Feminism/Sexism and Gaming/Geek/Popular culture Catch All

Hypatian wrote:

Now, here's the thing: It is not at all inappropriate for someone to make the criticism that Girls doesn't address race, because it doesn't.

I don't want to spoil it for you, but it actually does address race in a way that is *very* rare to see. People assumed that because they only saw white people that the issue of race was going unaddressed. The issue of race--especially the intersectional nature of race and class--is a major theme of the show. It's just not dealt with as explicitly as, say, the the politics of the female body and the boobs of bnery chubbbby fchicks.

CheezePavilion wrote:

bnery chubbbby fchicks.

Shalalm Baskur, indeed.

A while back we had a conversation about why Activision changed the main character in what became Sleeping Dogs into a guy, and someone asked if Activision had any "proof" to the notion that female lead characters hurt sales and I couldn't find a good example I could share? Well, here's one that just came out:

http://www.gameranx.com/features/id/...

Thanks momgamer. That's an interesting read. Like the article author I'm not too sure how strong the link is between box art and game sales, but I'm sure there is an effect.

Just as a random sidenote, i'm sad to see Assassin's Creed: Liberation getting pretty "meh" reviews across the board. I hear she appears in ACIII, but I was hoping it'd be a little better, since I'm willing to say that Ubisoft is the only major publisher out there willing to put a female, minority lead as their protagonist and try to make her well written as well.

Other than Valve.

MrDeVil909 wrote:

Thanks momgamer. That's an interesting read. Like the article author I'm not too sure how strong the link is between box art and game sales, but I'm sure there is an effect.

This. Thanks for posting the article. But there's pretty clearly other factors at play -- such as the fact that games in the most popular genres (FPS) are the most likely to have aggressive men on the cover. I imagine the link might be the other way around -- instead of box art with men improving sales and box art with women decreasing sales, it could be that games that sell well are more likely to be in genres that tend to feature men on the cover. If that makes any sense. It's a good study to do though, and it unfortunately wouldn't surprise me if some gamers were less likely to buy a game that features a woman on the box

Demyx wrote:

I imagine the link might be the other way around -- instead of box art with men improving sales and box art with women decreasing sales, it could be that games that sell well are more likely to be in genres that tend to feature men on the cover.

It hard to really get meaningful conclusions from a study like this, simply because of sample bias.

Anita Sarkeesian wrote:

I will be sending all of our backers a special video update detailing our ongoing progress on the series very soon so keep an eye out for that! In the meantime check out this TV segment about the project that aired last night on Canada’s Global News.

I was interviewed about my experience and the wider epidemic of harassment women face in gaming spaces. Also interviewed for the segment were Grace from the website Fat, Ugly or Slutty, Brenda Bailey Gershkovitch founder of game studio Silicone Sisters Interactive & James Portnow from the gaming web show Extra Credits.

I have selectively chosen to do media interviews like this one because I feel it’s important to use the opportunity to highlight the extreme levels of harassment many women face when gaming. While it does take some time away from working on my Tropes vs Women project (and also makes me more of a target), I hope that by telling my story in the media it will spark wider awareness of this critical issue and ultimately be a small part of moving in the direction of systemic change in the community and in the industry.

Stay tuned for more updates soon!

And in a shocking new development the comments are filled with little boys angry that she hasn't gone away yet.

I also absolutely love how one of the angry rantings about her now is how she is using their hate spewing for PR.

FedoraMcQuaid wrote:

And in a shocking new development the comments are filled with little boys angry that she hasn't gone away yet.

I also absolutely love how one of the angry rantings about her now is how she is using their hate spewing for PR.

Viruses tend to get pretty upset when you use them to make vaccines.

IMAGE(http://truth-out.org/images/061212ld_.jpg)

I saw that last night and it made me so happy.

Spoiler:

I have 2 daughters.

SallyNasty wrote:

I saw that last night and it made me so happy.

Spoiler:

I have 2 daughters.

That is pretty awesome.

My daughter was five when Wind Waker came out. My wife and I played through it and let Jordan read the text of the story as we went along. It really slowed the pace down, but she absolutely adored the story. I think it had a really positive effect on her going forward. It not only helped develop her reading skills, it really helped drive home the idea of reading epic stories.

I think she would approve of a female Link, but Tetra provided plenty of balance in the scheme of things. She absolutely seeks out strong female leads whenever possible.

While not the protagonist. Zelda games have gotten pretty good with their female characters. They are not just damsels in distress in the castle. Princess Zelda was actually pretty Bad Ass in Ocarina of Time.

Ok hivemind. Watch this:

Apparently this commercial is getting pushback from people who are complaining that it's sexist.

(Yes, the pushback is on Twitter, and to be quite frank I consider everything said on Twitter to be useless garbage)

But am I missing something here? Other than the fact that the mother is very pretty and blonde, it's portraying a hardworking, confident woman almost singlehandedly making Christmas happen. In what way does this paint her in a negative light?

I think it's the singlehandedly part, where no one else seems to be helping AT ALL.

Seth wrote:

Ok hivemind. Watch this:

Apparently this commercial is getting pushback from people who are complaining that it's sexist.

(Yes, the pushback is on Twitter, and to be quite frank I consider everything said on Twitter to be useless garbage)

But am I missing something here? Other than the fact that the mother is very pretty and blonde, it's portraying a hardworking, confident woman almost singlehandedly making Christmas happen. In what way does this paint her in a negative light?

Well, she has a partner. But she's the only one making it happen. It does kind of send a "this is the woman's job" message.

Or more simply put, it says behind every great christmas is a mom, not a parent.

But I do agree with you, it sends positive messages as well. Not sure if this is the best battle for this war.

Seth wrote:

Ok hivemind. Watch this:

Apparently this commercial is getting pushback from people who are complaining that it's sexist.

(Yes, the pushback is on Twitter, and to be quite frank I consider everything said on Twitter to be useless garbage)

But am I missing something here? Other than the fact that the mother is very pretty and blonde, it's portraying a hardworking, confident woman almost singlehandedly making Christmas happen. In what way does this paint her in a negative light?

Stuff like this is where the intersection between sexism and reality collides, isn't it? I mean, demographically, who does the more of the Christmas shopping at Asda (big supermarket chain in the UK that was bought out by Walmart a few years back)? Is it Moms or Dads?

While it plays to gender stereotypes, it's also Asda targeting their marketing at their actual customers, isn't it?

Jonman wrote:

Stuff like this is where the intersection between sexism and reality collides, isn't it? I mean, demographically, who does the more of the Christmas shopping at Asda (big supermarket chain in the UK that was bought out by Walmart a few years back)? Is it Moms or Dads?

While it plays to gender stereotypes, it's also Asda targeting their marketing at their actual customers, isn't it?

You can target both. Say behind every Christmas is a parent and show clips of 2 different scenarios, one's a dad and one's a mom. Problem solved, everyone is targeted without playing to gender stereotypes.

Jonman wrote:

Stuff like this is where the intersection between sexism and reality collides, isn't it? I mean, demographically, who does the more of the Christmas shopping at Asda (big supermarket chain in the UK that was bought out by Walmart a few years back)? Is it Moms or Dads?

While it plays to gender stereotypes, it's also Asda targeting their marketing at their actual customers, isn't it?

This was my take on it well. It's not sexism to advertise to your customers, especially when you are portraying your customers in a positive light. The guy in this may be maligned a bit (although anecdotally, he's doing about as much as I remember patriarchs doing for Christmas), but even then it's done in a positive (or perhaps neutral) manner.

SixteenBlue wrote:
Jonman wrote:

Stuff like this is where the intersection between sexism and reality collides, isn't it? I mean, demographically, who does the more of the Christmas shopping at Asda (big supermarket chain in the UK that was bought out by Walmart a few years back)? Is it Moms or Dads?

While it plays to gender stereotypes, it's also Asda targeting their marketing at their actual customers, isn't it?

You can target both. Say behind every Christmas is a parent and show clips of 2 different scenarios, one's a dad and one's a mom. Problem solved, everyone is targeted without playing to gender stereotypes.

But men don't shop at asda. Statistically, 80% of their customers are women. Why waste advertising dollars saying something that, from Asda's perspective, isn't true, while simultaneously risking insulting the women who do shop there, and know damn well their spouses don't?

My google fu for "The Hardest JobOn Earth" is turning up a lot on motherhood, and crab fishing. Even Opra, never married and never having kids, says so.

Seth wrote:
SixteenBlue wrote:
Jonman wrote:

Stuff like this is where the intersection between sexism and reality collides, isn't it? I mean, demographically, who does the more of the Christmas shopping at Asda (big supermarket chain in the UK that was bought out by Walmart a few years back)? Is it Moms or Dads?

While it plays to gender stereotypes, it's also Asda targeting their marketing at their actual customers, isn't it?

You can target both. Say behind every Christmas is a parent and show clips of 2 different scenarios, one's a dad and one's a mom. Problem solved, everyone is targeted without playing to gender stereotypes.

But men don't shop at asda. Statistically, 80% of their customers are women. Why waste advertising dollars saying something that, from Asda's perspective, isn't true, while simultaneously risking insulting the women who do shop there, and know damn well their spouses don't?

Are you saying there are never any men in the grocery store? Then who hit on me last night at Safeway!? (note lack of smiley - I had to go home and take a shower)

All they'd have to do is intersperse pictures of the guy hanging lights or actually making himself useful in other ways as part of the whole thing. Or they could really go for the gold with images of them blissfully shopping together and then images of her cooking, with a couple showing him helping out with that as well. Done well, it could be an even more powerful message.

Not to mention if a store advertisement implied it was such a great place to shop it would get my S.O. off the couch I bet women would practically camp there.

Yellek wrote:

I think it's the singlehandedly part, where no one else seems to be helping AT ALL.

That's what I got out of it. Look at dad's face when they're together. It has "I couldn't care less" written all over it. Everyone wants Christmas to happen, no one wants to do anything to make it happen but mom. Mom needs to stand up for herself.

Mom: "That way. To the left."

Dad: *eyeroll*

Mom: "You don't want to help? Fine. Then you can go upstairs and explain to your children why they won't have a freakin' tree this year."

Dad: "...... Oh! How about over here?!"

Mom: "Perfect!"

Good points, momgamer. That would've made things more palatable for everyone, I think.

That sucks about your experience at the store. I have yet to understand the motivations of those who try to start relationships while participating in a fairly involved task, like grocery shopping.

Why would you only want to advertise to the customers you already get? If 80% of your customers are women and your actual product has nothing to do with women, why would you want to leave that giant demographic untargeted?

SixteenBlue wrote:

Why would you only want to advertise to the customers you already get? If 80% of your customers are women and your actual product has nothing to do with women, why would you want to leave that giant demographic untargeted?

The bottom line is that stereotypes exist for a reason (something I've said on this forum probably 100 times). Who cares if their product has nothing to do with women? Women shop at asda, so target them.

Advertisers make ads for lots of reasons. One of them is convincing a new demographic that doesn't currently buy its product to...buy its product. Subway did this by showing fans of toasted subs that they started toasting their subs, too. Another reason is to retain the customers one already has. McDonald's is doing this with their more expensive sandwiches because they are losing market share to Qdoba, Panera, and 5 Guys. Asda's ad guys are clearly using a reason similar to the second one I just described.

Seth wrote:
SixteenBlue wrote:

Why would you only want to advertise to the customers you already get? If 80% of your customers are women and your actual product has nothing to do with women, why would you want to leave that giant demographic untargeted?

The bottom line is that stereotypes exist for a reason (something I've said on this forum probably 100 times). Who cares if their product has nothing to do with women? Women shop at asda, so target them.

Advertisers make ads for lots of reasons. One of them is convincing a new demographic that doesn't currently buy its product to...buy its product. Subway did this by showing fans of toasted subs that they started toasting their subs, too. Another reason is to retain the customers one already has. McDonald's is doing this with their more expensive sandwiches because they are losing market share to Qdoba, Panera, and 5 Guys. Asda's ad guys are clearly using a reason similar to the second one I just described.

You know, that's totally fair. It is just one ad. If every Asda ad is like that, I'd have a more compelling argument. Knowing nothing about them, I can't really say if that's the case or not, obviously.

That said, I don't buy the "stereotypes exist for a reason" argument as justification for continuing to reinforce stereotypes. Lots of things exist for a reason and I'd still like them to go away. I don't really see what that line of thinking accomplishes.

SixteenBlue wrote:

That said, I don't buy the "stereotypes exist for a reason" argument as justification for continuing to reinforce stereotypes. Lots of things exist for a reason and I'd still like them to go away. I don't really see what that line of thinking accomplishes.

This is definitely where we agree. Where I get ruffled is when negative stereotypes are applied to sell products for any reason, other than perhaps pointing out that there's always exceptions.

Positive stereotypes, like a hardworking woman using Asda to pull off Christmas? I have a harder time calling those out, hence my curiosity. I know that positive stereotypes can be equally harmful (women are nurterers [and should stay at home]! Women are detail oriented [and are therefore good at cleaning]!), though. So I wanted to get opinions from people.

My apologies if it sounded like I was snapping. This work day became much more stressful than I anticipated about 45 minutes ago, and I may have let that bleed into my post.