Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Catch-all

MyBrainHz wrote:

Here's a Warlock RNG deck I made, which is all about Renounce Darkness and Yogg. There are no words for how ridiculous this is.

This is the most fun I've had playing a deck since beta. Let me know if any of y'all try it out.

Looks like fun. I'm very tempted to craft a second Renounce Darkness so I can try something like this. I already love trying to make Yogg and Elise do silly things.

athros wrote:

I really hate Paladins. Really hate. How many frickin heals, life total resets, board clears and other stall tactics do they get? I took my last match down to single digits 4 times. Yogg-Saron into 4 secrets and a board clear caused him to concede, but why the hell did it take almost 30 minutes? 2 full forbidden healings, 4 minions that restored 6+ health, Ragnaros the Lightlord.

Really hate Paladins.

I'm the opposite. Paladin control is my catharsis deck that I turn to after my slow-developing and silly Yogg/Elise/N'Zoth creations lose to aggro too many times.

ThingumBob wrote:
MyBrainHz wrote:

Here's a Warlock RNG deck I made, which is all about Renounce Darkness and Yogg. There are no words for how ridiculous this is.

This is the most fun I've had playing a deck since beta. Let me know if any of y'all try it out.

Looks like fun. I'm very tempted to craft a second Renounce Darkness so I can try something like this. I already love trying to make Yogg and Elise do silly things.

PS. Love that Felguard / Brann synergy!

athros wrote:

I really hate Paladins. Really hate. How many frickin heals, life total resets, board clears and other stall tactics do they get? I took my last match down to single digits 4 times. Yogg-Saron into 4 secrets and a board clear caused him to concede, but why the hell did it take almost 30 minutes? 2 full forbidden healings, 4 minions that restored 6+ health, Ragnaros the Lightlord.

Really hate Paladins.

I'm the opposite. Paladin control is my catharsis deck that I turn to after my slow-developing and silly Yogg/Elise/N'Zoth creations lose to aggro too many times.

So I had a pile of dust sitting around and got curious, and built that Trump C'Thun Druid deck (the one with those crazy legendaries), and geebus it's like I've enabled a hidden "easy mode" option.

Either I'm a better player than I think I am and have been hampered because my self-created decks are even sh*ttier than I thought, or this deck is at least moderately overpowered.

Oh well, can't beat 'em, join 'em.

[edit]Oh, and what's really shocking to me is that I haven't even dropped C'Thun or the Twin Emperor yet in any of the games I've played with it.

Farscry wrote:

Either I'm a better player than I think I am and have been hampered because my self-created decks are even sh*ttier than I thought, or this deck is at least moderately overpowered.

Using same deck and I've been wrestling with that question too. I think I'm playing well but maybe when I leave my comfort zone and play a different deck I'll learn differently.

Farscry wrote:

Either I'm a better player than I think I am and have been hampered because my self-created decks are even sh*ttier than I thought, or this deck is at least moderately overpowered.

There is a point of pride (and some fun to be had) in using your own deck, but to assume that your own creation is on the same level as those that are built by people who essentially play the game full time for a living is a little hopeful.

In this case maybe a bit of all that you mentioned. Also... the game can be streaky and has wild swings with small sample sizes. I remember cruising on the ladder with the Totem Shaman deck when TGT came out for about 1.5 days... and then it's like the game remembered that Shaman still sucked and I tanked even below where I started to climb.

If C'Thun Druid is a Tier 1 meta deck when the meta settles, I'll eat my shoes. It's not that good, guys. It's just really straightforward, so you don't need to "master" it.

I've played a lot in the last week. The Tier 1 decks are: Control Paladin (N'Zoth), Warlock Zoo, Midrange/Aggro Shaman, and Miracle Rogue.

Last week I was lukewarm on Shaman. I put a lot of time into crafting/testing (Shaman is one of the only heroes I don't have golden yet) and it's straight bonkers with the right list. If any deck becomes meta-defining (like Beta Miracle, Undertaker, Patron, Secret Paladin were), it's gonna some variant of that midrangey Shaman deck.

C'Thun decks will be viable, but not meta-defining and certainly not OP. If any control deck becomes OP, it'll be some N'Zoth variant.

_Free_ wrote:

If C'Thun Druid is a Tier 1 meta deck when the meta settles, I'll eat my shoes. It's not that good, guys. It's just really straightforward, so you don't need to "master" it.

The power level isn't the same, but it seems to me that even more so than Secret Pally, this is a really fundamental deck where you just play your dudes on curve. This is actually a boon to players who might be prone to "Fancy Play Syndrome".

_Free_ wrote:

Last week I was lukewarm on Shaman. I put a lot of time into crafting/testing (Shaman is one of the only heroes I don't have golden yet) and it's straight bonkers with the right list. If any deck becomes meta-defining (like Beta Miracle, Undertaker, Patron, Secret Paladin were), it's gonna some variant of that midrangey Shaman deck.

Curious about your thoughts on Shaman. I'm currently grinding out the wins playing aggro shaman in Wild (only about 40 wins away from golden shaman). I'm climbing well enough with about a 62-64% win rate, but when I looked at the breakdown of my match statistics, I noticed something rather shocking. Seems I'm winning about 76% of my games without the coin and only about 50% with. Clearly I'm doing something really wrong. FWIW the meta so far in Wild is about 60% Mage (Freeze and Tempo) and Pally (Secrets).

For what it's worth, I really value your input, _Free_. I just get ranty sometimes.

_Free_ wrote:

It's just really straightforward, so you don't need to "master" it.

Sheesh, way to make me feel good...

MyBrainHz wrote:

Here's a Warlock RNG deck I made, which is all about Renounce Darkness and Yogg. There are no words for how ridiculous this is.

This is the most fun I've had playing a deck since beta. Let me know if any of y'all try it out.

I made it and it's really fun!

There must be some way to make a Reno version....

Wait, did they make any changes to Enrage while I was away? I've created a really annoying Warrior Enrage Deck with Grim Patrons, but it seems to me that Enrage has been altered.

No, enrage is as it's been for a bit. If the creature's taken damage (i.e. their health is red) then the enrage effect happens. If they're healed to full or set to 1 health by a Paladin then they aren't enraged.

bnpederson wrote:

No, enrage is as it's been for a bit. If the creature's taken damage (i.e. their health is red) then the enrage effect happens. If they're healed to full or set to 1 health by a Paladin then they aren't enraged.

I haven't been playing for months, so I may have missed that change. I just noticed that if the Enraged minion is healed, the enraged effect--usually increased attack--goes away. But the building of the Enraged effect occurs, though, yes? You can injure a minion multiple times to increase the effect?

Natus wrote:

But the building of the Enraged effect occurs, though, yes? You can injure a minion multiple times to increase the effect?

Oh, no, I've never seen that since I've been playing (around the open beta). Enrage is a binary effect, either on (+damage or whatever) or off. There are some minions that gain from multiple hits, specifically Gurubashi Berserker, Frothing Berserker (for himself and other minions) and Gahz'rilla, but those aren't enrage effects, they're specifically called out as whenever X happens.

Farscry wrote:

For what it's worth, I really value your input, _Free_. I just get ranty sometimes. :D

I get ranty most times and I've been wrong more than a few times on this board.

Tyops wrote:

The power level isn't the same, but it seems to me that even more so than Secret Pally, this is a really fundamental deck where you just play your dudes on curve. This is actually a boon to players who might be prone to "Fancy Play Syndrome".

Agree. I think it's easier than Secret Pally. Secret Pally at least had some hands that required a brain to function. Namely, a hand full of secrets. When to play which one and how to get your opponent to sequence their turn incorrectly is definitely a skill.

C'Thun Druid is just curve drop after curve drop. Only skill is managing curve with WG and Innervate. And that's not a tough skill and it's something that everyone who played a little Druid before WotOG would know already.

Tyops wrote:

Curious about your thoughts on Shaman. I'm currently grinding out the wins playing aggro shaman in Wild (only about 40 wins away from golden shaman). I'm climbing well enough with about a 62-64% win rate, but when I looked at the breakdown of my match statistics, I noticed something rather shocking. Seems I'm winning about 76% of my games without the coin and only about 50% with. Clearly I'm doing something really wrong. FWIW the meta so far in Wild is about 60% Mage (Freeze and Tempo) and Pally (Secrets).

I haven't played a single Wild game, so hard to give too much advice on the ladder. I think Aggro and Midrange Shaman are both Tier 1 decks. FYI, this is my Midrange deck I've been tweaking. Doomhammer might be better than Al'Akhir, haven't decided yet.

Anyway, Coin management is a skill that is impacted heavily by Overload. Are you running a lot of Overload cards? I also think that saving Tunnel Trogg with the Coin is usually a good play. When you have Trogg on T1 and then Totem Golem on T2 without the Coin, the game just wins itself. However, dropping a naked Trogg on T1 with Coin means your opponent has mana for FWA or Frostbolt or a 3/2 minion. So you either lose him immediately or put yourself in a large hole by using your Coin on a Overload card to boost him.

With Coin, I like to wait until I can drop Trogg+something (preferably Feral Spirit) in the same turn. Forces your opponent into awkward turns where they have to use 2 mana removal on their T3.

Watching gifv's of players trying to showboat with Old Gods and getting wrecked for it is hilarious. Mage playing a hunter. Hunter had 1 health left to the mage's 20 with 7 armor from whatever that secret is, but the mage was down to their last two cards.

Mage dropped Yogg instead of just doing a hero power for the win because why not strut? Oh wait, Yogg pulls cards from your deck, even if they're not actually your cards. Mage died to fatigue damage from running out of cards and the hunter wins with 1 health because the Mage had to show off just how screwed he thought the hunter was as Yogg just kept pulling secret spell cards.

_Free_ wrote:

With Coin, I like to wait until I can drop Trogg+something (preferably Feral Spirit) in the same turn. Forces your opponent into awkward turns where they have to use 2 mana removal on their T3.

Yeah I'll have to look back at my games... I think I just have a tendency to keep greedier hands when I have coin and I get punished for it.

I haven't played a single Wild game, so hard to give too much advice on the ladder. I think Aggro and Midrange Shaman are both Tier 1 decks. FYI, this is my Midrange deck I've been tweaking. Doomhammer might be better than Al'Akhir, haven't decided yet.

Not surprised to see Master of Evolution isnt making the cut for you. I was playing it for a while before the new season started and it was pretty underwhelming. Also there has to be something better to run than Azure drake, you have only one spell (the storms) that benefit from the spell power... and a 4/4 for 5 that cycles isnt really mindblowing. Seriously thinking about C'Tun's Chosen even with no god in the deck, that 4/2 divine shield for 4 is super annoying to deal with.

Tyops wrote:

Not surprised to see Master of Evolution isnt making the cut for you. I was playing it for a while before the new season started and it was pretty underwhelming. Also there has to be something better to run than Azure drake, you have only one spell (the storms) that benefit from the spell power... and a 4/4 for 5 that cycles isnt really mindblowing. Seriously thinking about C'Tun's Chosen even with no god in the deck, that 4/2 divine shield for 4 is super annoying to deal with.

I had Master in there as a 1-of and still didn't like him. Just not enough of a board impact. It's basically a heal. Why not run Earthen Ring Farseer at that point?

C'Thun's Chosen is awesome. That and "C'Thun's Toast" (the 2/1 that pings for 2) are the best neutral C'Thun cards (aside from Twin Emps obv). I've thought the same thing. It's a little risky with so much Shaman/Zoo out there that can ping off the shield easily. However, it's awesome when paired with a Flametongue.

Midrange Shaman just needs some card draw and a single Mana Tide is just not enough. Azure Drake is the best option in my experience. Haven't regretted the tech yet. Also, you're usually not using the Lightning Storms until later on as your deck is able to fight for board early almost every game (and the 2 Overload on LS is brutal in the early game). So Drake+Lightning Storm happens more often than you'd expect and it's back-breaking for your opponent.

_Free_ wrote:

If C'Thun Druid is a Tier 1 meta deck when the meta settles, I'll eat my shoes. It's not that good, guys. It's just really straightforward, so you don't need to "master" it.

I've played a lot in the last week. The Tier 1 decks are: Control Paladin (N'Zoth), Warlock Zoo, Midrange/Aggro Shaman, and Miracle Rogue.

Last week I was lukewarm on Shaman. I put a lot of time into crafting/testing (Shaman is one of the only heroes I don't have golden yet) and it's straight bonkers with the right list. If any deck becomes meta-defining (like Beta Miracle, Undertaker, Patron, Secret Paladin were), it's gonna some variant of that midrangey Shaman deck.

C'Thun decks will be viable, but not meta-defining and certainly not OP. If any control deck becomes OP, it'll be some N'Zoth variant.

I think Control Warrior is in a good place as well. It's very well positioned against the Zoo, Shaman, and Rogue decks I think. (Paladin probably has the advantage, but Brawl is basically the only tool that works on a N'Zoth board.)

EDIT: and it has very good survivability against C'Thun. (So does Paladin.) It's easy to build up enough armor that you can take C'Thun on the face, and it's easy to fit in BGH and save it for C'Thun (you pretty much always see C'Thun coming). There's still a ton of C'Thun out there.

_Free_ wrote:

C'Thun's Chosen is awesome. That and "C'Thun's Toast" (the 2/1 that pings for 2) are the best neutral C'Thun cards (aside from Twin Emps obv). I've thought the same thing. It's a little risky with so much Shaman/Zoo out there that can ping off the shield easily. However, it's awesome when paired with a Flametongue.

I'll be trying the 2/1 C'Tun Disciple that pings for 2 as a replacement for Argent Horserider in aggro shaman I think. Not sure yet. You give up combos with abusive/biter for the ability to ping the board/face when there are taunts.

_Free_ wrote:

Midrange Shaman just needs some card draw and a single Mana Tide is just not enough. Azure Drake is the best option in my experience. Haven't regretted the tech yet. Also, you're usually not using the Lightning Storms until later on as your deck is able to fight for board early almost every game (and the 2 Overload on LS is brutal in the early game). So Drake+Lightning Storm happens more often than you'd expect and it's back-breaking for your opponent.

Id' be tempted to try the new hammer (Hammer of Twilight) in that Azure slot. I'd also give some thought to Argus, Gormok, Spellbreaker, or Harrison (maybe sylvanas if you're wiling to swap a 5 for a 6). really depends how the meta shakes out.

Anyone else tried out tempo mage? I'm finding it quite difficult in the new meta, despite being my best deck beforehand. Meta is much slower and it's harder to win out before running out of steam, and it's less consistent against aggro decks. Losing Mad Scientist really hurts it - it's relying a lot more on spell power and spell damage than secrets, and that becomes a lot less consistent.

Bums me out because I really wanted Mage to be my first golden class (200/500 wins baby!) But I'm not sure it will be competitive enough. Maybe it's time to burn some dust and try freeze mage.

Also, how are people finding Arena? I was also doing pretty well pre WOTG, but am struggling a lot more now despite it supposedly being "soft" (I guess that makes me the "soft" part, lol).

Dysplastic wrote:

Bums me out because I really wanted Mage to be my first golden class (200/500 wins baby!) But I'm not sure it will be competitive enough. Maybe it's time to burn some dust and try freeze mage.

Consider wild? Tempo mage is still completely a deck in wild.

I'm messing around with a couple tempo mage decklists. I'd say I've had moderate success but only at higher rankings so far. Went from 17 to 15 with this C'thun version today. It's light on C'thun cards but honestly I'm not even sure C'thun is worth it. I went with water elemental over C'thun's Chosen because all the Shaman/Warlock/Paladin aggro decks I've been against can trade too easily with Chosen. The extra early game with Beckoner of Evil and Disciple of C'thun has actually been quite nice and I'll probably try to get a similar curve with my non-C'thun version. I haven't even cast C'thun yet because the game is usually over before that but Twin Emperor has definitely won me some games. I'll probably keep playing with this one for a while then try out an Antonidas version minus all the C'thun stuff.

I pulled my first new legendary, a Xaril, so I made an anti-C'thun aggro deck.

It really works!

Just played against a right dick who would just play his turn quickly then wait until the turn timer ran out. Every turn. His name was AndreyZZZ. The triple Z should have tipped me off.

NormanTheIntern wrote:

I pulled my first new legendary, a Xaril, so I made an anti-C'thun aggro deck.

It really works!

Can you let us know what that is? Very curious how you make a deck specifically to counter the big baddie.

kergguz wrote:

Just played against a right dick who would just play his turn quickly then wait until the turn timer ran out. Every turn. His name was AndreyZZZ. The triple Z should have tipped me off.

I had one who let the timer run out then conceded when it was clear I wasn't going to after 3 turns.

Natus wrote:
NormanTheIntern wrote:

I pulled my first new legendary, a Xaril, so I made an anti-C'thun aggro deck.

It really works!

Can you let us know what that is? Very curious how you make a deck specifically to counter the big baddie.

Oh, it's just an aggro deck to kill the other guy before turn 10. Off the top of my head: loot hoarder, argent squire, cold blood, deadly poison, bladed cultist, pit snake, defias ringleader, si:7 agent, xaril - and eviscerate, sap, vanish - lots of 1 drops you can combo with, let them re-summon their c'thun cards, etc. I haven't really faced c'thun priest or control warrior yet - I suspect either of those decks would wreck me.

grobstein wrote:
_Free_ wrote:

If C'Thun Druid is a Tier 1 meta deck when the meta settles, I'll eat my shoes. It's not that good, guys. It's just really straightforward, so you don't need to "master" it.

I've played a lot in the last week. The Tier 1 decks are: Control Paladin (N'Zoth), Warlock Zoo, Midrange/Aggro Shaman, and Miracle Rogue.

Last week I was lukewarm on Shaman. I put a lot of time into crafting/testing (Shaman is one of the only heroes I don't have golden yet) and it's straight bonkers with the right list. If any deck becomes meta-defining (like Beta Miracle, Undertaker, Patron, Secret Paladin were), it's gonna some variant of that midrangey Shaman deck.

C'Thun decks will be viable, but not meta-defining and certainly not OP. If any control deck becomes OP, it'll be some N'Zoth variant.

I think Control Warrior is in a good place as well. It's very well positioned against the Zoo, Shaman, and Rogue decks I think. (Paladin probably has the advantage, but Brawl is basically the only tool that works on a N'Zoth board.)

EDIT: and it has very good survivability against C'Thun. (So does Paladin.) It's easy to build up enough armor that you can take C'Thun on the face, and it's easy to fit in BGH and save it for C'Thun (you pretty much always see C'Thun coming). There's still a ton of C'Thun out there.

I agree, Warrior is in a way better spot than I would've anticipated after the loss of Death's Bite, which was arguably their best card. The ghoul really does a lot of work against all of the aggro decks out there, double brawl works wonders against N'Zoth paladins and, as you already said, the liberty to include a bgh is really a boon in the meta currently - there's almost no deck against which you won't get some value out of it.

NormanTheIntern wrote:

Oh, it's just an aggro deck to kill the other guy before turn 10. Off the top of my head: loot hoarder, argent squire, cold blood, deadly poison, bladed cultist, pit snake, defias ringleader, si:7 agent, xaril - and eviscerate, sap, vanish - lots of 1 drops you can combo with, let them re-summon their c'thun cards, etc. I haven't really faced c'thun priest or control warrior yet - I suspect either of those decks would wreck me.

I think the only "Anti-C'Thun" decks that I've seen that aren't just Aggro/Midrange decks that can end the game before turn 10 are based on control Priest builds (which are sometimes also C'Thun decks themselves).