Bioshock Infinite Spoiler Thread

DanB wrote:

As you move faster, your mass increases and further acceleration requires more force than previously required per unit acceleration: This is true.

Lets say we have some 1g object moving are some significant portion of the speed of light say 0.5c. We apply some v.large amount of additional accelerating force to take it to 0.51c if we now measure the mass of the object it will be say 1.01g. It's still moving at it's new speed, it's new mass is not causing it to "slow down". However if we want to accelerate from 0.51c to 0.52c then we will have to apply more force than the previous time because it is now more massive. There is no slowing down happening in this system as a result of the changing mass of the object, in fact because of momentum the object will continue propagating along it's world line at it's new speed as long as no braking forces are applied.

Additionally we can't get this object to actually reach c because as the speed of the object approaches c it's mass will become being infinite which in turn tells us that for any object with mass to reach c you will need an infinite amount of energy. Which is one of the many reasons why object with mass can't propagate at c.

Newton's first law, yo. (And the second, as amended by Einstein.)

dRailer wrote:

Just wanted to add that I finally did get to listen to the BI spoiler section of GWJ podcast, and Jeff Cannata's opinions pretty much exactly reflected my own; so much so that I didn't need to write anything previous to this and probably could have simply written "What Jeff said." Still haven't listened to the Levine interview. Soon.

I was very down about the ending and several other people have sold me into believing that maybe it wasn't quite so dark as I thought. Or was it? Or wasn't it? That's, perhaps, the best time/space issue of all... now that this has all been explained to me, or I figured it out... am I to go back in time and enjoy the game more? Oh, play it again? *slow nod* Yeah, that'd probably be easier, good point.

I couldn't relate to Cannata's opinion of the game really, I got something very very different. Though I haven't found many who read the ending as I did, but mine was very emotional, slightly disturbing and you could say somewhat dark but ultimately uplifting and heart warming. I think about it quite fondly tbh. I started another play through, but stopped not long after the raffle, it didn't feel right. I know who my Booker and my Anna are and I don't want to tarnish that.

troubleshot wrote:

I couldn't relate to Cannata's opinion of the game really, I got something very very different. Though I haven't found many who read the ending as I did, but mine was very emotional, slightly disturbing and you could say somewhat dark but ultimately uplifting and heart warming. I think about it quite fondly tbh. I started another play through, but stopped not long after the raffle, it didn't feel right. I know who my Booker and my Anna are and I don't want to tarnish that.

I can totally respect that. In fact, I haven't mustered the will to go back and play it again, at least not yet.

Finished the game yesterday, and just got caught up on the thread. I'll probably have more articulate thoughts in the next week or so, but is it certain that Booker dies? Maybe he finally achieves Moksha with Elizabeth's assistance, and is freed from the cycle. The only other religious figure that appears in the game, aside from Comstock's idols, is Chen Lin's Buddha.

Just finished this. Personally I think it is impossible to draw any concrete conclusions from the game. I mean there is support for created dimensions by wishing, created dimensions through choice, dimensions that are just there, merged dimensions and time travel. Then it is possible all of those things could be true in the game. However, it does make for a interesting journey.

The way things went down I think a number of universes broke the cycle but a number of universes are still stuck in the cycle or created some new cycles. In the end of the day though my Dewitt will never become a evil prophet in a floating city.

Ok, struck by a bout of insomnia last night, so this is on limited sleep, but time to get a couple more thoughts down:

The game becomes about Elizabeth's agency roughly when the first major tear is opened during the Chen Lin quests. The latter half of the game is about Elizabeth's path to become a savior figure; either a Buddha or a Christ, depending on whether Booker lives or dies during the baptism.

I'm in the *loved it unconditionally* camp. I'm usually terribad at shooters, and was able to make my way through this one while actually feeling like I had some mastery in places.

Tanglebones wrote:

I'm usually terribad at shooters, and was able to make my way through this one while actually feeling like I had some mastery in places.

I may have said this before, I'm not sure -- I'm going to repeat it in case I did not.

I think part of the reason for the above quote may be that the AI seemed phoned in; at least in parts. On HARD, this was my experience:

• Enemy AI that did nothing.
• Enemy AI that snuck up behind me and did nothing, seemingly waiting their turn like in old kung fu movies.
• Enemy AI that vibrated, unable to choose between two paths, or hung up on geometry.
• Enemy AI that walked from point A to point B to point A to point B (and not just "kinda" this is "leave your crosshairs where the head was a second ago and wait 15 seconds for a perfect headshot" style, and during combat, not just in "patrolling" mode.)
• Enemy AI that had no idea how self-opening doors work.
• Enemy AI that enjoyed a circular ride on rails rather than fighting.
• OMG big bad guy: circle-strafe around column for the unfortunate win.
• Final battle: "to hell with the guy shooting me in the back, I'm going to blow up this blue thing."

On the plus side:
• Yup, they used the rails, which was nice.
• Yup they sometimes ran up to me, which was also nice, but... like I said, sometimes they did nothing.
• Shotgun guys at the end started getting to be an interesting fight.

I'd love to see the kind of stuff they programmed into Elizabeth into the fighting style of the enemy AI.

dRailer wrote:

I'd love to see the kind of stuff they programmed into Elizabeth into the fighting style of the enemy AI.

Hiding until it's all over?

I want my, I want my, I want my DLC.

IMAGE(http://media-cache-ak1.pinimg.com/550x/15/52/99/155299537952be8e3c730ee0c77bca9c.jpg)

Scratched wrote:
dRailer wrote:

I'd love to see the kind of stuff they programmed into Elizabeth into the fighting style of the enemy AI.

Hiding until it's all over?

lol! While that's funny, honestly that would be refreshing, maybe once in a game?

Scratched wrote:
dRailer wrote:

I'd love to see the kind of stuff they programmed into Elizabeth into the fighting style of the enemy AI.

Hiding until it's all over?

Yeah, I dunno, enemies that throw you health and ammo seem maybe a bit counterproductive.

Malor wrote:
Scratched wrote:
dRailer wrote:

I'd love to see the kind of stuff they programmed into Elizabeth into the fighting style of the enemy AI.

Hiding until it's all over?

Yeah, I dunno, enemies that throw you health and ammo seem maybe a bit counterproductive.

Maybe they'd constantly tell each other to pick stuff up off the ground. Or perhaps they would toss coins at each other, so they could finally afford to buy vigors out of the vending machines.

gore wrote:
Malor wrote:
Scratched wrote:
dRailer wrote:

I'd love to see the kind of stuff they programmed into Elizabeth into the fighting style of the enemy AI.

Hiding until it's all over?

Yeah, I dunno, enemies that throw you health and ammo seem maybe a bit counterproductive.

Maybe they'd constantly tell each other to pick stuff up off the ground. Or perhaps they would toss coins at each other, so they could finally afford to buy vigors out of the vending machines.

Now I'm imagining a game where the player is conditioned to accept those shouts and presents from Elizabeth almost without thinkingbut then female enemies start to mimic her voice, saying stuff like, "Hey, catch!" When throwing you cooked grenades and poison flasks. Lol!

Duoae wrote:
gore wrote:
Malor wrote:
Scratched wrote:
dRailer wrote:

I'd love to see the kind of stuff they programmed into Elizabeth into the fighting style of the enemy AI.

Hiding until it's all over?

Yeah, I dunno, enemies that throw you health and ammo seem maybe a bit counterproductive.

Maybe they'd constantly tell each other to pick stuff up off the ground. Or perhaps they would toss coins at each other, so they could finally afford to buy vigors out of the vending machines.

Now I'm imagining a game where the player is conditioned to accept those shouts and presents from Elizabeth almost without thinkingbut then female enemies start to mimic her voice, saying stuff like, "Hey, catch!" When throwing you cooked grenades and poison flasks. Lol!

I love all these ideas. Remember in Bioshock 1 how the enemy would use the health stations but you could rig them to blow up? That was cool! I'd love to see them buy vigors! If you let them live that long, that's the price you pay! These vigors are all over the place and yet the only person that seems to use them is you, and perhaps a few specialized enemies. And how cool would it be to have one of them say "I'm low" and you catch a glimpse of one of the others throwing ammo to that person? And health! Yes! Why not? I can't tell if you guys are saying this stuff with an eyeroll or if you really mean it, but honestly these are all exactly the kinds of things I'd love to see. Would be great after a battle to at least be able to think "well played" once in awhile.

I just finished the game. In terms of gameplay, I'm not a huge FPS fan, and for whatever reason the cerebral elements of putting the story together really didn't draw me the way they usually do. So even though I'm fine, not thrilled, with the game overall, I have to say that emotionally it ended up in a very affecting place for me.

In part I think that Booker and Elizabeth's yearning for closure so that they could be together made me think about my own children. I usually nurse my six month old to sleep as I play, so the emotional effect of the story hit pretty hard. And I'm sure that someone's already mentioned it, but I couldn't help but notice that the game ended (that is, if you finished the credits) at the very same spot as the movie Inception.

Two songs I've always loved, "Will the Circle Be Unbroken" and "God Only Knows," really seemed even more fitting as I thought about the contrast between Christian redemption and what Booker and Elizabeth wished to happen.

concentric wrote:

Two songs I've always loved, "Will the Circle Be Unbroken" and "God Only Knows," really seemed even more fitting as I thought about the contrast between Christian redemption and what Booker and Elizabeth wished to happen.

In hindsight, I feel like the "God Only Knows" cover is possibly my favorite moment from the game; it was wonderfully executed, and it occurred early in the story, vaguely hinting at all sorts of potential.

I sure hated this game, that is until I didn't, that is when I finally knew why I should care. Shooting bullets at ghosts would usually be where I jump ship in a game, but for some reason this time it was about when I hopped on. Navigating (unknowingly) a world forged from doubling down on the source of one's own shame! Wild. And time stuffs.

I adore how the source of Elizabeth's powers are linked to that central, emotional moment of Dewitt losing his daughter through the tear, which retroactively infused her reaching out to you while in the Songbird's grasp with real poignancy. I'm reminded of ventures like LOST which nail the personal beats early on, but can't link character and plot mechanics in the final reel. This lacked any sense of character for me early on, but that moment (and later revelations) were like a prism that finally revealed all the game's colors, and had me almost wishing I'd been able to play it backwards, somehow. I guess that's what second playthroughs are for, and in 1999 Mode thus far I'm even more inclined to forgive all the edible pineapple in the trash because holy f*ck I need that pineapple.

I'm docking half a star for the recording studio sequence over the credits in which Troy Baker reveals himself to be one of those guys that wears a fashion scarf indoors. It better have been cold in there, that's all I'm saying.

Slumberland wrote:

I'm docking half a star for the recording studio sequence over the credits in which Troy Baker reveals himself to be one of those guys that wears a fashion scarf indoors. It better have been cold in there, that's all I'm saying.

I think that's fair.

What happened to the Levine.interview? Did I miss it, or still unreleased?

edit: NM. I saw there were technical issues.

Since any BI discussion w Levine is forthcoming, perhaps a tiny bit of critical questioning can emerge? The game was an amazing piece of work, but I found it strongly undermined by its FPS constraints. I know I'm not alone in hoping Irrational can move the narrative form in games forward. Does being 2k owned = hew to proven formula or is risk still possible?

mono wrote:

The game was an amazing piece of work, but I found it strongly undermined by its FPS constraints. I know I'm not alone in hoping Irrational can move the narrative form in games forward. Does being 2k owned = hew to proven formula or is risk still possible?

I think you can draw a few conclusions, maybe not significant ones, from how Levine answered questions regarding the "man with gun" front cover (rather than anything involving Elizabeth), where he stated that if it's what he needed to do to sell the game, then he would do it. I feel it's a bit like some movie directors who go into deals to make one movie 'for the studio' and one for themselves, they balance what they have to do for commercial reasons with their riskier weird thing. So on one hand you've got what I'd say is a bog standard shooter, on the other the weird story.

As far as moving anything forward, that only works for me if other developers pick up what he's laying down, and I don't really think they will. I can't really say "the standard of game writing has improved because of X" where X is Bioshock, so I don't see why it's going to happen for Infinite.

heavyfeul wrote:

I want my DLC! Summer is coming, I already spent the money, where are the goods? There still is no announcement or preview or anything. I am starting to think pre-ordering DLC is a bad idea.

The DLC pre-sale was pretty much "We'll take your money now for 3 things we'll give you later, and we're not going to tell you what those things are or when". It just seemed very much like a "buyer beware" situation.

I want my DLC! Summer is coming, I already spent the money, where are the goods? There still is no announcement or preview or anything. I am starting to think pre-ordering DLC is a bad idea.

Ken Levine thanks us for our patience: http://m.computerandvideogames.com/4...

I do not have patience. Hulk want now!

IMAGE(http://deltorofilms.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/hulk.jpg)

As far as publishers go, it seems like 2K is one of the better AAA outfits in terms of creative freedom. Yes, if you plan to spend a bazillion dollars on a video game you'll need to make the case for return on investment. But I mean, Abraham Lincoln with devil horns.

The real advances in the form are coming from indies, and that is the logical place to look for experimental stuff. Irrational is more like the Radiohead to indie development's krautrock; they borrow proven ideas from the fringes of the medium and demonstrate brilliance in relating those ideas to a wide audience.

I like to think of Ken Levine as the David Bowie of the AAA world.

IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/Z2bioYt.jpg)

Just finished the game and I'm making my way through the thread, slowly. All in all, I loved the world that was built. I loved exploring it, finding little unexpected nuggets like the guitar scene.

I also totally, hopelessly fell in love with Elizabeth (Don't tell my wife). Her journey from a somewhat - and understandably - naive young girl to the woman she turns out to be before her 'ascension' is impressive and touching. The moment where she kills Fitzroy was definitely one of many standout moments in the game, and I had quite a strong reaction to it.

The place where I really lost my sh*t, though, was near the end where he struggles to get back his daughter Anna. I have a sixteen month old daughter, and my reaction to that was the most powerful of any moment I've had in gaming. It's rare that a game leaves me emotionally drained, but this did it.

All in all, the best game I've played in a very long time, and a strong contender for number 1, though I will have to give it a little more time before deciding that.

Just wrapped up on Monday night, and have been reading through this thread - skipped once I got to page 15.

I loved it. I have some things I wish it had done differently (combat, Founder/Vox/Fitzroy arc, internal consistency), but it was still an amazing game when you look at the rest of the FPS field.

mono wrote:

What happened to the Levine.interview? Did I miss it, or still unreleased?

edit: NM. I saw there were technical issues.

What, what, what? Where was this? Are they still working on it or does this mean its a write off? Been looking forward to it for weeks.

troubleshot wrote:
mono wrote:

What happened to the Levine.interview? Did I miss it, or still unreleased?

edit: NM. I saw there were technical issues.

What, what, what? Where was this? Are they still working on it or does this mean its a write off? Been looking forward to it for weeks.

The audio they recorded wound up being unusable, but the plan is to have Levine on as a guest for a full show "soon".

Just finished--was actually going to skip the game until I read the 'quick and dirty' review on this site, so I'm a bit late to the party, I guess, but I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere outside of a brief reference in one comment in this thread:

Scratched wrote:

I've seen it said Elizabeth is the primary protagonist in the game and not Booker, it diminishes the player's role and pretty much says "try to keep up", which I guess is one way to do it, but doesn't seem to be for everyone.

I'm wondering where you saw that, because that's the impression I got. Which maybe fixes a lot of the problems people had with redemption and choice? If the twist in the first Bioshock was WYK, maybe the twist here is that you're not the main character. You thought you were the main character because you shot lots of guns, but it's Elizabeth that has the character arc while you just keep slaughtering people like you always have. 1984 Elizabeth saves your Elizabeth with that note, right? After you do your usual killing, she has the big moment with Lady Comstock while you just find a nice, cinematic angle to watch it all from, as far as I remember. When it comes to the main characters, Daisy kills Fink, then Elizabeth kills Daisy. Elizabeth keeps telling you she is the one who needs to end things with Comstock, but you jump in. You spend the whole game figuring you're going to have to fight Songbird, probably as a final boss, but she drowns Songbird. Right before she also drowns the secret final boss--you.