Bioshock Infinite Catch-All

mikeohara wrote:

I'm sure it's probably a crime to have the first Bioshock and have not gotten to Ryan.

After that point, eh, not so great.

trueheart78 wrote:

As a fellow criminal gamer that has the first but hasn't beaten it, if you've been spoiler'd, the drive to finish it goes out the window.

Yep. And people wonder why folks get so anal about spoilers. Someone out there just stole $50 from you.

Malor wrote:
trueheart78 wrote:

As a fellow criminal gamer that has the first but hasn't beaten it, if you've been spoiler'd, the drive to finish it goes out the window.

Yep. And people wonder why folks get so anal about spoilers. Someone out there just stole $50 from you.

If the only value a game, movie, book, or television show has lies in its ability to surprise you with a plot twist, it isn't actually very good.

Malor wrote:

I saw a neat article about six weeks ago that talked about how much better Bioshock could have been with some fairly minor tweaks to the plot. I just can't remember where I saw it.... if anyone knows what I'm talking about, a link would be great.

Malor is this it?
http://www.pentadact.com/index.php/2...

ClockworkHouse wrote:
Malor wrote:
trueheart78 wrote:

As a fellow criminal gamer that has the first but hasn't beaten it, if you've been spoiler'd, the drive to finish it goes out the window.

Yep. And people wonder why folks get so anal about spoilers. Someone out there just stole $50 from you.

If the only value a game, movie, book, or television show has lies in its ability to surprise you with a plot twist, it isn't actually very good.

For it's first playthrough, story is a huge factor for me, and having major story elements spoiled ruins the immersion and my attachment to said game. Both Bioshock and Final Fantasy X have been spoiled for me, and while I want to get around to Bioshock, it isn't urgent, but FFX? I'm sorry, I value my sanity a little more than the time required to slog through the rest of that game (if the battle system was better, maybe). Then there are games like the Metal Gear Solid series where, even though I know some of the major spoilers to the games I've not played, Kojima mixes up the series and mechanics enough to keep me interested.

Now, if someone had spoiled Red Dead Redemption for me, heads would roll!

dumb_kid wrote:
Malor wrote:

I saw a neat article about six weeks ago that talked about how much better Bioshock could have been with some fairly minor tweaks to the plot. I just can't remember where I saw it.... if anyone knows what I'm talking about, a link would be great.

Malor is this it?
http://www.pentadact.com/index.php/2...

That would have been a brilliant ending, actually.

I find the spoiler example of Bioshock funny. Within the timespan of the demo you have Ryan set up as your enemy and Atlas as your friend. Although there are deeper themes not touched on so early, I find it hard to believe most people couldn't extrapolate what's going to happen in the rest of the game, especially for Atlas given the System Shock2 heritage. I don't really see "what happens to characters" as the real Bioshock spoiler.

What really made me wide eyed when I first played it was

Spoiler:

Would you kindly - The subversion of how a game player accepts taking orders without question for narrative purposes. If you knew that at the start it wouldn't have had the impact

Pretty much anything else in Bioshock is generic video game.

It's not a spoiler unless it makes you whisper, "Oh, sh*t..."

ClockworkHouse wrote:
Malor wrote:
trueheart78 wrote:

As a fellow criminal gamer that has the first but hasn't beaten it, if you've been spoiler'd, the drive to finish it goes out the window.

Yep. And people wonder why folks get so anal about spoilers. Someone out there just stole $50 from you.

If the only value a game, movie, book, or television show has lies in its ability to surprise you with a plot twist, it isn't actually very good.

^ This. I played Bioshock for about 7 hours. I was interested in the atmosphere, but the mechanics of the game weren't that interesting to me. So when I heard the spoiler I was done with the game.

Yeah, it's been 3 years since the release of Bioshock, and the game is easy to find for $5-10. Bioshock has some fantastic twists, and spoilers suck, but come on. It's been 3 f*cking years.

I agree. It was spoiled for me, though, 3 years ago. I'm simply agreeing with the previous point that a game that is no longer interesting because the plot is spoiled, isn't a game worth playing.

DSGamer wrote:

I agree. It was spoiled for me, though, 3 years ago. I'm simply agreeing with the previous point that a game that is no longer interesting because the plot is spoiled, isn't a game worth playing.

Ah, yeah, that makes sense. I was mostly replying to Malor's hilarious assertion that a spoiler for a 3-year-old game is equivalent to stealing $50. I probably should have quoted it.

I suppose a related point would be how many games do you replay because they're fun playing, even though you know what happens. For what it's worth I've played Bioshock 1 at least 3 or 4 times, and Bioshock 2 twice, so they're not bad by any measure.

Scratched wrote:

I suppose a related point would be how many games do you replay because they're fun playing, even though you know what happens. For what it's worth I've played Bioshock 1 at least 3 or 4 times, and Bioshock 2 twice, so they're not bad by any measure.

Castlevania games I can replay because of the mechanics. I've replayed FFTA and all the NES and SNES Mario and Zelda games. I'm finding, strangely, that there aren't many games from this gen or last gen that I want to replay much.

Scratched wrote:

I suppose a related point would be how many games do you replay because they're fun playing, even though you know what happens. For what it's worth I've played Bioshock 1 at least 3 or 4 times, and Bioshock 2 twice, so they're not bad by any measure.

I played through Bioshock 1 a couple of times too, and I think the game's combat sandbox has a lot of meat on its bones. My problem this generation is that I have much less time than I did in the past, more disposable income and more access to games to clog up my backlog, so I seldom get a chance to replay anything. Except Far Cry 2, I make time for that.

DSGamer wrote:

I agree. It was spoiled for me, though, 3 years ago. I'm simply agreeing with the previous point that a game that is no longer interesting because the plot is spoiled, isn't a game worth playing.

I think Clockwork's point is that if the only value derived from a story is the twist, then it's not a worthwhile story. Bioshock has a twist, but it's not the point of the story, it's in service of a larger message. Having that "spoiled" doesn't devalue the themes of the story. It's too bad that having been spoiled about the twist, you felt you were done with the game, as I thought the atmosphere and narrative were strong enough to be worth exploring despite knowing what was coming.

I came to Bioshock late, so already knew the twist—in fact, knowing it made me want to play it all the more, as a I wanted to see how the story got the point. My wife watched me play the whole, and guessed the twist herself within about an hour of starting. It didn't make the story any less interesting for us.

Now everything after the twist: yeah, pretty lacklustre, so don't beat yourself up if you haven't seen the credits roll.

That's the thing with Bioshock, and System Shock before it, there's plenty of other little things to explore and discover besides just the broad stroke of the main story. It's lots of little threads that weave into a larger fabric of Rapture, and Bioshock 2 makes expands that fabric. The main plot characters are only a handful compared to the whole picture. I guess my wish would be that between Bioshock 1 and 2 they had a better loom to weave it all together with.

Has anyone else had a dream they were in Rapture after playing these games?

Podunk wrote:

... Except Far Cry 2, I make time for that. :)

I reserve time for it, the S.T.A.L.K.E.R. games, or most recently, the 2033 series. Those games are just so damn interesting to me.

I liked Bioshock. When I first saw previews for it, I imagined a game like Far Cry 2 underwater where splicers were very chance procedural encounters and big daddies explored more than just a handful of rooms. Bioshock was a good story set in an incredibly well-realized world, but to me, it was not much else.

Big Daddy's replacement is called "Handyman."

MeatMan wrote:

Big Daddy's replacement is called "Handyman."

Or "Alpha". They go into more details in the Irrational Games podcast.

MrDeVil909 wrote:
bnpederson wrote:

I think it's official: Steam Punk is the new Zombies.

Accurate, except Steam Punk is cool.

You can't blame zombies for just following the crowd.

Nevin73 wrote:

I'm really interested to see what weapons will be available. Sure, you'll get some pistols and rifles, but the cooler stuff wasn't invented until WW1.

I disagree with your flatly stated opinion!

7inchsplit wrote:
WipEout wrote:
wordsmythe wrote:

I hope there's a robot Teddy Roosevelt.

No, that's the game I'm designing.

You leave that game mechanic alone, Levine!

Yes, let's try and stick to a robot William Jennings Bryan, please. That cross of gold melee attack is brutal.

You just wait for zombie Eugene Debs to kick your ass with his horde of disenfranchised workers.

Dimmerswitch wrote:
Duoae wrote:
casual_alcoholic wrote:

I haven't been following this thread very closely, but if no one has said it yet, I'm going to.

Spoiler:

We all know that at the end of this game Columbia is going to crash into the ocean right? That's going to be the big twist, "They didn't build Rapture at the bottom of the ocean. It landed there!" Just like everyone knows that thing is going to die or almost die in The Last Guardian.

I didn't even think of that but it makes a lot of sense! :D

I'm surprised (and perhaps waving a "get off my lawn" flag), but nobody's mentioned

Ties the super-patriot theme together nicely with casual alcoholic's speculation - plus it's the right timeframe.

First thing that popped into my head when I saw the name.

Here it is, for those who haven't heard it:

Lyrics:
O Columbia! the gem of the ocean,
The home of the brave and the free,
The shrine of each patriot's devotion,
A world offers homage to thee;
Thy mandates make heroes assemble,
When Liberty's form stands in view;
Thy banners make tyranny tremble,
When borne by the red, white, and blue,
When borne by the red, white, and blue,
When borne by the red, white, and blue,
Thy banners make tyranny tremble,
When borne by the red, white and blue.

When war wing'd its wide desolation,
And threaten'd the land to deform,
The ark then of freedom's foundation,
Columbia rode safe thro' the storm;
With her garlands of vict'ry around her,
When so proudly she bore her brave crew;
With her flag proudly floating before her,
The boast of the red, white and blue,
The boast of the red, white and blue,
The boast of the red, white, and blue,
With her flag proudly floating before her,
The boast of the red, white and blue.

The Union, the Union forever,
Our glorious nation's sweet hymn,
May the wreaths it has won never wither,
Nor the stars of its glory grow dim,
May the service united ne'er sever,
But they to their colors prove true.
The Army and Navy forever,
Three cheers for the red, white, and blue,
Three cheers for the red, white, and blue,
Three cheers for the red, white, and blue,
The Army and Navy for ever,
Three cheers for the red, white and blue.

(There's a variant third verse that mentions "Columbia's true sons," for that extra dose of exclusionism.)

MeatMan wrote:

Big Daddy's replacement is called "Handyman."

Can't wait to see the Fire Marshall Bill and Homey the Clown splicers.

Also, is the thread title going to be corrected, or is it that way for the lulz?

har har har! If this has already been posted then, -har, -har -har.

Trailer commentary:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSCswCg-9gk&feature=popular

Puce Moose wrote:

har har har! If this has already been posted then, -har, -har -har.

Trailer commentary:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSCswCg-9gk&feature=popular

[size=6] Cue epic music! [/size]

Haha, that was brilliant

Is it just me or does everyone else wish they'd change the title to Bioshock: Infinty or Infinite Bioshock. I'm not quite sure which grammatical rules they're breaking with the current title, but they's a'breakin' them!

*Wordsmythe to the emergency room, please, that's Wordsmythe to the emergency room; we have a grammatical situation ongoing.*

BioShock Infinite gameplay video to debut at PAX

But it won't be released for realz until later this month. So, we'll all have to rely on a phone's cam to view it in grand 800x600! The grainy video is really just an in game effect. We'll see if they're also crazy enough to add a B&W/Silent option as well.

I feel like I've been getting mentioned on a lot on podcasts lately, but they never drop my name. No casual_alcoholic love. Certis dropped my prediction on the podcast, but I'm just "someone from the forums". Just remember guys, in two years when this game comes out and Columbia crashes into the ocean, I'm making that quote my sig.

It'll be interesting to see some gameplay footage of this, but more BioShock doesn't have much appeal for me at the moment. I got the first one a while after it came out and enjoyed it (didn't beat the boss before my hard drive crashed). The second one I bought at release and I regretted it almost immediately -- felt like a warmed over BioShock 1 and I finished it in a couple days. So, while this game looks like something a little more interesting than 2 (it would have to be), it's still BioShock and that world hasn't really grabbed me the way other game worlds have.

I think what I most want to know is how the brain of Shawn Elliott has affected this game. On the Brodeo he had some great insights and ideas on how to improve games (his pre-release ideas for Spore, for example).