillion on the Bioshock1&2 front. I didn't see the game as anti-american, rather message on the dangers of unmitigated selfish entrepreneurial exercise. Something i think we're seeing today with all the anti-consumerism that's spreading through corporate states.

No one's realised the reaaaally important part about the gameplay vid yet? The main character is voiced by Stephen Russell, as in, Garrett from the Thief series! Day one perch!