Feminism/Sexism and Gaming/Geek/Popular culture Catch All

Edit - Nevermind. I can't spend the time today to do this justice.

I think they need to consider focus groups or something for strips that veer anywhere near this kind of stuff. It's obvious they now have no sense of where the line is between "mostly funny" and "mostly /headdesk" when it comes to anything remotely female-related.

I gave them the benefit of the doubt over the dickwolves debacle because I also used to be pretty oblivious to the whole rape culture thing, so I just chalked it up as a learning experience for Gabe and Jerry. I guess they didn't actually learn anything.

clover wrote:

I think they need to consider focus groups or something for strips that veer anywhere near this kind of stuff. It's obvious they now have no sense of where the line is between "mostly funny" and "mostly /headdesk" when it comes to anything remotely female-related.

This.

This is the kind of joke that they should've made to themselves in their office, laughed about it, and then moved on to write something else.

I get it, I've laughed at plenty of offensive jokes. But I wouldn't publicly publish them to millions of people.

Gabe tweeted a link when someone asked what he was talking about.

https://twitter.com/cwgabriel/status...

How that's suppose to be funny in any way, I don't know. Every time I consider going to PAX, PA reminds me why I shouldn't.

Mystic Violet wrote:
momgamer wrote:

They're trying to make fun of this.

But, heck, I don't know....

Yup, Gabe even tweeted that when someone asked what he was talking about.

https://twitter.com/cwgabriel/status...

How that's suppose to be funny in any way, I don't know. Every time I consider going to PAX, PA reminds me why I shouldn't.

Come to non-PAX things!

clover wrote:
Mystic Violet wrote:
momgamer wrote:

They're trying to make fun of this.

But, heck, I don't know....

Yup, Gabe even tweeted that when someone asked what he was talking about.

https://twitter.com/cwgabriel/status...

How that's suppose to be funny in any way, I don't know. Every time I consider going to PAX, PA reminds me why I shouldn't.

Come to non-PAX things! :D

I'm in the same boat. I love the community that shows up at PAX East; I've made some great friends over the years, but this coming one is probably going to be my last. I just feel slimy at the association.

Bloo Driver wrote:
Trachalio wrote:

It's mind boggling that they can do something as forward thinking as "no booth babes", but then make a comic that makes fun of women being sexually assaulted. Well, more specifically, making fun of women not wanting to be sexually assaulted.

I think it's fair game to make fun of the video itself without saying they're making fun of the problem it addresses. Personally, I found the original video somewhat condescending, not nearly as clever as it thought it was being, and overall irritating. That doesn't mean I see sexual assault the same way.

I concur. I think there are a lot of really dumb elements to various 'awareness' campaigns out there that are ripe for satire and mockery. Just like I can think certain volunteer/charity groups are freaking awful while not being in favor of poverty/animal abuse/whatever.

clover wrote:

Mike and Jerry are a walking definition of "tone-deaf" at this point. Should be morbidly entertaining.

It's like they just want to kick the hornet's nest at this point... I don't think there's actually a joke in the comic (even by the already questionable Penny Arcade standards of "joke"). What are they even thinking?

I hope that most of the folks who are reacting negatively to this or the Dick Wolves avoid seeing The Aristocrats, and also actively avoid Seth McFarlane cartoons.

KingGorilla wrote:

I hope that most of the folks who are reacting negatively to this or the Dick Wolves avoid seeing The Aristocrats, and also actively avoid Seth McFarlane cartoons.

They most likely do.

Why are you automatically assuming they are hypocrites?

KingGorilla wrote:

I hope that most of the folks who are reacting negatively to this or the Dick Wolves avoid seeing The Aristocrats, and also actively avoid Seth McFarlane cartoons.

I think a lot of it was negative reaction to the PA reaction to the negative reaction. Personally, I thought the actual comic was hilarious. I thought the defense of that comic was what was terrible.

SixteenBlue wrote:
KingGorilla wrote:

I hope that most of the folks who are reacting negatively to this or the Dick Wolves avoid seeing The Aristocrats, and also actively avoid Seth McFarlane cartoons.

They most likely do.

Why are you automatically assuming they are hypocrites?

We're just getting overemotional about nothing.

I am not. Just it makes me feel weird when people take comedy this seriously. It is so subjective. Patton Oswalt does a good bit on it in his latest album. All comedy seeks to do is make someone else laugh, that is it. If it does that then it worked, regardless of who thinks otherwise. It is one of the few things you can never do wrong, so long as at least one person is laughing.

As an MMO player, I thought dick wolves was hilarious.

KingGorilla wrote:

I am not. Just it makes me feel weird when people take comedy this seriously. It is so subjective. Patton Oswalt does a good bit on it in his latest album. All comedy seeks to do is make someone else laugh, that is it. If it does that then it worked, regardless of who thinks otherwise.

When Tosh called for an audience member to be raped, people rallied to his defense with this same argument - "guys, it's just comedy, it's all subjective".

KingGorilla wrote:

I am not. Just it makes me feel weird when people take comedy this seriously. It is so subjective. Patton Oswalt does a good bit on it in his latest album. All comedy seeks to do is make someone else laugh, that is it. If it does that then it worked, regardless of who thinks otherwise.

Sadly, what people seek to do and what they actually do aren't the same. The outrage is often not over their intent but their actual actions.

Edit: Also, you are. Why would you even bring it up? You're testing the merits of their argument by questioning their other behavior.

Eh. Just like the dickwolves comic, I thought it was completely tasteless. And funny. But jokes that touchy probably shouldn't get center stage because they don't adhere to the hierarchy of comedy (only make fun of your own demographic, or one less oppressed than yours).

And PA always doubles down on the stupid when people get pissed about something they wrote. It's like watching someone repeatedly stick their hand in a running blender.

Only nine steps into the Plains of Straw Men and the Valley of False Equivalence this time.

Our marching speed is definitely improving.

This is not the post you are looking for.

KingGorilla wrote:

I am not. Just it makes me feel weird when people take comedy this seriously. It is so subjective. Patton Oswalt does a good bit on it in his latest album. All comedy seeks to do is make someone else laugh, that is it. If it does that then it worked, regardless of who thinks otherwise. It is one of the few things you can never do wrong, so long as at least one person is laughing.

As an MMO player, I thought dick wolves was hilarious.

You're completely ignoring the context here. The dickwolves comic itself wasn't a big deal, the real controversy happened afterwards when PA dismissively responded to anyone who objected to it, and mocked the idea of "rape culture". Similarly, a comic about fingers in buttholes isn't inherently offensive - but when the comic is intended to mock a video about creepy behaviour at conventions, which is a real problem, then its not too surprising that some people might be offended.

Not a big fan of the dude bro frat guy comedy. Pretty sure those guys sent Chapelle to the sanitarium.

And it is not so much defending, as maybe pointing out efforts could be better placed when it comes to sexual harassment and sexual violence aside from trolling twitter.

No I am pretty sure I get the context. Comic is made (or joke is written), people get mad and hit up e-mails, twitter, someone blogs about it, comic writer or comedian fires back some troll bait, ...profit?

Just don't look.

Why not lay some light and outrage here? Or here?

See, I can watch The Aristocats and laugh 'cause it's so completely and utterly over the top. And, as people said before, the dickwolves comic wasn't the issue (it was kinda funny to me too), it's how the crew at Penny Arcade dismissed anyone who disagreed with them afterwards.

With this situation, instead of making fun of sexual assault, they could have made fun of the video and still let people know that it's NOT OK to touch people who don't want to be touched. Instead they basically said "go ahead, touch anyone that you think is dressing provocatively. It's obvious they want it".

KingGorilla wrote:

Why not lay some light and outrage here? Or here?

You don't think people have been outraged about those? Both have gotten discussion here too.

KingGorilla wrote:

Why not lay some light and outrage here? Or here?

What makes you think the people upset about this comic aren't also upset about these?

The existence of other, even worse problems does not mean that you can't get mad about this problem.

Trachalio wrote:

With this situation, instead of making fun of sexual assault, they could have made fun of the video and still let people know that it's NOT OK to touch people who don't want to be touched. Instead they basically said "go ahead, touch anyone that you think is dressing provocatively. It's obvious they want it". :|

I think it's actually very difficult to logically think that this was the message of the comic. I understand people saying it's offensive to make light of the problem, but anyone who thinks the underlying message is as above is either themselves tone-deaf to satire, or being purposefully obtuse to press a point.

clover wrote:

Eh. Just like the dickwolves comic, I thought it was completely tasteless. And funny. But jokes that touchy probably shouldn't get center stage because they don't adhere to the hierarchy of comedy (only make fun of your own demographic, or one less oppressed than yours).

Well, I didn't think this was funny, which is why I find it especially perplexing. When you have to explain your joke, you've maybe missed the mark (note: I've had this happen a lot with PA, so it could just be I'm not the target demographic anyway).

Anyhow, I don't have any personal stake in what kind of comedy these guys want to do, but I'm sure surprised to see them go back to the well after the vitriol they pulled up last time.

There are children starving in Asia. Why does this thread even exist?

KingGorilla wrote:

No I am pretty sure I get the context. Comic is made (or joke is written), people get mad and hit up e-mails, twitter, someone blogs about it, comic writer or comedian fires back some troll bait, ...profit?

Just don't look.

Why not lay some light and outrage here?

Because that comic (and other unfortunate actions taken by PA) encourages a culture where sexual harassment and rape are trivialized, which helps enable the very crap that you're linking to.

Both are worthy of outrage. And you know what's great about the internet? Outrage is never in short supply! Thus, we're more than capable, collectively, of heaping scorn upon both of them.

Can we get a BINGO card up in here?